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Lucas prequel decisions in hindsight

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When Lucas finally decided to create the prequel trilogy back in 1994 I don't think he set out to make disappointing films. No filmmaker plans to make bad movies. 11 years later, we can look back at what might have gone differently had Lucas made some different decisions. (By the way, I think Ep III was a good film, not great but good).

Fateful choices Lucas made in making the prequels:

EPISODE I:
- forgoing his original late 70's vision for the prequel trilogy: According to original SW producer Gary Kurtz, EPISODE 1 was to focus on the origins of the Jedi Knights and how they are initiated and trained. EPISODE 2 would introduction and show the development of Obi-Wan Kenobi. EPISODE 3 was to introduce and show the life of Darth Vader. Lucas threw all that out the window in 94.
- deciding to begin the story with Anakin as a 9 year old boy. Originally he was going to be a teenager.
- choosing Jake Lloyd over Mason Gamble to play Anakin.
- casting Natalie Portman. An inexperienced child actress at the time who had no sci-fi or action film experience to play a pivotal role in the movies.
- deciding to start the trilogy with an entire episode about a dispute over taxation of trade routes on one small planet. Instead of diving right into the beginning of the Clone Wars.
- replacing Han Solo as the "comic relief" character in the film with a CGI creature named Jar Jar Binks.
- changing the force from an energy field to midi-chlorians
- saying Anakin built C3PO.
- Anakin's "virgin birth."
- going ahead with shooting/principal photography even though the script wasn't finished.
- not bringing in an outside screenwriter to help polish the screenplay. (He tried, but waited until filming began to contact "Empire/Jedi" scribe Lawrence Kasdan.
- not bringing in an outside director or at the very least someone to work with the actors on understanding the complicated plot and character motivation.
- not going with his initial idea for Ep I which would have emphasized story over action sequences. Originally the Episode wasn't going to end with a huge "Jedi" type battle montage.
- not brining in an outside editor to help assemble the film. Someone to fill the role left vacant by Marcia Lucas, Richard Chew and Paul Hirsch after "SW" and "ANH."

EPISODE II
- Again, beginning principal photography before the script was completed.
- using Jonathan Hales as a screenwriter instead of Lawrence Kasdan or Frank Darabont.
- forgoing his original vision for Episode II which was supposed to be about Obi-Wan Kenobi.
- Ignoring and removing most of Hales contributions to the updated script.
- Casting the extremely inexperienced (especially with big screen films) Hayden Christenson instead of Ryan Phillipe.
- Deciding to make Boba Fett's Dad the template for the stormtroopers and wasting the 2nd act of the movie explaining this.
- only showing one scene with Palpatine counseling Anakin.
- titling the movie "Attack of the Clones" instead of "The Clone Wars."
- again, not bringing in an outside director like Irvin Kershner. Or a Dialogue Coach to at the very least work with Natalie and Hayden on their romantic scenes.
- not using an outside editor again.

EPISODE III
- for the last time, going ahead with production even though the script wasn't completely finished.
- forgoing his original idea which was to start the film with a 7 planet montage showing the clone wars being fought.
- not having the space battle be more about the Federation fleet vs. the Republic cruisers.
- introducing the idea that Palpatine created Anakin by manipulating
midi-chlorians.
- putting the wookies in.
- having half of the movie focus on the capture of General Grievous.

I remember reading in the "Making of Ep III" book that when Lucas was on the set of the newly constructed Tantive IV he suggested they go back and re-film "A New Hope." It's too bad Lucas can't go back and refilm the first 2 episodes...
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HOW CAN ONE EXPECT TO MAKE A DECENT FILM WHEN THE SCRIPT STILL ISN'T FINSHED ALTHOUGH SHOOTING HAS BEGUN ??? I THINK THAT THIS WAS PROBABLY GL'S BIGGEST MISTAKE. OH, AND "FASTER AND MORE INTENSE" IS NOT A GOOD WAY TO DIRECT ACTORS.

