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Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 146

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Hal 9000 said:

Yeah. Old school film composition par excellence as Williams does so well requires having the final edit in front of him to work with.

Yes. It really annoyed me that the exact same musical cue was used in the wipe to credits as TFA. This was the big finale and they just recycled the same recording from TFA. It comes off so lazy.

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pleasehello said:

Hal 9000 said:

Yeah. Old school film composition par excellence as Williams does so well requires having the final edit in front of him to work with.

Yes. It really annoyed me that the exact same musical cue was used in the wipe to credits as TFA. This was the big finale and they just recycled the same recording from TFA. It comes off so lazy.

For what it’s worth I’m pretty sure it’s a new recording. Which actually makes it more inexplicable.

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I don’t know, both the Burning Homestead cue in TFA and the Vader unmasking bit they used here sounded distractingly identical to the scores I’ve heard so many times.

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So a supposed insider at TROS production has apparently spilled the beans on a heap of behind the scenes chaos where it basically seems that JJ was creatively hobbled and the film fiddled with by corporates behind his back to the point he apparently yelled in one meeting that the movie might as well say “directed and written by Lucasfilm”. I don’t think the film he wanted to make would still be one I would enjoy or accept but this just seems like more credence to how poorly the whole DT has been managed and planned (or not planned at all):

https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/eisnd8/heres_what_ive_been_told_from_a_source_that/

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It’s impossible to be sure, after all JJ helped make Star Trek Into Darkness which is very similar.

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Well, all of JJ’s movies share a lot of similarities because he’s got an identifiable, strong personal style. But Into Darkness, save for the very poor decision to sample the ending from Wrath of Khan and invert it despite it not having any set up (or real point, considering we’d already seen at this point Khan isn’t even the real bad guy in the film, more like an antihero), had some similar problems, but it also wasn’t as incoherent from a storytelling perspective. Almost all the beats it was trying to pay off were set up and investigated at least a little. It’s not a successful film overall, but there are more effective moments in it, and those moments are more competently strung together. It’s a much more consistently constructed and executed movie than The Rise of Skywalker.

I was going to click the reddit link but it appears to come from “Saltier than Crait” which isn’t a subreddit that’s ever had much worth or value as anything but a gall-bladder for Star Wars. There are much more reliable places to source information from than a place that is essentially a self-described salt mine.

Fan fiction isn’t just for people who enjoy shipping. There are lots of places online where fan-fiction is how you play the game of “this is how I would have done it if I were in charge” and so people write very involved stories using real-life figures as the characters in a Lifetime movie.

Anyway, the “Darth Vader’s Death” music is 100% from Return of the Jedi, it sounded to me like they took it from the CD, and it’s very oddly edited on top of that.

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 (Edited)

Mocata said:

I don’t know, both the Burning Homestead cue in TFA and the Vader unmasking bit they used here sounded distractingly identical to the scores I’ve heard so many times.

Maybe my post wasn’t clear. Those are indeed 100% the old recordings reused.

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Thanks for sharing, Val. I saw this earlier, but I would take this with a big grain of salt until there’s more proof to back any of their claims up.

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There’s not going to be any “proof” there. It’s a pretty ridiculous claim for a single source to be making considering how huge it is, and how many secret/behind-the-scenes rooms this story takes place in. That one source would need to be in almost all those rooms firsthand for any of this to make sense, and making sense isn’t a huge concern considering the story opens with the notion this whole thing was an Iger-led game of 4D chess whose ultimate goal was preventing WB from competing with Marvel Studios.

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Broom Kid said:

Well, all of JJ’s movies share a lot of similarities because he’s got an identifiable, strong personal style. But Into Darkness, save for the very poor decision to sample the ending from Wrath of Khan and invert it despite it not having any set up (or real point, considering we’d already seen at this point Khan isn’t even the real bad guy in the film, more like an antihero), had some similar problems, but it also wasn’t as incoherent from a storytelling perspective. Almost all the beats it was trying to pay off were set up and investigated at least a little. It’s not a successful film overall, but there are more effective moments in it, and those moments are more competently strung together. It’s a much more consistently constructed and executed movie than The Rise of Skywalker.

It’s still very similar though, so I think that the idea Disney “made JJ do this” is pretty unlikely. This is all very close to something he would make both in style, laughable content, lack of imagination.

