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Most Disappointing / Satisfying Aspect of the Sequel Trilogy? — Page 20

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DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

OutboundFlight said:

Overall, I think a lot of the hate towards TLJ comes to… ok I’m sorry for bringing this quote up again… but your subversion of expectations.

TLJ set some concepts up and I think maybe in part of the constant debate that’s ensued over the past two years, the majority has come to a basic conclusion of what Episode 9 must do. Without considering RJ left things very open.
–Rey should struggle with being no one
–Rey should find a balance between the old and new
–Rey should rebuild the Jedi Order

I understand your point of view. It is kind of hypocritical that TLJ fans constantly say, “You just didn’t like TLJ because your fan theories didn’t come true!” while simultaneously making fan theories about TROS and being upset when they don’t come true.

Incorrect. For instance, thinking Rey should be a nobody in TROS wasn’t a “theory.” It was a fact that was established in TLJ that they reversed. That’s completely different.

In the same way thinking Luke should be the son of a Great Fallen Jedi wasn’t a “theory”, but a fact that was established in ANH that they reversed?

Maul- A Star Wars Story

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 (Edited)

OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

OutboundFlight said:

Overall, I think a lot of the hate towards TLJ comes to… ok I’m sorry for bringing this quote up again… but your subversion of expectations.

TLJ set some concepts up and I think maybe in part of the constant debate that’s ensued over the past two years, the majority has come to a basic conclusion of what Episode 9 must do. Without considering RJ left things very open.
–Rey should struggle with being no one
–Rey should find a balance between the old and new
–Rey should rebuild the Jedi Order

I understand your point of view. It is kind of hypocritical that TLJ fans constantly say, “You just didn’t like TLJ because your fan theories didn’t come true!” while simultaneously making fan theories about TROS and being upset when they don’t come true.

Incorrect. For instance, thinking Rey should be a nobody in TROS wasn’t a “theory.” It was a fact that was established in TLJ that they reversed. That’s completely different.

In the same way thinking Luke should be the son of a Great Fallen Jedi wasn’t a “theory”, but a fact that was established in ANH that they reversed?

I mean yeah they’re both retcons. But I’d argue, while one deepens and complicates the character’s journey midway through, the other cheapens, diminishes, and reorients the character’s journey right as it’s supposed to be reaching its conclusion.

Besides how stupid Rey Palpatine is, there’s a big difference between doing it in part 2 and part 3. Once you’re 2/3 of the way into a story, you can’t change it that drastically and expect people to think it works.

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 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

OutboundFlight said:

Overall, I think a lot of the hate towards TLJ comes to… ok I’m sorry for bringing this quote up again… but your subversion of expectations.

TLJ set some concepts up and I think maybe in part of the constant debate that’s ensued over the past two years, the majority has come to a basic conclusion of what Episode 9 must do. Without considering RJ left things very open.
–Rey should struggle with being no one
–Rey should find a balance between the old and new
–Rey should rebuild the Jedi Order

I understand your point of view. It is kind of hypocritical that TLJ fans constantly say, “You just didn’t like TLJ because your fan theories didn’t come true!” while simultaneously making fan theories about TROS and being upset when they don’t come true.

Incorrect. For instance, thinking Rey should be a nobody in TROS wasn’t a “theory.” It was a fact that was established in TLJ that they reversed. That’s completely different.

In the same way thinking Luke should be the son of a Great Fallen Jedi wasn’t a “theory”, but a fact that was established in ANH that they reversed?

I mean yeah they’re both retcons. But I’d argue, while one deepens and complicates the character’s journey midway through, the other cheapens, diminishes, and reorients the character’s journey right as it’s supposed to be reaching its conclusion.

Besides how stupid Rey Palpatine is, there’s a big difference between doing it in part 2 and part 3. Once you’re 2/3 of the way into a story, you can’t change it that drastically and expect people to think it works.

I disagree. It’s just different ways of telling the story. You could have told an amazing story about avenging one’s death, which would have fundamentally changed Star Wars but would still have worked fine (see: John Wick, ok maybe that’s not a good example but you get the point).

I also didn’t find them dropping this in part 3 an issue, but this probably comes down to personal preference. TROS does have a ridiculous pace, I find it charming but understand the dislike.

Maul- A Star Wars Story

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OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

OutboundFlight said:

Overall, I think a lot of the hate towards TLJ comes to… ok I’m sorry for bringing this quote up again… but your subversion of expectations.

