Joel Hruska said:
I’m experimenting with renoise options at the moment, to see how they impact things. Also, yes, trying to calibrate the proper amount of processing and denoising to do in the front-end before letting an AI program have a go at it. Some AI models include denoising that works effectively but I’d rather not have to use them in the first place.
My opinion: Better choice. Because it will kill details rather than create “new ones”, if you let the AI denoise. Just my experience, there may be other scenarios. Renoising - to say it again - is best if you use the original noise. This is not common practice, by the way. Mostly they use some more or less random algorithms, as you surely know.
It’s not the FX scenes that are automatically in 29.97. In fact, in the first season, at least some episodes are basically 100% film. I don’t know when this stops. In others, like Sacrifice of Angels, most of the battle scenes are 23.976 fps, though there’s one post-credits scene that has preserved incidents of 3:2 pulldown in a 29.97 fps stream. That one threw me for awhile, trying to figure out how that could happen. Baked-in source error is awesome.
So there ARE pulldowned 23.976 and native 29.97 scenes, right? Just this fact makes it A LOT harder to deal with the NTSC sources instead of PAL, if you finally want
-progressive (to use with AI)
-stutter-free
results.
In addition the PAL sources have less aliasing. So two very strong reasons to use PAL as sources.
And are there also scenes where they overlayed both? Am I right with this speculation? We had this in a series I worked at a few years ago, also SciFi, made about the same time as DS9, a bit earlier. The overlayed scenes are definitely not stutter-free, and there is no way to IVTC it 100% correctly.
We handled, by the way, the native 29.97 scenes different from the well IVTCed 23.976-scenes and had to convert it with Alchemist optical flow, which was the best option at that time (today also AI is somehow better in these cases…).
Sorry, but in screenshot 2 there is more aliasing than in 1. Look at the shoulder.
I’m not seeing it. I see one pattern that might be what you are talking about, but doesn’t come across as aliased when the actor is in motion:
The most left part with the light background. A big difference concerning “staircases”.
I don’t see why. I have access to the whole PAL show if I want it, but I also have episodes on-hand from S1 and S6. The PAL quality, as near as I can tell, is virtually identical to NTSC quality with the following differences:
Reasons are above. Of course, your decision.
1). Motion is intrinsically smoother and easier to deal with. NTSC can be brought back to PAL quality in this regard, but it’s taken me more work to do it.
I will have to check this once myself. I only read that IVTC seems complicated at doom9.
2). There’s a very slight color shift, at least in S6. Colors that are slightly more blue in NTSC are slightly more purple in PAL.
3). PAL is stretched slightly and just slightly blurrier by default. Compared this frame-by-frame in NTSC vs. PAL editions of S6.
4). PAL, of course, has the 4% audio shift.
These are of course no significant reasons to take the PAL sources, I agree.
Because I want to create a project for people to do at home with legal source, asking people to buy PAL is pretty tricky.
Come on… I do love this code of honour that people obey here, but the difference between PAL and NTSC sources of the same show is purely technical.
I want to write an article about the best way to deal with PAL
What do you mean by “deal with PAL”? To convert it (back) to NTSC? For me it’s no question, I am in PAL-country, for me the question always is “how to deal with NTSC”…