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Broom Kid said:

Well, all of JJ’s movies share a lot of similarities because he’s got an identifiable, strong personal style. But Into Darkness, save for the very poor decision to sample the ending from Wrath of Khan and invert it despite it not having any set up (or real point, considering we’d already seen at this point Khan isn’t even the real bad guy in the film, more like an antihero), had some similar problems, but it also wasn’t as incoherent from a storytelling perspective. Almost all the beats it was trying to pay off were set up and investigated at least a little. It’s not a successful film overall, but there are more effective moments in it, and those moments are more competently strung together. It’s a much more consistently constructed and executed movie than The Rise of Skywalker.

It’s still very similar though, so I think that the idea Disney “made JJ do this” is pretty unlikely. This is all very close to something he would make both in style, laughable content, lack of imagination.

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True, and that’s a good point. I misunderstood the reason you were making the Into Darkness comparison, apologies.

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 (Edited)

For me these recent comments by the editor of TROS highlight the underlying problem with the philosophy behind this film:

As for the negative critical reception of “The Rise of Skywalker,” Brandon said, “In a time when the whole world is polarized, it should not be a film that is polarizing.Basically, the message of the film is, ‘Hey you know what? You can be bad and good can come into your life. And maybe if you’re open-minded to it, extraordinary things can change your mind. And you have to believe there’s always hope.’”

One of the biggest complaints thrown at “Rise of Skywalker” is that the movie is pure fan service, which is not a claim Brandon will try to fight. “Look, sure, it’s fan service,” the editor said, “[but] if you didn’t service the fans, it would be, ‘Oh, he didn’t go along with the history of ‘Star Wars’ and what it all means.’”

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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So is that the editor admitting that Kylo Ren’s was the primary character arc for not just this movie but the trilogy?

Because that’s…

Seriously, the inability to look at the story through any other eyes but those is a big problem.

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Mocata said:

Broom Kid said:

Well, all of JJ’s movies share a lot of similarities because he’s got an identifiable, strong personal style. But Into Darkness, save for the very poor decision to sample the ending from Wrath of Khan and invert it despite it not having any set up (or real point, considering we’d already seen at this point Khan isn’t even the real bad guy in the film, more like an antihero), had some similar problems, but it also wasn’t as incoherent from a storytelling perspective. Almost all the beats it was trying to pay off were set up and investigated at least a little. It’s not a successful film overall, but there are more effective moments in it, and those moments are more competently strung together. It’s a much more consistently constructed and executed movie than The Rise of Skywalker.

It’s still very similar though, so I think that the idea Disney “made JJ do this” is pretty unlikely. This is all very close to something he would make both in style, laughable content, lack of imagination.

Bingo!

And as we saw with Solo, there is little the studio can do to an uncooperative director other than fire them. And the backlash from the Director’s Guild would be nasty and jeopardize all future projects if they tried to interfere any other way.

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Broom Kid said:

So is that the editor admitting that Kylo Ren’s was the primary character arc for not just this movie but the trilogy?

Where is she saying that? I kind of took it to mean not just Kylo but the Rey Palpatine thing.

Because that’s…

Seriously, the inability to look at the story through any other eyes but those is a big problem.

I don’t really see how Kylo Ren being the primary character arc for the trilogy manifests in any of the films, and certainly not in this one.

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 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

Broom Kid said:

So is that the editor admitting that Kylo Ren’s was the primary character arc for not just this movie but the trilogy?

Where is she saying that? I kind of took it to mean not just Kylo but the Rey Palpatine thing.

I started to type out “or that Rey is ‘bad’ but because she had hope and kept an open mind she was ‘good’” but decided against it and deleted that, because that’s such a myopic/misguided read of her character I didn’t think that’s what they were referencing. Rey being descended of Palpatine doesn’t make her “bad” at her core/nature, especially since her parents were also not evil.

If the main point of the movie is 1-to-1 describing Kylo Ren’s character and arc it’s hard not to think that was the primary concern going into the project. What was said was :

Basically, the message of the film is, ‘Hey you know what? You can be bad and good can come into your life. And maybe if you’re open-minded to it, extraordinary things can change your mind. And you have to believe there’s always hope.’”

The message of the film is Kylo Ren’s arc. There’s not really any other way to parse that statement, because it doesn’t really track with anyone else. Certainly not Rey, because she was never “bad” and good didn’t come into her life, she was the good that came into everyone else’s.

