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The Matrix - Laserdisc Preservation opportunity - "Help Needed"

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 (Edited)

Hi everyone, there is currently an auction on eBay for an extremely rare Laserdisc of The Matrix. This version of the Matrix is essentially the same master as the original VHS release and will have theatrical color timing (as well as an excellent 5.1 track). As of right now there is 14 hours left to bid.

I am looking for financial help to attain this LD and have it properly preserved. I have made arrangement for a member to do the capture and post-processing if we win the auction. I will, of course, pitch in for a majority of the cost. If you are willing to make a donation put in in the comments and I will keep a public list of donors.

Thanks! 😃

Update: I lost the auction at the last second, but not to worry, I’ll be saving towards purchasing the LD from lddb.

Pledges:
Me - $150 (subject to increase if needed)
williarob - $10
craigbillet - $10

Goal: $170/$300

The user formerly known as “Trillary Dump” (it was the 2016 election…)

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TomArrow said:

If this should go above 300 or so, you may as well just get it from lddb: https://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/shop/09271/17665/Matrix-The

Looks like it’s the same according to the cat number.

I’ll definitely keep that in mind, especially since it looks like the auction has over 30 watchers at the moment.

The user formerly known as “Trillary Dump” (it was the 2016 election…)

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Amazing how much that still goes for after all these years. The Hong King full frame LD never seems to turn up at all.

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Where were you in '77?

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The Matrix LD vs DVD

LaserDisc screenshots:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1KUf_JQYIaBWduPFP9l2ssI3Osf9CI9jv

Scandinavian 2006 DVD box set
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1f7p_J2mwao3v6Der972IgD1KAnJNeTXG

…and the color grading of BOTH is completely different to the original 35mm…
so save your money and forget the mess cause this is precisely one of the cases
where te DVD and the LD received altered transfers (some say the producers wanted it that way for the DVD)
https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=7944

BTW
The Matrix (1999) US LaserDisc PCM (17665) @ FanRes

MATRIX Formats Kung Fu fight scene VHS DVD BLU-RAY 4K ULTRA HD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PYOx-GS9y4

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craigbillet said:

I pledge $10!

Thanks! Noted.

The user formerly known as “Trillary Dump” (it was the 2016 election…)

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marin888 said:
…and the color grading of BOTH is completely different to the original 35mm…
so save your money and forget the mess cause this is precisely one of the cases
where te DVD and the LD received altered transfers (some say the producers wanted it that way for the DVD)
https://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=7944

That’s interesting. I’ve always heard that the LD for The Matrix was theatrically timed, but those screenshots say otherwise.

I would say that it would still be worth preserving the LD just so we have the LD’s color grade as well, but if the Scandinavian DVD is from the same master (which I think is what you’re implying), then it could be a decent idea to get that and sync it to the LD audio (that I didn’t even know got preserved)

The user formerly known as “Trillary Dump” (it was the 2016 election…)

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This post from the lddb is very relevant here and in general

It’s so funny how all people are complaining about “history revision” yet have no experience whatsoever in this business. I’m a film restorer and colorist. Here’s a little thing for you all to consider before you start yelling how inaccurate modern releases are:

During the 80s and 90s, most TV manufacturers (especially Sony with their Trinitron sets) had such terrible accuracy out of the box with major blue push. We do see this kind of torch mode today of course, but back then there was really not as much interest for consumers to calibrate their displays and as the movie studios have always been interested in making money, most films that appeared on home video and Laserdisc were to a certain point color timed to compensate for these inaccurate sets (hence red push was very common on masters in this era of time). This meant that pretty much every DVD you’ll find by MGM released prior to 2005 or such will have an overly reddish tone and all share the exact same characteristic. Only problem however is that most of these films had much more sophisticated color timings than what we saw on VHS and DVD yet people still take this for granted.

And this becomes extremely clear when you start to have a look at the physical films in an archive. Theatrical prints, even though they never tend to have much sharpness, are usually what we go after. And they rarely have much in common with an outdated VHS, Laserdisc or DVD. Of course we can still have a look at a home video release just for the sake of it, but we know that it has been going through way too many compromises to be used as a reference.

For instance, I had the chance to check out Thief on a Swedish 35mm print from the early 80s. I kept the new grade that’s used on the Criterion and Arrow releases (Director’s Cut only), as people have complained for years for it being inaccurate. Look at this comparison: http://www.caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=3606&d2=5422&s1=33376&s2=50607&i=6&l=0
And guess what? This scene was so cold and blue, even when only going through a photochemical process, that’s it’s not even debateable. The MGM was so off you wouldn’t believe it, while the restoration by Criterion keeps it all intact.

Many people complained about the Scanners Blu-Ray by Criterion yet relatively few (in contrast) seem to even have seen it. I’ve got the BD myself and have honestly no doubt that it’s an accurate presentation of the films intended look. The entire process was also supervised by David Cronenberg himself and from my experience, both directors and cinematagraphers tend to remember the color timings and gradings that were used for their films.

As a colorist at one the oldest film archives in the world, I have no intention in changing how the films I grade are supposed to look. I can do plenty of research before I settle down with my work, but sometimes you will have to take a chance if it’s unclear just how the film was really supposed to look. Then I will have to look at other factors that play in and try to make a decision from there, but I don’t go to Blu-Ray.com or this forum to ask for suggestions. I have a very difficult time believing that someone who hangs around there or at this place, who I don’t know through my job, would be of any help when I’m facing a problem like that.

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SilverWook said:

Amazing how much that still goes for after all these years. The Hong King full frame LD never seems to turn up at all.

I would love to see a decent version of The Matrix in Open Matte 4:3. The Russian TV broadcast with blu ray colors is fine, but that LD would be even better!