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Originally posted by: PSYCHO_DAYV
HOW CAN ONE EXPECT TO MAKE A DECENT FILM WHEN THE SCRIPT STILL ISN'T FINSHED ALTHOUGH SHOOTING HAS BEGUN ??? I THINK THAT THIS WAS PROBABLY GL'S BIGGEST MISTAKE. OH, AND "FASTER AND MORE INTENSE" IS NOT A GOOD WAY TO DIRECT ACTORS.


Aparently you have't heard of a Peter Sellers movie called "The Party". It's one of the best comedies ever made, and they had absolutely NO script while shooting the film.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
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Aparently you have't heard of a Peter Sellers movie called "The Party". It's one of the best comedies ever made, and they had absolutely NO script while shooting the film.


Peter Sellers=genius

George Lucas=not so genius
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Personally, I didn't really find his 70s concept for the prequels all that interesting. I mean, he could barely tell about how Vader came about in three movies, I can't see him doing it in just one. And I think that focusing each on just one topic would be pretty boring.

One thing that you simply nailed (as well as many other people) was his lack of another writer, as well as following their suggestions. If only the other prequels could have been like Episode III - despite its own flaws.

Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here, this is the war room!

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Originally posted by: jawaewokgungan
- choosing Jake Lloyd over Mason Gamble to play Anakin.

Did Dennis the Menace even audition for the role?
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Originally posted by: jawaewokgungan
- casting Natalie Portman. An inexperienced child actress at the time who had no sci-fi or action film experience to play a pivotal role in the movies.

'Inexperienced'? Oh, do you mean 'critically acclaimed'? Actually, since Natalie Portman had both sci-fi and action film experience before playing Amidala, I think you must be thinking of a different teen actress and movie, my guess is Carrie Fisher in ANH.
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Originally posted by: jawaewokgungan
- Casting the extremely inexperienced (especially with big screen films) Hayden Christenson instead of Ryan Phillipe.

OK, I think I know why I didn't understand where you were coming from in the previous quote, you think an actor or actress needs to appear in 12 films before they are considered 'experienced'. In my world, six cinematic releases is experienced, not 'extremely inexperienced'.

I think the casting was great, George Lucas simply isn't a good actor director, something he himself has admitted numerous times. The only alternate reality I can consider had Lucas not made the decisions you've posted is that you'd be complaining about how he should have cast Jake Lloyd over Dennis the Menace and Hayden Christensen over Ryan Phillipe!

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Originally posted by: bad_karma24
Personally, I didn't really find his 70s concept for the prequels all that interesting. I mean, he could barely tell about how Vader came about in three movies, I can't see him doing it in just one. And I think that focusing each on just one topic would be pretty boring.

One thing that you simply nailed (as well as many other people) was his lack of another writer, as well as following their suggestions. If only the other prequels could have been like Episode III - despite its own flaws.


Yeah, I don't particularly like that plan for the prequels, either. It almost seems like non-connected documentaries rather than a trilogy. At least the prequels as they are now tell some kind of story. But that layout seems more like:

"And now we see the Jedi in their natural habitat... let's watch!" Episode I
"You ever wondered where Obi-Wan Kenobis come from? Follow me!" Episode II
"And now... the scourge of all humanity! Darth Vader!" Episode III

Seems more like featurettes than movies.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Gillean
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Originally posted by: jawaewokgungan
- casting Natalie Portman. An inexperienced child actress at the time who had no sci-fi or action film experience to play a pivotal role in the movies.

'Inexperienced'? Oh, do you mean 'critically acclaimed'? Actually, since Natalie Portman had both sci-fi and action film experience before playing Amidala, I think you must be thinking of a different teen actress and movie, my guess is Carrie Fisher in ANH.



Yeah, really... have you ever seen Leon (aka The Professional... I don't know what the damn thing is called anymore)? She was about 10 or and did an awesome job.

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I don't see how having Wookiees in Episode III is a bad thing?
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Probably because it was gratuitous and just there so people would go, "Ooh, Chewbacca." There are also people who say it ruins continuity because Chewbacca would believe in the Force having worked with Yoda and maybe objected when Han was making fun of Ben for it. Hell, he even makes fun of Ben himself when they're in the Death Star. If we can accept what Peter Mayhew really said in the mask as canon, then his growling there mean, "That old man is daft!"

