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The Official Greencapt 'Batman & Robin: De-Assified' Edit thread (Released) — Page 6

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Several people at several places have asked me why in the world I chose to cut out the 'Alfred dying' subplot. I thought I'd give some insight.

That has been a subject of debate between not only myself and the friend who suggested the edit, but also on many of the forums. Gough is a good actor and brought a lot to the role and to the film in general.

Perhaps its the storyteller in me, but the points about that subplot that stuck in my craw were:

1) I for some reason really dislike convienent plot elements that are inherent in bad movies. Essentially the plot suggests that the only way Batman could have saved Alfred was the random encounter and timing with Freeze. Too many things relied on that randomness. There's nothing wrong with subplots that intersect, like say if either it had been established in the previous film that Alfred was ill or that at some point Bruce had to make a choice between saving a loved one and defeating a criminal. In the latter case depth would have been added to Bruce's character- instead IMHO it plays like "Der, its a good thing Freeze is such a good doctor and scientist because I'm duh Batman and I don't know nothing..."

Which leads me to my next point on it:

2) Due to SO many characters being introduced in the film Batman essentially becomes a bit player and ends up looking like a dork. Almost every 'discovery' or 'deduction' he makes in B & R was either blatantly obvious OR due to someone else randomly being on hand. Now I don't know about YOU but I like my Dark Knight to have some brains. In another forum I made the following observation:

"Having recently watched the film about 100 times in a row (god help me!) Bruce 'expertly' puts together the clues from about 3 scenes in the film. In fact you could if you want set his detective work in a song, to the tune of the classic kid's song 'Frère Jacques':

Where is Alfred,
Where is Alfred,
Cough, cough, cough
Cough, cough, cough
The old man must be dying,
The old man must be dying,
He has Aids
He has Aids.

OK, I'm being a bit cheeky but how did Barbara figure it out (and for that matter figure *anything* out) before Bruce? Of course that reminds me of one of the other wonderful detective moments in the film- Bruce 'deducing' where Barbara went to school.... by reading the patch on her jacket! What a wizard!

Batman was SUCH an afterthought to the film! He hardly does anything worthwhile... well, at least in the theatrical cut."

and finally...

3) Whereas Gough played his scenes as he had before in previous films, classy and slighty humourously in the manner Alfred should be, Clooney (who I still think had potential) played those same scenes- to my eyes- like his gay lover was dying. Now, no homophobia intended there but I think that was misdirection from the director instead of actors tapping into the heart of the character they portrayed.
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I can't forkin' beleive it, someone actually gets it! I worship the ground you walk on Captain.

In my humble opinion, I truly think the 60's TV version of Batman paved the way for the eventual de-railment of the Batman story that is the 1997 version. My mother is a fine example of this, which, it is her fault I am the Batgeek that I am (at 40) today. She totally loved Forever and Batman & Robin because of the campiness. This is the only Batman she knows. She has never read a Batman comic. Before Beginscame out, I made her read Year Oneand now she gets it too.

Batman is notfunny.

He is dead serious.
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy."
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And he is smart.
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy."
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Sorry to hear about your mom, mydogbuddy!

Funny- *my* mom went on her own to 'Batman Begins' and she LOVED it... like as in kept calling me at work and asking questions about it or pointing out things she liked... gotta love parents!

lol
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By the way, I finally found it. *rolls eyes* I hate beta versions of newsgroup programs.

Before I was going out with my then future wife, I found "The Killing Joke" and "Batman: Year One" in her book collection.
I found a good one.

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Originally posted by: ThatArtGuy
By the way, I finally found it. *rolls eyes* I hate beta versions of newsgroup programs.

Before I was going out with my then future wife, I found "The Killing Joke" and "Batman: Year One" in her book collection.
I found a good one.


THAT, my friend, is a keeper!

(of course, to my taste, she'd also have some Sandman in there too... )
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She liked Sandman. (I got it for her from the library.)

Back on subject, I'm looking forward to seeing this as I boycotted the movie after reading some of the script before the movie was released. I haven't seen it yet, and I'm not endorsing the original product or giving anyone money for it. (Read as, rewarding someone for poor product.)
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Hey, i had a quick question for Greencapt... if you don't mind me asking, how exactly did you send the DVDs out? Priority Mail? Media Mail? First Class? just curious, and thanks in advance! :-D I'm SO EXCITED TO SEE THIS :-P
-Ruseri
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I *do mind you asking!

just kidding... they went out 1st Class mail. Knowing the USPS they'll be there probably somewhere between Sat. and Mon., maybe earlier.
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Thank you so much for the quick response... let's hope the mail system will also be as reliably fast (yeah right ). lol, i work with the postal system so i would bet that it will get to me probably monday or tuesday of next week. thanks again Greencapt!
-Ruseri
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Why be sorry for my Mom?

What I'm saying is that because of some enlightenment and Begins she loves it even more. She has seen it 3 times with me. I'm going for # 10 this weekend. (2 months from tomorrow til DVD)
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy."
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Originally posted by: mydogbuddy
Why be sorry for my Mom?

What I'm saying is that because of some enlightenment and Begins she loves it even more. She has seen it 3 times with me. I'm going for # 10 this weekend. (2 months from tomorrow til DVD)


D'oh! I didn't get that your mom had converted to 'Begins' after seeing it. Thinking she was still hooked on BF and B&R I just meant 'sorry' that she hadn't stepped into a wider Batman world yet- but now I understand she has!
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I finally figured out this newsgroups thing and now it's on it's way to my hard drive as I type. I can't wait to see it!
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

"Miss you, I will, Original Trilogy..."

