The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 20

Congrats on the new job, Hal!

Just wanted to lay out a few of the options I’ve heard floating around regarding Rey’s story in the movie, as well as share some bigger thoughts regarding Ascendent.

So, these are some of alternative reveal options I’ve heard so far:

1. Rey Palpatine (Original)
2. Rey Nobody, Palpatine saw her future and ordered to have her killed/taken.
3. Not Palpatine’s biological grandchild, but created her through the dark side, like an anti-Chosen One.
4. Rey Nobody, but she killed her parents. (Remove connection with Ochi).
5. Rey Nobody, but Kylo killed her parents.
6. Rey Nobody, and the main conflict deals with destiny and visions of her future.

A 7th option might be worth trying with initial edits is to just try and cut everything necessary to remove the Rey Palpatine connection, and don’t try to set up some kind of dramatic reveal. At this point we’re all trying to replace the Rey Palpatine reveal with something else, but the challenge with that will be to create new shots and dialogue that fit these alternative narratives. Something like this idea would mostly require making Rey and Kylo’s Kijimi/Destroyer and hangar interactions more action-focused and brief, as well as cutting other brief lines throughout the film.

In regards to discussing it on Hal’s thread, I think this approach might fit best with the minimalism of Restructured and Legendary. Both of Hal’s edits have worked well at addressing the major issues of their films, but not changing too much, which allowed those edits to function well as foundations for other editors to build more radical ideas on.

So working along those lines, I think it would be great to collaborate on making the minimal changes necessary to remove Rey Palpatine, and use this as a basis for future editors to explore some of those alternatives like I mentioned above. I know Hal’s original post mentioned he was a little iffy on deviating from the canon too much, so maybe Ascendent isn’t the right project for this idea.

BUT, I will say that while Restructured, for example, doesn’t get rid of Starkiller Base, which was arguably one of biggest gripes people had with the film, it did drastically change its position in the film to make the overall film better. I think Rey Palpatine was one of the biggest issues with TROS for many people (and Ben Solo dying being another, imo), and I think it would be difficult to improve that plot point outside of just removing it completely.

Also, since Hal is rather busy with his personal life, we could use Ascendant as an opportunity to collaborate like many here did on Restructured. And Hal could chime in every once in and awhile on the direction the project is going in. Restructured gave us a clear goal that multiple people could work towards, which was focused on improving Starkiller’s function in the story. Ascendent could work similarly, with the goal being to simply remove any connection to Rey and Palpatine (as well as other popular changes, like the other ideas Hal mentioned in his initial post).

I don’t want us to take over your edit, Hal, but since you’ve already released two other edits for the sequel trilogy and you’re busy with life right now, it might be a good way for us to help you round out your trilogy, and work together to improve what is arguably the movie in this trilogy that is in most need of an edit. But again, I can’t recall your stance on Rey Palpatine and I don’t want to put words in your mouth.

So basically, the objective could be to collaborate on making only the most necessary changes to remove Rey Palpatine, and make other popular changes, basically as an edit that addresses the major gripes people had with the movie, without becoming too radically different from what we got.

I agree. Outside of option 7, I think option 6 would be the most feasible “reveal” since we are just reworking shots and other material that already exists. It would still require some Kylo dialogue changes, but no elaborate exposition. But once an Option 6 or Option 7 edit was created, it could work well as a basis for an edit like Option 4, or a 4/6 combination like you suggested.

I think a good way to disconnect Ochi from Rey’s backstory would be to reword C-3PO’s translation of the Dagger engraving. Basically it would still give them the coordinates, but it would also say the the dagger is necessary to find the wayfinder. It would give a reason for Rey to split up from the gang and find it, rather than her having a random feeling about it, and it would set up Rey getting the idea that she could even use the dagger Goonies-style to line it up with the wreckage and pinpoint the location of the wayfinder.

Kylo tells Lor San Tekka in TFA, “You’re so right.” Maybe that could be reworked in some fashion.

RogueLeader said:

Just wanted to lay out a few of the options I’ve heard floating around regarding Rey’s story in the movie, as well as share some bigger thoughts regarding Ascendent.

So, these are some of alternative reveal options I’ve heard so far:

1. Rey Palpatine (Original)
2. Rey Nobody, Palpatine saw her future and ordered to have her killed/taken.
3. Not Palpatine’s biological grandchild, but created her through the dark side, like an anti-Chosen One.
4. Rey Nobody, but she killed her parents. (Remove connection with Ochi).
5. Rey Nobody, but Kylo killed her parents.
6. Rey Nobody, and the main conflict deals with destiny and visions of her future.