TLJ set some concepts up and I think maybe in part of the constant debate that’s ensued over the past two years, the majority has come to a basic conclusion of what Episode 9 must do. Without considering RJ left things very open.
–Rey should struggle with being no one
–Rey should find a balance between the old and new
–Rey should rebuild the Jedi Order

I understand your point of view. It is kind of hypocritical that TLJ fans constantly say, “You just didn’t like TLJ because your fan theories didn’t come true!” while simultaneously making fan theories about TROS and being upset when they don’t come true.

Incorrect. For instance, thinking Rey should be a nobody in TROS wasn’t a “theory.” It was a fact that was established in TLJ that they reversed. That’s completely different.

In the same way thinking Luke should be the son of a Great Fallen Jedi wasn’t a “theory”, but a fact that was established in ANH that they reversed?

I mean yeah they’re both retcons. But I’d argue, while one deepens and complicates the character’s journey midway through, the other cheapens, diminishes, and reorients the character’s journey right as it’s supposed to be reaching its conclusion.

Besides how stupid Rey Palpatine is, there’s a big difference between doing it in part 2 and part 3. Once you’re 2/3 of the way into a story, you can’t change it that drastically and expect people to think it works.

I disagree. It’s just different ways of telling the story. You could have told an amazing story about avenging one’s death, which would have fundamentally changed Star Wars but would still have worked fine (see: John Wick, ok maybe that’s not a good example but you get the point).

Well I don’t mean to suggest it didn’t change the story, but Luke’s goal was never about avenging his father, it was following in his footsteps. So the change doesn’t throw it off the tracks so much as complicate the goal and what it means. His final challenge would have still been ‘defeating evil,’ it just would have been as simple as defeating Vader.

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OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

OutboundFlight said:

Overall, I think a lot of the hate towards TLJ comes to… ok I’m sorry for bringing this quote up again… but your subversion of expectations.

TLJ set some concepts up and I think maybe in part of the constant debate that’s ensued over the past two years, the majority has come to a basic conclusion of what Episode 9 must do. Without considering RJ left things very open.
–Rey should struggle with being no one
–Rey should find a balance between the old and new
–Rey should rebuild the Jedi Order

I understand your point of view. It is kind of hypocritical that TLJ fans constantly say, “You just didn’t like TLJ because your fan theories didn’t come true!” while simultaneously making fan theories about TROS and being upset when they don’t come true.

Incorrect. For instance, thinking Rey should be a nobody in TROS wasn’t a “theory.” It was a fact that was established in TLJ that they reversed. That’s completely different.

In the same way thinking Luke should be the son of a Great Fallen Jedi wasn’t a “theory”, but a fact that was established in ANH that they reversed?

But it’s not the same. Rey’s entire story in TLJ centered around her parentage and her eventual acceptance that they were nobodies and bums. Most of this was undone by the Palpatine reveal in TROS.

If the entire first Star Wars movie was about Luke searching for his father only to discover toward the end that he’s dead, and then discover in the next movie that he’s alive and he’s Darth Vader, then it’d be the same.

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 (Edited)

pleasehello said:

Rey’s entire story in TLJ centered around her parentage and her eventual acceptance that they were nobodies and bums.

Keep in mind that if you watch the scene, Kylo makes her admit that she knew that they were nobodies, before he tells her that her parents were filthy junk traders that sold her and died off.

The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.

I also prefer to be referred to as “TNT”, not “Freezing”.

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OutboundFlight said:

Rey should struggle with being no one

Keep in mind that Rey never actually wanted to know who her parents were: she was just waiting for her family to return, before accepting that they will never return, as Maz Kanata points out in The Force Awakens. This is one of the reasons why Rey starting to cry when Kylo made her admit that her parents were nobodies right before he reveals that her parents did not care about her and actually sold her did not make any sense.

In Episode VIII, Rey’s arc should be feeling rejected by her new surrogate family (Luke) and joining Kylo after he lies that everybody she has known in her life has rejected her. In Episode IX, she would find out the truth, redeem herself and reject Kylo, accepting her surrogate family as her “real family” (you know what I mean 😉).

The unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequel and Disney trilogies is that they will always be around. Forever. They will never go away. It can never be undone.

I also prefer to be referred to as “TNT”, not “Freezing”.

