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Changes in 2004 DVDs — Page 16

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Empire had some of the most messed up changes. From Cloud Cities mutating windows and balconies with noticable wall reflections, a Wampa's bloody,should-have-be-cauturized-the-second-it-happened stump, to the high-speed tension and music of the Falcon's escape ruined by slow, pointless shots of a Lamda class shuttle. That scene had dread, you spent it cringing at every hit and wondering with Luke if Vader had told the truth. Now you sit and think, "Is the Falcon going to make, but, more importantly, will Vader's shuttle make it in time for his enterence to the bridge?"


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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Originally posted by: Klingon_Jedi
Empire had some of the most messed up changes. From Cloud Cities mutating windows and balconies with noticable wall reflections, a Wampa's bloody,should-have-be-cauturized-the-second-it-happened stump, to the high-speed tension and music of the Falcon's escape ruined by slow, pointless shots of a Lamda class shuttle. That scene had dread, you spent it cringing at every hit and wondering with Luke if Vader had told the truth. Now you sit and think, "Is the Falcon going to make, but, more importantly, will Vader's shuttle make it in time for his enterence to the bridge?"


I can't even watch the original Cloud City. The new Cloud City is so much better. It simply makes the scene come alive. The Wampa was originally intended to be that way. I think seeing the Wampa is more exciting and makes alot more sense.
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yippee someone finally agrees that the original cloud city was better!!


and the wampa scene wasnt that bad but was definatly not needed....
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
yippee someone finally agrees that the original cloud city was better!!


and the wampa scene wasnt that bad but was definatly not needed....


Lucas had attempted to creating a good Wampa puppet back in 1980. Unfortunity it didn't work properly so they had to show very little of it. The Special Edition makes that scene so much better.
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The windows of Cloud City made it feel smaller, not bigger. Plus, Lucas didn't follow through. They'd walk up to the window, and it would be all digital. The camera changes angles and it's noticably back to how it was. Not just one, but every window that was in two shots had only the establishing shot changed. What was up with the fly through by the cloud car too? Just more pointless effects. I found them distracting.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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Lucas had attempted to creating a good Wampa puppet back in 1980. Unfortunity it didn't work properly so they had to show very little of it. The Special Edition makes that scene so much better.


I understand that but i felt it played out better when you didnt see it...
things like that play out on your fears more when you dont see it... you can picture it for yourself...
look at the movie signs... many thought that the ending was ruined when they showed the alien... i thought it did...

i've always thought less is more...
play the game silent hill and you'll notice that they use sound more than any blood and gore to make a game scary as hell!!
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
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Lucas had attempted to creating a good Wampa puppet back in 1980. Unfortunity it didn't work properly so they had to show very little of it. The Special Edition makes that scene so much better.


I understand that but i felt it played out better when you didnt see it...
things like that play out on your fears more when you dont see it... you can picture it for yourself...
look at the movie signs... many thought that the ending was ruined when they showed the alien... i thought it did...

i've always thought less is more...
play the game silent hill and you'll notice that they use sound more than any blood and gore to make a game scary as hell!!


...Or almost any Hitchcock movie (especially Psycho)...

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indeed...
there's tons of examples of movies like that...
i feel they should have left the wampa scene like it was...
if it aint broke, dont fix it
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
indeed...
there's tons of examples of movies like that...
i feel they should have left the wampa scene like it was...
if it aint broke, dont fix it


If the scene isn't the way it was originally intended it is broke. The wampa change might be my favorite Special Edition change. I never liked that scene originally. It was confusing, stupid, and not scary at all. Now the scene is so much improved.
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If the scene isn't the way it was originally intended it is broke


so much for jimbo's streak of tolerable posts...
jimbo i think your broke.... have u ever made a movie??? no! exactly.... so how the hell would u know what broke was?
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
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If the scene isn't the way it was originally intended it is broke


so much for jimbo's streak of tolerable posts...
jimbo i think your broke.... have u ever made a movie??? no! exactly.... so how the hell would u know what broke was?


Nothing lasts forever.

And truthfully, we'll never know how Lucas originally intended anything. His original intentions vary from year to year, and from video release to video release.
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Isn't that the truth. I remember him saying he complained about the films in every interview. I've seen quite a few of the pre-SE interviews. All he complained about was the cantina not having enough aliens. He then said he made up for it in ROTJ. Then there's my favorite. The statements that Star Wars is about characters and reimagining the old seriels he loved. Post 97 George- "I lied, it was about cool special effects the whole time, models suck."