The user formerly known as “Trillary Dump” (it was the 2016 election…)

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Chewielewis said:

This post from the lddb is very relevant here and in general

That is interesting about old home video releases having their colors altered to make up for inaccurate TV sets. Would you still trust the 35mm scan that has been done over the LD in this case? I do know that a lot of people were saying that it is way to oversaturated and blown out (maybe it was unique to that specific print)

The user formerly known as “Trillary Dump” (it was the 2016 election…)

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trillary dump said:

Chewielewis said:

This post from the lddb is very relevant here and in general

That is interesting about old home video releases having their colors altered to make up for inaccurate TV sets. Would you still trust the 35mm scan that has been done over the LD in this case? I do know that a lot of people were saying that it is way to oversaturated and blown out (maybe it was unique to that specific print)

I wouldn’t trust the LD at all. It’s clear from the 35mm that the theatrical presentation bears no resemblance to the early home releases.

I’m trusting Bill Pope that the UHD is how it was supposed to look.

I think its clear that the 35mm theatrical presentation had so much extra processing in it that made it basically unusable for the home release.

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Just as an update, I got into contact with someone who has done their own capture of the Matrix on Laserdisc, and unfortunately it appears that the LD master is the EXACT same as the DVD, color grading and all (top DVD, bottom LD):





So there is no real point in doing another capture, since you can pay $2 for the DVD and call it a day. I would however like to shift focus on attempting to get the Hong Kong open matte LD (if the people who posted pledges are okay with that), which is definitely way harder to find but I’ll keep a lookout for it.

Thanks!
-Josh

The user formerly known as “Trillary Dump” (it was the 2016 election…)

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Brand new to the group. Interesting … I own the MATRIX LD in question (plus about 5000+ others LDs). and I never quite understood the fascination with that particular disc, although I knew it was a limited pressing. I never bought the Pioneer RF Convertor for my CLD-704, so I can’t really attest to it’s sound quality, though it sounds great without the added equipment. My (3) CLD-704s are mothballed currently, as I haven’t found a competent repair facility, but I’ll give it a whirl tonight on my DVL-909.

PS. Never heard of the “open-mat” HK version, though. I’m kind of a “my cold dead hands” type, so please don’t ask … sorry. I won’t part with any piece of my collection. In hindsight, I wish I had bought a spare.

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jisan said:

Brand new to the group. Interesting … I own the MATRIX LD in question (plus about 5000+ others LDs). and I never quite understood the fascination with that particular disc, although I knew it was a limited pressing. I never bought the Pioneer RF Convertor for my CLD-704, so I can’t really attest to it’s sound quality, though it sounds great without the added equipment. My (3) CLD-704s are mothballed currently, as I haven’t found a competent repair facility, but I’ll give it a whirl tonight on my DVL-909.

PS. Never heard of the “open-mat” HK version, though. I’m kind of a “my cold dead hands” type, so please don’t ask … sorry. I won’t part with any piece of my collection. In hindsight, I wish I had bought a spare.

Are you on the LDDB forum? You can probably find info there about LD player repairs in the 21st century.

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Where were you in '77?

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@SilverWook: Haven’t heard of them, but I shall check it out almost immediately! Nothing worse than a huge batch of software with nothing to play it on. I have at least 4 or 5 players in deperate need of cleaning and alignment.(Pioneer … I hate you!). Thanks for the tip!

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No problem. My 704 is always threatening to self destruct. I’ve had it repaired twice in the past decade. I keep wishing Pioneer could make a new player that isn’t like a Rube Goldberg design on the inside. Maybe for the 45th anniversary of Discovision’s debut? 😉

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Where were you in '77?

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Kind of off topic, kind of not (this still is about the Matrix):

https://youtu.be/8GdG4Ryt9ro

I just found that someone scanned an open matte 35mm print of the trailer and it looks glorious! It appears that any shots with vfx are matted to 16:9 (they were probably rendered at that aspect ratio). This isn’t surprising since the vfx shots in the full screen DVDs of the sequels are just cropped at the sides compared to the 16:9 HDTV master.

Would anyone have a clue as to where to find a 35mm open matte copy of the film? I know there are anamorphic prints out there as well since the released scan is from one of those prints.

The user formerly known as “Trillary Dump” (it was the 2016 election…)

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trillary dump said:

Kind of off topic, kind of not (this still is about the Matrix):

https://youtu.be/8GdG4Ryt9ro

I just found that someone scanned an open matte 35mm print of the trailer and it looks glorious! It appears that any shots with vfx are matted to 16:9 (they were probably rendered at that aspect ratio). This isn’t surprising since the vfx shots in the full screen DVDs of the sequels are just cropped at the sides compared to the 16:9 HDTV master.

Would anyone have a clue as to where to find a 35mm open matte copy of the film? I know there are anamorphic prints out there as well since the released scan is from one of those prints.

Hi Trillary Dump,
Did you manage to find a source for The Matrix as close to what is shown in the John Allegretti link?
I really agree that it looks glorious, and would love to have a copy that closely resembles that color grading.
I believe however that those links by Allegretti (https://vimeo.com/485083997) are just scans of the trailer film stock.

See description:
This trailer was taken from a 35mm print. The film was scanned in 2K on a Lasergraphics Scanstation. Although the print came with an optical stereo track, a higher quality source was found in a DAT tape made from the MOS disc. The high quality digital stereo soundtrack was recorded from this tape. A small amount of color correction was done to fix inconsistencies between certain shots. Some shots were slightly reframed to hide on-set equipment. All scanning and recording by Gamma Ray Digital, Inc.

In any case, I can I maybe get a link to your HDTV mp4?
I’d like to see how that compares to my original DVDs.
Thank you.