Plus, I saw that movie twice, and both times, I just totally stopped paying attention at the Wookiee battle. I didn't mean to, but it just wasn't interesting enough to hold my attention.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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The Wookie battle definetely seemed like an after thought, as well as Alderaan, as if Lucas realized, "Damn, we don't have that stuff in there! Better just throw it in..."

Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here, this is the war room!

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Originally posted by: ricarleite
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Originally posted by: PSYCHO_DAYV
HOW CAN ONE EXPECT TO MAKE A DECENT FILM WHEN THE SCRIPT STILL ISN'T FINSHED ALTHOUGH SHOOTING HAS BEGUN ??? I THINK THAT THIS WAS PROBABLY GL'S BIGGEST MISTAKE. OH, AND "FASTER AND MORE INTENSE" IS NOT A GOOD WAY TO DIRECT ACTORS.


Aparently you have't heard of a Peter Sellers movie called "The Party". It's one of the best comedies ever made, and they had absolutely NO script while shooting the film.


YOU CAN ADDLIB COMEDIES. YOU CAN'T ADDLIB ACTION/SCI-FI/FANTASY MOVIES.

"I'VE GROWN TIRED OF ASKING, SO THIS WILL BE THE LAST TIME..."
The Mangler Bros. Psycho Dayv Armchaireviews Notes on Suicide

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I think the big problems of the prequals have to do an overreliance on CGI technology and poor scripting beginning with Anakin's age and the way they handled the Clone Wars. I don't find kids in movies very interesting to begin with. Anakin in Phantom Meace often seems like an afterthought. He has the big pod race, but the rest of the movie he is just following the Jedi around. The way he destroys the ship is handled very poorly. I don't hate Phantom Menace as much as others do, but it does not work as a Star Wars movie.
The Clone Wars as a name sounds reallty cool. The way Luke says, "You fought in the Clone Wars" in the first movie makes it all the more interesting. It turns out that the Clone Wars is an insurrection brought about by the Emperor and the Clones fought on the Republic side. It should have just been called the Insurrection or the Seperatists War.
The dialogue in the original trilogy was actually quite good. You might have a bad line here and there, but it worked for the most part. The dialogue in the sequals is wooden and boring.
As for the cast, Ewan McGregor, Liam Neeson, and Natalie Portman are great actors most directors ould kill for. Portman has been turning out great performances since 1994's Leon, the Professional and Beautiful Girls the next year. However, she sometimes ican be a little wooden. Jake Lloyd was a kid and you basically rolling the dice when casting kids in general. Hayden Christiansen is a good actor in the two other movies I've seen him in. However, he played Anakin the exact same way he played his Life as a House character, who was a sexually confused, drug using, father hating bratty teenager.
Attack of the Clones was poorly written and worst of all, boring. It plodded along with its banal dialogue and wooded acting. There were moments were it looked like it would get better, but it didn't. Then comes the arena scene and I was pumped to see all the Jedi do their thing. Well, a few of the Jedi looked good, but the rest looked like they were taken out of Central Casting for the day, were given lightsabers, and told to wave the lightsaber around. Then comes the duel with Yoda, who looked like a green Sonic Hedgehog bouncing off everything.
Revenge of the Sith was a slight improvement, but the dialogue was still bad and it seemed like every other scene was Anakin returning to Padme and their conversation was: "I don't want you to die."
"I'm not going to die"
"I don't want you to die"
"I'm not going to die"
"I can make it so you don't die"
In my opinion, the hyped up lightsaber duel was a big disappointment.
I don't care about the midichlorines or Anakin having no father because they are really not dwelt on or important beyond giving Qui Gon the motivation to take Anakin with him.
Also, the way that Lucas treats C3P0 is horrible. He thinks it's funny to have Anakin build him, to have Anakin steal him from the Lars, and to have him as humor during the battle in Attack. I don't think he would have done that with a human character.
The two of the main villians(other than Palpatine) of the last two movies were poorly concieved. Dooku, other than his name and the fact that he is played be Christopher Lee, is not interesting and is mainly a place filler for Vader. General Grevous is a total bust. I don't think I should be expected to watch a poorly hyped cartoon series in order to find out about a character.
Finally, the overreliance of CGI. It should be used to enhance the story not as a substitute for it. The actors don't like working with it. In, the original movies, Lucas had to come up with solutions when something he wanted could not be acheived and the films were better for it. In the prequals, it looks as if the first thought was, "That would look cool. Get ILM on that." and the story was secondary.
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Glad to see I'm not the only person who thought that lightsaber duel was crap. They should have cut everything but the last few minutes and moved the location away from those stupid little droids inches above the lava to a slightly more realistic place. You can only take suspension of disbelief so far, and they totally lost me there.