Rick McCullum - "The essence of the storytelling had to be sacrificed due to the limits in technology". Bull, I'm sure the trilogy truly "suffered" lacking the redundant Jabba scene, the pointless Vader shuttle scene, and the goofy dance number.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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Originally posted by: Klingon_Jedi
Rick McCullum - "The essence of the storytelling had to be sacrificed due to the limits in technology". Bull, I'm sure the trilogy truly "suffered" lacking the redundant Jabba scene, the pointless Vader shuttle scene, and the goofy dance number.

McCallum said that? About the original trilogy for which he had absolutely no involvement?! What's his excuse for the prequels?

Greedo shoots first? Not in my DVD player.
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Originally posted by: Obi-Wan Spicoli
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Originally posted by: Klingon_Jedi
Rick McCullum - "The essence of the storytelling had to be sacrificed due to the limits in technology". Bull, I'm sure the trilogy truly "suffered" lacking the redundant Jabba scene, the pointless Vader shuttle scene, and the goofy dance number.

McCallum said that? About the original trilogy for which he had absolutely no involvement?! What's his excuse for the prequels?



HAHAHAH! Oh jeez, that was funny.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Originally posted by: Galahad_Skywalker
And truthfully, we'll never know how Lucas originally intended anything. His original intentions vary from year to year, and from video release to video release.


Amen to that brother.......

I'm beginning to seriously doubt the legitimacy of ANYTHING that emerges from that dudes mouth......

"Well I had a 9 part treatment for the story written back in 1972. Did I say 9? Oh meant 6, no 9, no 6, yes definitely 6 & I'd always envisioned Jar Jar being in the movies (even though my then 5 year old son created him in 1997, but we'll just brush that under the carpet shall we??)"

Evil dude: "You do not no pain, you do not know fear. You will taste MAN FLESH"

Evil ugly dudes: "YIPPEEEEEEEEE!!!!"
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McCallum did in fact say that in the 1997 Fox special. I taped all the specials at that time.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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Originally posted by: Klingon_Jedi
McCallum did in fact say that in the 1997 Fox special. I taped all the specials at that time.


I don't think I ever doubted that he said that for a minute. It sounds just like McCallum to say that.
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Hello, I'm new here. I just signed the petition and decided this would be the place to voice my opinion on this topic. I've tried to do this at the official site but every time I try and login there my password is screwed up and the new ones that they send me don't work. So I just gave up.

Anyway, Originals vs. Special Editions. I should begin by saying that I don't hate the SE. I saw the original versions in the theatre when they originally came out, I saw the SE's in the theatre when they came out, I've watched both versions on VHS and now DVD for years. So, like so many others here and elsewhere, I'm very, very familiar with these movies. I'm one of those long time fans. I should also say that I totally do not agree with GL's decision to not release the original versions of these movies on DVD. That is just an out and out crime and I won't waste my breath defending my position. Several people here have already done that for me. I should also say that I don't mind GL trying to 'improve' or 'complete' the films to his satisfaction. That's fine. I just want the films that I saw as a child on DVD in their original versions. That doesn't mean that I'm a SE hater or a prequel hater. I'm not going to get into the prequels here. That's best saved for another thread. And believe me I have opinions on those as well.

Ok, now that the introductions are over, to the topic at hand. The first change from the originals to the SE that I did like was the entire clean up of the films. They looked better than I have ever seen them look. They sounded better than I've ever heard them sound, but let's face it, there were a few problems with the sound. Leia's gun suddenly sounding like a rifle instead of a laser. Someone just dropped the ball there and this is easily fixed.

However, if they fixed the snow battle in Empire then why couldn't they fix the matte lines in the Rancor scene from Jedi or even that horrible, horrible scene between Lando and Han in the hanger. When Lando walks away it still looks so fake. It just bugs me to this very day. It stands to reason that if you're going to take the time to totally fix the snow battle the least that you can do is fix those two scenes in Jedi. I mean, come on.