A 7th option might be worth trying with initial edits is to just try and cut everything necessary to remove the Rey Palpatine connection, and don’t try to set up some kind of dramatic reveal. At this point we’re all trying to replace the Rey Palpatine reveal with something else, but the challenge with that will be to create new shots and dialogue that fit these alternative narratives. Something like this idea would mostly require making Rey and Kylo’s Kijimi/Destroyer and hangar interactions more action-focused and brief, as well as cutting other brief lines throughout the film.

So basically, the objective could be to collaborate on making only the most necessary changes to remove Rey Palpatine, and make other popular changes, basically as an edit that addresses the major gripes people had with the movie, without becoming too radically different from what we got.

The thing is, at least from my perspective, option 2 and option 7 are essentially the same thing. Option 2 is what you get when you cut out Palpatine being Rey’s grandfather but leave everything else. If you wanted to also remove Palpatine seeing her future and ordering her to be killed, you’d end up with a more drastic/radical edit than option 2, because you’d in effect be removing everything from Kylo and Rey’s star destroyer interactions rather than just some of it.

Maybe I’m biased because it’s the option I’m going with, but the reason it’s the option I’m going with is that it seems like the absolute easiest way to do it.

DominicCobb said:

RogueLeader said:

Just wanted to lay out a few of the options I’ve heard floating around regarding Rey’s story in the movie, as well as share some bigger thoughts regarding Ascendent.

So, these are some of alternative reveal options I’ve heard so far:

1. Rey Palpatine (Original)
2. Rey Nobody, Palpatine saw her future and ordered to have her killed/taken.
3. Not Palpatine’s biological grandchild, but created her through the dark side, like an anti-Chosen One.
4. Rey Nobody, but she killed her parents. (Remove connection with Ochi).
5. Rey Nobody, but Kylo killed her parents.
6. Rey Nobody, and the main conflict deals with destiny and visions of her future.

A 7th option might be worth trying with initial edits is to just try and cut everything necessary to remove the Rey Palpatine connection, and don’t try to set up some kind of dramatic reveal. At this point we’re all trying to replace the Rey Palpatine reveal with something else, but the challenge with that will be to create new shots and dialogue that fit these alternative narratives. Something like this idea would mostly require making Rey and Kylo’s Kijimi/Destroyer and hangar interactions more action-focused and brief, as well as cutting other brief lines throughout the film.

So basically, the objective could be to collaborate on making only the most necessary changes to remove Rey Palpatine, and make other popular changes, basically as an edit that addresses the major gripes people had with the movie, without becoming too radically different from what we got.

The thing is, at least from my perspective, option 2 and option 7 are essentially the same thing. Option 2 is what you get when you cut out Palpatine being Rey’s grandfather but leave everything else. If you wanted to also remove Palpatine seeing her future and ordering her to be killed, you’d end up with a more drastic/radical edit than option 2, because you’d in effect be removing everything from Kylo and Rey’s star destroyer interactions rather than just some of it.

Maybe I’m biased because it’s the option I’m going with, but the reason it’s the option I’m going with is that it seems like the absolute easiest way to do it.

Yes, I suppose that is true. One of the stronger arguments to keep that connection is the fact we see Ochi’s ship in TFA, and if you removed the connection between Rey’s parents and Ochi, you would also have to remove the shot of that ship in the TFA vision. It also has similarities to Option 6, but with the additional backstory, right? Because basically your idea was that Palpatine saw her become powerful in the dark side, and essentially a rival, which is why he wants her killed. Option 6 basically has that as more of a recent vision, whereas Option 2 would make it something Palpatine foresaw many years before.

Like you said, the two best things Option 2 has going for it is that is a simple way to remove Rey’s familial relationship to Palpatine, and it also requires the least amount of changes for the movie. Although I do think it is an improvement over Rey Palpatine, it stills hurts Rey’s characterization in two ways: One, it makes Rey predestined for something special even before her journey begins, which I feel slightly comprises the Rey Nobody narrative we’re trying to preserve. Secondly, it retcons the idea that Rey’s parents threw her away like garbage, and we find out that they actually loved her very dearly and “sold her to protect her”. Rey having shitty parents was something I felt some fans likely related to, so I think it is a bit unfortunate to turn that around and basically give her the Harry Potter origin of loving parents dying to protect their child.

So yes, I do think you’re right that it is probably the idea that requires the least amount of changes, but I feel like it still comes with its own set of problems.

RogueLeader said:

DominicCobb said:

RogueLeader said:

Just wanted to lay out a few of the options I’ve heard floating around regarding Rey’s story in the movie, as well as share some bigger thoughts regarding Ascendent.