"Your midichlorians are weak, Old man." -Darth Vader 2007 super deluxe extra special dipped in chocolate sauce edition.

http://prequelsstink.ytmnd.com/
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Originally posted by: Wesyeed
I finally figured out this newsgroups thing and now it's on it's way to my hard drive as I type. I can't wait to see it!


Awesome Wesyeed!!! Be sure to let us know what you think.

And on that note, a general thoughts:

I hope that when people receive their copies and watch the edit that you'll share your comments and criticisms here. This is by means intended to be some sort of self-congratulatory thread. I know- and hope- that people will like some parts of the edit as well as dislike some parts and I'd like to hear both sides. The ebb and flow of info like that just makes one strive to be better the next time around!
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I fear watching this, unfortunately... the only possibility that I might rewatch anything related to Shoemaker's "Antibatman and Nonrobin" would be if it Thurman was kicked out and the idiot in a mask was changed into Bane - i.e. the ultimate combination of self-educated intellectual and self-trained fighter. And that would require new footage to be shot... much footage...
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By the way, I don't suppose anyone saw the [url=http://www.supermanhomepage.com/movies/movies.php?topic=sup2-RIC-review]SIIRIC[/url] anywhere in any group?
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Watched it last night with my friend who is as much as Batman fan as I am a Superman fan; we make quite a world's finest combination.

I had little memory of the specifics of the movie, but my friend was quoting all the missing lines and scene; I had to insist he stop after a while. Overall it was a much improved film, though all the cut material makes several plot points quite confusing. Of course, the whole movie was pretty confusing in the first place, but in a worse way, so I guess it's for the better. The Alfred scenes, best aspect of the original version, are sorely missed, but I understand your stance with editing them; can you say contrived? Some things, although I don't remember how exactly they played out, would have been best left in the film; Batman and Robin's animosity over Ivy, and Bane. While there was no way to edit him out (and I get why you included him as little as possible), you could have used him a bit more. The whole thing with the Robin signal, for instance, makes no sense. What would've been the harm in incorporating all that together to explain it? Batgirl is a bit sudden as well; no explanation, she's just shows up and its on with the acition. To bad SHE couldn't have been edited out completely.

There are just so many good edits made, and other than the stuff I mentioned above, I agree with everything. The credit sequence was a good idea, and well executed. Here's a crazy idea though. Many cuts between scenes are awkward and sudden, which is to be expected, but I think what would really serve this edit well are some 60s-style scene transitions. I know you were going for the serious tone, but what do you think of this idea?
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Watched this last night pretty nice edit, not a fan of batman so i dont have much to say.
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Thanks for the comments CC and segaflip-

Many valid points there CC and I agree for the most part. There are some awkward moments that were destined to be there.

Bane should have been a strong enough (no pun intended) character to build a whole film around instead of throwing him in, likewise a Batgirl (I say 'a' because we all know that character *wasn't* Batgirl ). Oh and btw- did your catch the Bane bit after the credits? Its funny because I envisioned sort of a psuedo-story going on during this version of the film- including the set-up for Bane to appear in a 'sequel'.

Most of Batgirl's stuff stunk so again in 'story-in-my-head' mode I pictured that Batman, much more intelligent than Schumacher or the script gave him credit for, *knew* that Barbara was up to something and you even can (hopefully) get the impression that Bruce and Alfred baited her.

I fully admit the 'Robin-signal' makes no sense in the edit, but god help me I couldn't bring myself to put more Bane in the film! And regretfully Bane and Ivy are joined at the hip in the film.

As to the transitions, yes in the 'version' I was trying to stay as true as possible to the other 3 films in the series. My friend BatmanMD (who is obviously too good to post here anymore ) also liked the idea of more wipes, etc. I know, as stated before, that I'm going to do a version 2.0 eventually (audio commentary, etc) and I very well may re-visit severla of these points. I don't know about other editors but there is always the temptation to keep re-doing and re-doing the work. This works well to a point but eventually one will end up like George Lucas and tweaking and tweaking... a bad thing IMHO.
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That was a clever easter egg at the end. I too got the impression, if this was a real movie, that it would be a good teaser for a sequel.

Again, great job greencapt; a nice (and rare non-Star Wars) addition to my ever growing collection of fan edits. I look foward to a Special Edition or any other projects you might do in the future. I have a feeling you'll be trying your hand at Batman Forever once the DVD is released...
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Sorry folks. Had to give up with the newsgroup thing. Had too many problems. Is there a torrent available yet?

I have to see this edit!
"It's not who I am, but what I do that defines me."
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Sorry the torrent isn't up yet- it will be as soon as I can get it (unless someone can help me out sooner)
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No worries Greencapt. Look forward to seeing it real soon. Thanks.

Any ideas on your next project, by the way? As Jett at BOF mentioned, "Batman Returns : De-Bizarrified" maybe??
"It's not who I am, but what I do that defines me."
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Originally posted by: Neilneil72
No worries Greencapt. Look forward to seeing it real soon. Thanks.

Any ideas on your next project, by the way? As Jett at BOF mentioned, "Batman Returns : De-Bizarrified" maybe??


Poor Jett has taken more flak over that comment alone! LOL.

He and several other people really want me to tackle 'Batman Forever' next. I probably will unless some other bad movie inspiration comes up.