The added or changed stuff. Well, some of it was fine and some of it was dreadful. Let's do this film by film. Ok, ANH. I did like the new expanded Mos Eisley stuff and the fix to the land speeder. I also did like the Dewback scene that was added. The new Ben Kenobi house, I'm pretty much indifferent on that. The Wolfman in the Cantina, while I do miss him, again, that really doesn't matter all that much to me. The Jabba scene. I like this a lot because I have always felt that it needed to be there, but they really need to improve it. Jabba looked nothing like he did in Jedi or even TPM. Fix that and I'll be happy with it. The tail stepping, well, sort of juvenile, makes kids laugh so fine. Not a real problem. The Death Star and Alderraan explosion rings. Totally unnecessary. We get the point. Why bother? The Falcon taking off from the docking bay 94. Again, kind of unnecessary. We get the point. Again, why bother? It almost seems like at times that GL is dumbing these films down for some reason. Or am I just crazy? Anyway, I did really like the Biggs scene in the Rebel hanger. In fact I was totally shocked the first time I saw it. Bravo, bravo, bravo. Anything with Biggs is a welcome addition. Ok, the Death Star battle. Looked great, but I could tell most of the time what was new and what was old. I didn't think that the original stuff looked all that bad. So again, I was like why bother? It worked for me for 20 years. I also did like the elimination of the cardboard people at the end of the film. Greedo and Han. No, no, no, no, no! This was all-wrong and looked really fake. This was the one moment in the entire film that totally pulls me right out of the movie. Plus it's just plain pointless. There is no logical reason for this change and I don't care what GL says.

Empire. Well, great, great improvement to the snow battle. It was nice to see through the cockpits clearly and not see the scenery behind the matte. The Wampa. This is another one of those times where what was done originally worked just fine so why bother? If it ain't broke don't fix it. I don't mind seeing the Wampa, but it really wasn't necessary for me to see it. I already had an idea of what it looked like. Besides, there was an action figure of it so I had already seen it long before 97. Cloud City. Again, I did like the improved approach to the City and the improved backgrounds and even the Cloud Car fly by thing. However, the windows, while at first glance look really cool, they are also really deceptive. Yes, one minute they are there and the next minute they are gone. Bad, bad, bad execution. Again I think someone dropped the ball. Luke's scream. This was just out and out dumb. It wasn't even his voice and you can totally tell. GL needs a slap for this as well as the Greedo mess. The whole changing of Vader's shuttle line and scene. Again, we get it. Why bother? Again it seems that GL is treating us like idiots. Sorry, but we can figure out on our own how Vader got back to the Star Destroyer. This was just a waste of time and money. I was glad to see that they fixed the shot of Vader looking out the window at the end. At least the backgrounds now all look the same instead of the center window having a grayish look to it. The whole added stuff where Lando announces the Empire is taking over was again just a waste of time and money. It again falls into the 'we get it' category.

Jedi. I'm sorry but that Jedi Rocks thing is the stupidest piece of crap that I have ever seen. It looked just awful. If GL wanted to improve that scene why didn't he just use the original number and replace Sy Snootles with a CGI Snootles and be done with it? And that CGI Sy Snootles looked just terrible. I'm sorry. I've seen good CGI characters and she wasn't one of them. Neither was the Yuzumm. There were so many ways that GL could have re-worked this scene. From the original music video for La Penik (Sorry but I can't spell that correctly), he did use several of the scenes that were inserted into the SE of Jedi so why not just use the original song? It just didn't make any sense to me. The scene with Oola falling down the chute to the Rancor pit. Well, as much as I really like it, again this was one of those 'we get it' moments but it doesn't bother me that it's there. The Sarlaac pit stuff, well, I'm kind of torn on this. While the Sarlaac looked more 'alive' it did still look really fake. That could be better. However, the original version worked for me for 20 years so I didn't see the need for it. I did however like the quick scene of the Bantha heard. That was cool. But Luke in the Rancor pit still bugs me. As does the Lando and Han scene but I've already mentioned those. The end celebration scene. I see from the previous posts that this seems to be a point of controversy. To clear up that mess you have to remember that as GL stated in 77 or 78, this was to be a 9-part saga, not 6. Therefore Jedi was not the last part and therefore the Empire was not overthrown at that point. There was still lots left to 'clean up.' Now that GL has since changed his story and said that there are now only 6 parts, he tried to find a way to bring the whole thing to a close. However, these little shots of Tatooine, Cloud City and the capital (I don't know how to spell it and I'm not going to try) seem really out of place. The changed music and the missing Ewok song, well, I never really liked the Ewok song in the first place so it really doesn't matter to me. I like the new music but the celebration scenes just seem out of place. I guess because I know that Jedi wasn't really the end so there is no reason for the entire galaxy to be celebrating the end of the Empire.

