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MagnoliaFan Edits: Ep I "Balance Of The Force", and Ep II "The Clone War" (Released) — Page 11

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Mace has a Dope blade

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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What might have been neat would to have Mace's saber the traditional blue or green, and have Dooku's saber as purple. This would have done far more to underscore the "Is he Jedi or is he Sith?" question. George punked out to Sam L. when he made the blade purple, and as MF said it earlier in the thread, all bets were off at that point on saber color. The Red-saber/Sith connection never bothered me in Attack of the Clones, but the yellow-saber change MF did was really cool too.

And though I'd have probably left in the final scene with Dooku and Sidious, showing them in allegiance as the final twist, MF deftly handled weaving out the entire subplot and making his notion of Dooku simply a rogue Jedi totally work.

MF, regarding this idea about Dooku and a purple saber, would that have addressed any of your issues with the red flashes any better? i.e. Would the purple have done more to hide the red than the yellow did? And again, I think the yellow saber with the red halo and flashes actually looked pretty bitchin' on the whole.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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I think Douku shoud have had a pure white lightsaber, and Mace Windu a Blue one.

The purple light saber would work better with a youngling or Aayla Secura. MagFan, If you're reading this, give her a purple lightsaber in your next version of TCW...

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I'd rather not have a purple saber at all if you take it from Mace.
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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Bald black guys don't use purple weapons.

Can you imagine Morpheous with purple guns?

OK. Bad example...

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Well, if he had a 'fro would you object?
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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Yeah, me too, I just meant that if you take purple away from Mace, it'd be silly just to give purple to someone else.
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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I still think this "yellow saber is good" idea is bunk. The focus on Dooku isn't "is he good or is he bad." Almost the instant you are introduced to him, you KNOW he's bad. The Yellow Saber isn't throwing anyone off or adding to a nonexistent "mystery" about Dooku's allegiance. Hell, Jango calls him "Tyranus" earlier in the flick. There's really no point in trying to make that situation more ambiguous for the sake of..for the sake of what, I don't know. Turning Dooku into an "Is he or isn't he" character doesn't actually ADD anything to the story. It SOUNDS like it does, but in practice--it doesn't change a thing. At all. The yellow saber cannot be counted on to carry the kind of dramatic weight you guys say it's carrying. it's just a weapon. Changing it from red to yellow is ineffectual at best.
The Best Show You've Never Heard
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Hey AdigitalMan, how exactly do you acess the subtitles on a DVD folder file?

I am thinking about purchasing a DVD burner and wouldn't mind changing some of the subtitles (tastefully, and only slightly of course).
Like correcting a few minor type-os, changing the "oh shit!" to "help me!", etc.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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The name "Tyrannus" is never said in TCW.


I know, but that wasn't the point of my post, now was it? I was referring to "Attack of the Clones," events, not your re-edit. Basically, by re-editing it, you're saying you're trying to amp up the sense of "mystery" surrounding Dooku. I'm saying that by looking at what's there in "Clones" --the "mystery" surrounding Dooku isn't really a mystery at all, and nor was it meant to be, so editing to amplify something that isn't really in the story in the first place isn't helping. You're moving sideways. It's more of a distraction than an improvement. it SOUNDS like it should be helping, but it's more academic than anything. The execution of the idea is lacking, because it puts storytelling focus on the color of a weapon, and that's just bad storytelling. the color of the saber is a supporting detail, not a focal point. Dooku is bad in Attack of the Clones. Padme names him off the bat. Fett coughs up "Tyranus." His first entrance into the film and he's drawing up war plans with the separatists. His first exchange with a character and it's a threatening, slimy, blackmailing one. And then he sentences two jedi and a senator to death, and engages his forces in battle against the Jedi, and ensures that the plans for a PLANET KILLING WEAPON are safely carried to fruition--all this before he pulls a lightsaber. Do you really think his character's allegiance is REALLY meant to be in question at any point of the movie? And do you really think a yellow lightsaber and the removal of his Sith name changes any of that? It doesn't make the character ambiguous, it just needlessly neuters the full force of his character's impact. It SOUNDS like it'd add to an "is he or isn't he" vibe, but it doesn't at all. Because we know he IS a bad guy by then--so why not have him be a sith? Why not have his saber red? What's the point? there's no mystery to enhance by that point.

The main mystery of Attack of the Clones, believe it or not--is "who's trying to kill Padme." Not "is Dooku a sith or not." The secondary mystery is "who ordered these clones," which springs directly from "who's trying to kill Padme?" never is any of the storytelling focus on "Is Dooku a Sith? is Dooku really a bad guy or a misled guy?" so trying to amplify something that's not even there isn't working. For me. At least.

The Best Show You've Never Heard
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I can't pass final judgement, since I've not seen clone wars.

But Bizzles logic certainly makes sense. If I were editing, the only thing I would remove from AoTC was some of the stupid romance dialogue and the awful one-liners. "Blast. This is why I hate flying."

Besides, Yoda says "The dark side I sense in you,"
So that pretty much confirms he's a Sith reguardless of whether you remove the "War has begun" scene.