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I think Poe put into words he arc of this Trilogy in TROS - saving what our parents fought for. Mythically and story wise this fits. It fits having Lando back and the OT trio playing such an important part. Kylo/Ben fits into that. Rey does to because her parents were fighting against Palpatine like everyone else.

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 (Edited)

Broom Kid said:

DominicCobb said:

Broom Kid said:

So is that the editor admitting that Kylo Ren’s was the primary character arc for not just this movie but the trilogy?

Where is she saying that? I kind of took it to mean not just Kylo but the Rey Palpatine thing.

I started to type out “or that Rey is ‘bad’ but because she had hope and kept an open mind she was ‘good’” but decided against it and deleted that, because that’s such a myopic/misguided read of her character I didn’t think that’s what they were referencing. Rey being descended of Palpatine doesn’t make her “bad” at her core/nature, especially since her parents were also not evil.

If the main point of the movie is 1-to-1 describing Kylo Ren’s character and arc it’s hard not to think that was the primary concern going into the project. What was said was :

Basically, the message of the film is, ‘Hey you know what? You can be bad and good can come into your life. And maybe if you’re open-minded to it, extraordinary things can change your mind. And you have to believe there’s always hope.’”

The message of the film is Kylo Ren’s arc. There’s not really any other way to parse that statement, because it doesn’t really track with anyone else. Certainly not Rey, because she was never “bad” and good didn’t come into her life, she was the good that came into everyone else’s.

I guess that makes sense, but I’m not really sure what conclusion you’re coming to from that fact. I doubt she even means that that’s the only message they were aiming for - in the full quote she says “In a time when the whole world is polarized, it should not be a film that is polarizing” before that bit. So I think she’s just highlighting that notion because she’s saying the film is promoting coming together rather than polarization. And that is an idea the film is trying to get at (poorly), working together.

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I hope to see everyone shut up about an Abrams cut (not you guys, I mean everyone on social media).

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I think it’s reasonable to at least hope for a good amount of deleted scenes

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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I don’t care what they call it or the political implications, I would like to see an extended cut with bits and pieces plugged back in. Doesn’t even need to change anything.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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RogueLeader said:

Honestly I think the editor is bullshitting around the answer. The way she answered it just seemed rather weird. Sure, that could’ve been intended to be the last shot when they filmed it, but was who was in the shot always the same?

I don’t think John Boyega and Mark Hamill have ever realized how their negative comments can be lightning rods for online bullying. They can say tons of complimentary things and people will ignore them, but as soon as they say anything negative it becomes fuel for online attacks.

NeverarGreat said:

The map to Luke is discovered on Jakku by an old friend of Luke’s, and the first person BB-8 carrying the map runs into is the granddaughter of Palpatine, who is in speeder distance of the Millennium Falcon and happens to use this to escape the planet and they happen to be picked up within five minutes by Han Solo and brought to a place that has Luke’s old lightsaber in the basement. All of these things, save the connection between Han and the Falcon, are complete coincidences.

Another reason why Rey Nobody would’ve made a lot more sense!

I would agree to that, but this means that either she had training before in the force, or JJ simply wouldn’t have her beat Kylo Ren in TFA. You cant be both a nobody, have no previous training and be great at everything.

I defended Rey as a character when she was proficient im every that she did, with the underlying assumption that there is a reason for her to know all of this. The force isn’t a magical gift giving plot device, in past movies it was required time, effort and lots of tears before someone was good with the force.

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Valheru_84 said:

So a supposed insider at TROS production has apparently spilled the beans on a heap of behind the scenes chaos where it basically seems that JJ was creatively hobbled and the film fiddled with by corporates behind his back to the point he apparently yelled in one meeting that the movie might as well say “directed and written by Lucasfilm”. I don’t think the film he wanted to make would still be one I would enjoy or accept but this just seems like more credence to how poorly the whole DT has been managed and planned (or not planned at all):

https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/eisnd8/heres_what_ive_been_told_from_a_source_that/

Oof, that drama really is…
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Saltier than Crait
(Ba dum tiss…)
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(Honestly, I’m so overwhelmed after reading that post that I cant find the right way to express my thoughts on it, maybe some other time.)

this post has been edited.