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FreezingTNT2 said:

OutboundFlight said:

Rey should struggle with being no one

Keep in mind that Rey never actually wanted to know who her parents were: she was just waiting for her family to return, before accepting that they will never return, as Maz Kanata points out in The Force Awakens. This is one of the reasons why Rey starting to cry when Kylo made her admit that her parents were nobodies right before he reveals that her parents did not care about her and actually sold her did not make any sense.

In Episode VIII, Rey’s arc should be feeling rejected by her new surrogate family (Luke) and joining Kylo after he lies that everybody she has known in her life has rejected her. In Episode IX, she would find out the truth, redeem herself and reject Kylo, accepting her surrogate family as her “real family” (you know what I mean 😉).

I completely agree. It’s one of the reasons I don’t like Rey in TLJ, it feels too much like it was subverting our expectations. I really wish JJ hadn’t made mystery boxes to begin with and just said her family is no one (Palpatine would still work as a surprise later).

Maul- A Star Wars Story

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 (Edited)

Ultimately, the most disappointing thing was the fact that it didn’t even tell us a story. If you put all three films together, there’s literally nothing. TFA sets up a lot of interesting plot lines, TLJ negates everything, and TROS is a video game with no plotline. It’s embarrassing that TROS made over $1 billion. It’s like Disney was playing Limbo with the quality of the films. And our answers through the box office was: as low as you want to go; we’ll watch anything.

Another huge disappointment was how TROS ruined the Force. It just got out of control with that movie. What a genius idea to get the guy who wrote Batman v Superman to write Star Wars.

The best part was seeing Luke again as a “Jedi”, and seeing the main protagonist being a girl (albeit an awfully written character).

“Who are you?”, asked Kira.

“I am the balance”, replied the ghost.

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ShamanWhill said:

The best part was seeing Luke again as a “Jedi”, and seeing the main protagonist being a girl (albeit an awfully written character).

And it is a shame she wasn’t well written. I liked the way Daisy Ridley portrayed Rey, and in a vacuum I’d argue she’s a good character. But everything about her is so underutilized, that at least in TLJ it felt more like she was there to be an earpiece for Luke and Kylo to vent about their problems than the central protagonist of the trilogy.

Nevermind that the films felt so disjointed that it wasn’t clear if she even had a character arc to go through.

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Most disappointing: The name “New Republic”.

Most satisfying: A female Jedi in action.

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Most disappointing: The utter incompetence of the writers in regards to World Building, especially in Ep7

Most satisfying: John Williams’ score, especially in Ep9 interestingly enough. The clever cues push all the nostalgia buttons.

For seventeen years the renegade Pfhor scoutship jumped between the closely packed stars of the galactic core. And all over the ship, dancing through the wreckage of the Pfhor computer core, Durandal was laughing…

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I disagree, I think Williams’ score as presented across both the For Your Consideration and Official Soundtracks, is one of the best things he’s done in a while! I think I’d still place the Episode 7 soundtrack above it, but Episode 9’s music is stronger than basically every Prequel’s soundtrack, and I’d argue it’s stronger than Return of the Jedi’s as well. He’s doing a lot with that music, and even setting aside the musicality of the new themes, he’s got a lot of interesting underscore that isn’t tied to themes or motifs in this soundtrack. Not just repeated string rhythms and the sort of “basic action music” he’s kind of automatically turned out ever since his Harry Potter days (there’s a lot of it in his Prequel scores, too), but complex, interesting musical movements that aren’t connected to pre-existing thematic material. He hasn’t really done that to this extent on a Star Wars movie since Empire Strikes Back, and it was really exciting to hear.

Since this is the internet, and we rank things here:

11 - Attack of the Clones
10 - Return of the Jedi
9 - Rogue One
8 - The Last Jedi
7 - Revenge of the Sith
6 - Solo
5 - The Rise of Skywalker
4 - The Phantom Menace
3 - The Force Awakens
2 - Star Wars
1 - The Empire Strikes Back

And to echo Outbound Flight - even though Attack of the Clones is at the bottom of this list, “Bottom of this list” is A-tier soundtrack. S-tier stops at #6, and A-tier starts at #7.

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I don’t understand your ranking. Why do you skip 1-10, and is a higher number better or worse?

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I don’t understand my ranking either. I didn’t enter those numbers, it was counting backwards from 10-1.

I think maybe the board software auto corrected it?

yes, that’s exactly what happens. I went in to edit it and the order was correct. Just had to change from a parentheses to a hyphen.