So, these are some of alternative reveal options I’ve heard so far:

1. Rey Palpatine (Original)
2. Rey Nobody, Palpatine saw her future and ordered to have her killed/taken.
3. Not Palpatine’s biological grandchild, but created her through the dark side, like an anti-Chosen One.
4. Rey Nobody, but she killed her parents. (Remove connection with Ochi).
5. Rey Nobody, but Kylo killed her parents.
6. Rey Nobody, and the main conflict deals with destiny and visions of her future.

A 7th option might be worth trying with initial edits is to just try and cut everything necessary to remove the Rey Palpatine connection, and don’t try to set up some kind of dramatic reveal. At this point we’re all trying to replace the Rey Palpatine reveal with something else, but the challenge with that will be to create new shots and dialogue that fit these alternative narratives. Something like this idea would mostly require making Rey and Kylo’s Kijimi/Destroyer and hangar interactions more action-focused and brief, as well as cutting other brief lines throughout the film.

So basically, the objective could be to collaborate on making only the most necessary changes to remove Rey Palpatine, and make other popular changes, basically as an edit that addresses the major gripes people had with the movie, without becoming too radically different from what we got.

The thing is, at least from my perspective, option 2 and option 7 are essentially the same thing. Option 2 is what you get when you cut out Palpatine being Rey’s grandfather but leave everything else. If you wanted to also remove Palpatine seeing her future and ordering her to be killed, you’d end up with a more drastic/radical edit than option 2, because you’d in effect be removing everything from Kylo and Rey’s star destroyer interactions rather than just some of it.

Maybe I’m biased because it’s the option I’m going with, but the reason it’s the option I’m going with is that it seems like the absolute easiest way to do it.

Yes, I suppose that is true. One of the stronger arguments to keep that connection is the fact we see Ochi’s ship in TFA, and if you removed the connection between Rey’s parents and Ochi, you would also have to remove the shot of that ship in the TFA vision. It also has similarities to Option 6, but with the additional backstory, right? Because basically your idea was that Palpatine saw her become powerful in the dark side, and essentially a rival, which is why he wants her killed. Option 6 basically has that as more of a recent vision, whereas Option 2 would make it something Palpatine foresaw many years before.

Pretty much. Your description of option 6 is a little vague and I’m not sure what that’d entail without a longer explanation so I can’t really compare.

Like you said, the two best things Option 2 has going for it is that is a simple way to remove Rey’s familial relationship to Palpatine, and it also requires the least amount of changes for the movie. Although I do think it is an improvement over Rey Palpatine, it stills hurts Rey’s characterization in two ways: One, it makes Rey predestined for something special even before her journey begins, which I feel slightly comprises the Rey Nobody narrative we’re trying to preserve. Secondly, it retcons the idea that Rey’s parents threw her away like garbage, and we find out that they actually loved her very dearly and “sold her to protect her”. Rey having shitty parents was something I felt some fans likely related to, so I think it is a bit unfortunate to turn that around and basically give her the Harry Potter origin of loving parents dying to protect their child.

Too true, unfortunately. I plan to get rid of the ‘kindly parents’ aspect at least but there’s no way around the loss of Rey Random in this version.

So yes, I do think you’re right that it is probably the idea that requires the least amount of changes, but I feel like it still comes with its own set of problems.

They all do, I’m afraid. Hopefully with time and testing and collaboration we can figure out which is not only the most feasible and presentable solution, but also the most meaningful.

That gave me an idea.

What if Rey simply doesn’t answer the “Rey who?” question? As in, the question is still asked of her, but instead of saying “Rey Skywalker,” she just takes a beat to consider it, then smiles, we get the binary sunset, and the movie ends. Or she answers with, “Just Rey.”

The reasoning being, it highlights that she’s free to decide who she wants to be from now on. She doesn’t have to be beholden to either her family (Palpatine, or if it’s a Rey Nobody edit, her parents who did nothing with their lives) or her “adoptive” family (Luke/Leia/Han) - she’s just Rey, and she gets to decide what that means for herself.

I think this does a good job of wrapping up her arc, since throughout the trilogy she’s been looking for meaning through others (her family, then Finn, then Han, then Luke, then Kylo, etc), but now she’s accepted that she can create her own meaning. Leaving Luke and Leia’s sabers at Luke’s childhood home and moving forward with one of her own creation (with a symbolic new color) also accentuates this.

What do you guys think?

I think it’s more poignant if she ultimately decides that she doesn’t need a family and forges her own path ahead. Besides, it’s hard to say the Skywalker Saga is incomplete if, at the end, there are no more Skywalkers, in blood or in name.

Yeah, that was part of my idea. Guess I forgot to mention it, my bad. I am at the end of a 12hr graveyard shift… zzzz