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MF points out what I thought everybody realized in his edit. The entire subplot of Dooku as Palp's Apprentice (and therefore a sith) was entirely woven out. Not just the yellow lightsaber and final scene on Coruscant, but also the dialogue between Jango and Obi-Wan. He did a very careful job with this. What I was getting at was an alternate take (based on a really missed opportunity on Lucas' part) where the Sith relationship would be revealed, perhaps in Episode III (where it will inevitably be revealed) and have Dooku with a purple saber instead of Mace. The purple would have been derived from using one blue crystal and one red crystal, if you know your lore on Lightsaber construction. Having Mace with purple denotes him having more of a Sith connection, which isn't who the character is.

As MF's edit stands, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the yellow saber. It works because he did a top-notch editing job on the plot points surrounding the color change.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Bravo, AdigitalMan. That's exactly what I was thinking.

Also, how exactly do you edit the subtitles on a DVD like you did? I was thinking about modifying a few tiny aspects of the subtitles since I may be purchasing a DVD burner soon.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Originally posted by: Hal 9000Hey AdigitalMan, how exactly do you acess the subtitles on a DVD folder file?

I am thinking about purchasing a DVD burner and wouldn't mind changing some of the subtitles (tastefully, and only slightly of course).
Like correcting a few minor type-os, changing the "oh shit!" to "help me!", etc.


In short:
I used DVDDecrypter to rip the disc into its individual streams. File splitting was turned off, so the video was one big file and the audio was one big file. Made re-synching a non-issue.

Then I ripped MF's original subtitles (from the original DVD, not from the Demuxed streams) using SubRip and converted to a text format using the OCR utiltity. This was perhaps the most tedious process, but I got them in okay on a few passes, after several hours of trying. Skip this step because I've saved you all the time and effort by saving the file, as noted further down in this response.

I then used Subtitle Workshop to make the edits and to create a format that DVD Lab Pro could import. I added then used said tool to import the video file, the audio file, and now the two subtitle files. I then exported the movie project, burned it to a re-recordable to test, and after testing went OK, burned it to a recordable for archiving.

I ditched the original menu simply because I didn't know how to make the menu select subtitles. Instead, I just added a subtitle note in the first few seconds (during MF's title card) stating that this was my edit, the date (for version control purposes in case I update the file down the road) and that MF's original subs were on stream 2. You can select them with the subtitle button.

The entire compilation sans-menu was about 4.28 GB, which leaves room for more subtitle files to be added by additional editors who care to do so.

To save you all the SubRip and Subtitle Workshop steps, I've saved the text based SRT files which will import into DVD-Lab pro. Feel free to update them using the text editor of your choice, then re-mux into a project of your own.

You can download MF's Original Subtitles and my version and edit to your heart's content.

May the force be with youse.

Citing my sources: I used a combination of tools and methods based largely on this guide and this other guide and then customized them as the project and my instincts dictated.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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OK, I lied. I already finished my alterations to the subtitle file above.

Now how exactly do I re-integrate it into the DVD file? Preferably as the automatic subtitle option, with the original MagnoliaFan subtitles as option number two that you can alternate to with remote control.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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The entire subplot of Dooku as Palp's Apprentice (and therefore a sith) was entirely woven out.


I know. What I'm arguing is that it didnt' actually accomplish anything more interesting than if it was left alone. It ends up being a change for change's sake, because it doesn't actually affect the storytelling positively at all.
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I (and most of the people I've shown TCW to) found Dooku's character change from a lying, manipulative, Sidious subsidiary to a rogue Jedi who has learned the terrible truth of what's really going on in the galaxy and is doing what he thinks is best to correct it, a superior take on the character. Not to mention it eliminates the rather questionable actions on Dooku's part if he was in fact a Sith, such as his conversation with Obi-Wan and his confusion over the Republic Army with the Geonosians. As cool as the ending scene is with Sidious and Tyranus, the plot is far better without it.
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Originally posted by: Hal 9000
OK, I lied. I already finished my alterations to the subtitle file above.

Now how exactly do I re-integrate it into the DVD file? Preferably as the automatic subtitle option, with the original MagnoliaFan subtitles as option number two that you can alternate to with remote control.


DVD-Lab Pro. You can get a 30-day demo from the link above. It'll let you integrate several subtitle streams, set the font (I used Arial Narrow with outline, can't remember the size) and you'll want to play with that for certain so your lines break when and where you want them.

You can create the project and preview it on your computer with something like PowerDVD v. 5.x or later without burning to a disc.

Welcome to this brave new world, Hal. Post your subtitles sometime. I'd love to see them.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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That sounds great. I will copy the DVD to my hard drive, give this a try (contrary to what Yoda might tell you), and eventually burn it when I have the equipment.
I have to go right now, but I'll post my take on the subtitles later today.

Thanks, (Digital)man!

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Good job. Some interesting choices in your version. You restored a few bits of the original dialogue, not unlike me, but in different places. An interesting blend of the original, MF's titles, my titles, and what appears to be some of your own ideas too. That's what I like most of all.

"Come on, I did lead you here." I like the way this particular line was handled. I can't even remember, was this an original line, or was this out of the head of HAL9000? Well handled in either case. This is one difference from both MF's and my versions that I unquestionably like better. I may re-mux the disc and add your subtitles in as an option as well. Might even crib some of your ideas for an update to my version. No time soon, but I'll hang onto this file for the next round.

By the way, there are some upper-case "I"s that got changed to lower case "L"s in my OCR process. Take a critical comb-through as I saw some stragglers in there. Sorry about that.

One more thing, you may want to add in an opening subtitle like in mine, that claims credit for the stream and, if necessary, tells where the other streams are.

Good job!
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.