Also, just to
Keeping The Star Wars Hoiliday Special alive. Once person at a time. Stir, stir, whip, whip, stir, beat, beat.
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DAMN!
great first post!

WELCOME TO THE BOARDS!
hope to see more from you...
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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Pasted from another thread. (I posted it originally though, so it's all good.)




Hey, Laserman (or whoever is good with editing tools):

Would it be halfway possible that, when you make the de-SEed OT DVD in September, that you could make a "good changes only" version.

Kina our own "Halfway Edition" of what the SE probably should have been in teh first place.

It would probably have the SE version of the "look sir, droids!"
The SE fixed up scene of the sky at night on Tatooine where it *doesn't* change color on just one shot.
Perhaps minor shots like the Jawa sandcrawler, speeder flying by and not obscured by rocks, and the extra stormtrooper dismounting a Dewback when threepio says "I don't like the look of this" in Mos Eisley. Any minor shots or little things that actually look good.
But parts where the originals are better would be where the LDs get plugged in.
Parts like the entrance to Mos Eisley, Greedo vs. Han, Jabba scene (although you don't really need any LD footage to remove a scene), and the Battle of Yavin. Pretty much any major changes would be the original version. And the original Alderaan and Death Star explosions.

Empire Strikes Back "Halfway Edition" could have the original Wampa, the original Could City (since the SE has so many continuity erros because of the new hallway windows and stuff), and the original escape from Cloud City sequence.
SE parts of ESB would be the Battle of Hoth (if there even are any changes; i haven't noticed any), Artoo being blue in space, the new hatch inside the top hatch when Lando retreives Luke, and any other minor "good" changes. Also maybe the new shot of Leia through the window of her Cloud City "apartment" since it fixed the roof error.

Return of the Jedi could have the original Jabba dance number, and the original Sarlacc. Whether the ending is new or original is up for debate. I'd personally be ok with whichever version the editor prefers. I would recommend leaving the SE shots of other planets, but when it pans down to the Ewoks it is the original Yub Nub song. This would also cover the Hayden ghost, if for some reason that rumor is true.
SE changes would once again be minor shots that were actually "good". Like having ropes around Han's feet when he dangles off the speeder, the quick shot of the Bantha herd, fixed "stop motion" dude walking across the speeder immediatly after the Bantha shot, Artoo being blue in space again, and any other minor things that were "good" changes.

NOTE TO EDITOR, FROM EDITOR'S POINT OF VIEW ON THIS:
Since the preferred source material is the SE DVDs, you would first map out which original version scenes/shots should be there, and then insert them into the SE DVD file. So minor shots being the SE shouldn't be a problem, since they are there to begin with. A dual layered burner would be preferred, since otherwise the quality of the SE DVD footage wouldn't be at it's original quality. (no funny contradiction intended) And with a dual layered burner you could afford to stick the actual DVD menus on the disc too. You may have to trim out un-needed features such as alternate audio tracks (save commentaries though).

*Phew*
Anyone who thinks they can do this is more than welcome to try.
They could offer the De-SEed original version or the super-delux-ultra-woofrickenhoo-Halfway-Edition.
(But remember, SE bootlegs aren't allowed here)

My stance on revising fan edits.

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R2, you summed up most of my thoughts on the SE. Its mostly a case of fixing stuff that wasn't broke and leaving things the were. Welcome to our madness. ^_^


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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Does anyone know if ben burrt is re-mastering the sound for the dvds of the sw trilogy?
Kenneth Kraly Jr.
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Indeed he is. Actually, from what I've heard, it's been one of the most elaborate sound restorations undertaken for DVD (going back to original 1977 sound stems, etc.). Serves Lucasfilm right for waiting so long. All that film negative was ever gonna do is sit there and rot as every other movie got its proper release. Even the SEs aren't up to snuff with today's technology. By the time the home video release had happened for the SE, DVD was just a glimmer in some video stores and was on par with LD. I vividly remember thinking DVD was going to fail back then. Wasn't until I saw Robocop and some other movies and realized how great it was.

Things like 5.1, 6.1, 5.1 EX and 5.1 ES were infantile and most even nonexistant. The LDs got a great sound remaster, but I'm sure Lucasfilm is gonna want to blow away another trilogy...one about short people and jewelery. Bizarre effects and hoaky dance scenes isn't gonna do it though!