As for 3PO, I agree that he was treated like crap, and his lines were the most vile pieces of garbage in Attack of the Clones ("What a drag!" "I'm quite besides myself!" "Die, Jedi dogs!" Puh-leeze! I'm surprised Anthony Daniels didn't storm off the soundstage at that point.), I don't see why you'd say he would treat the human characters any better. All the rest of them go through poorly constructed, continuity-threatening backstories and horrific dialogue.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Now I might be going away from the main topic for a while - and at the same time speaking about the topic - but do you guys remember the reviews for TPM and AOTC when they came out? Now, correct me if I'm wrong or if you guys experienced anything different, but for a week or two it had a major fan apreciation, specially AOTC. During the first week it had a +-8.7 rank on IMBD, along with reviews praising that SW was back and stuff like that... And now, it's the biggest crap of all. Now, I think TPM is worse than AOTC, and AS MOVIES, ignoraing the whole SW thing, they are actually good movies, and somewhat entertaining.

Now my question is, what has made the SW comunity change their minds in over a week? Peer pressure into saying the prequels were bad, specially AOTC where this was more acentuated and noticeable? Don't you think we are being intimidated into saying that the prequels suck?

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't like them. I don't enjoy the prequels and I almost don't consider them to be SW canon. OT and PT are two distinct things, and while the PT is actually entertaining and watchable as movies (although irritating and dull at some points), they are not as good as the OT and not as... how can i say... star-warish...
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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I think eyecandy and john williams create that effect. Of course there are other factors such as hype and nostalgia and the OT's existence, but eyecandy and John williams is where it all begins. They can only cover up so many weak spots with them though...The stunts, music and visuals were brilliant. Williams, ILM and the stunt guys did what Lucas did not, and that was actually put an effort into creating something unforgettable and top quality. What brings them down is their creator unfortunately. Even more, the films were altered for the dvd so the original releases don't exist anymore... but no one cares to preserve them anyway... Where the films fail is at their heart. the main story is so dull and badly acted that none of the amazing visuals could save it on repeat viewings. All the little winks at the fans didn't help at all either. Star wars tales should be an escape into another galaxy far far away.... not filled with referrences to 'films' from decades ago. boba fett as kid was dumb, chewbacca being in ep 3 was dumb, threepio being built by anakin was dumb... etc. cameo etc. blatant forshadowing etc.... there's so much more to loath.

I've read on several sites now that Hayden's so monotone because he's imitating vader. I guess he was imitating him in Life as a House too. That dialogue coach really worked wonders in episode 3 for hayden. Natalie still gave a terrible performance and some believe star wars deserves better than that near-fanfilm quality... not just the acting, but the editing, and dialogue too... heck, the whole thing... scrap it and start over, I say.

I love the clone wars cartoons. If that had been re-worked into episodes 1 and 2, pulling plot elements from both and incorporating them into the story of the clone wars, with a stable main bad guy throughout all three films like dooku in it who then gets killed in the last one and replaced by vader... This new trilogy would have had a chance of surpassing the original.

The secret to immortality shouldn't seem like some throw-away afterthought at the end of this trilogy, but it did. And that's thanks to inept storytelling, wasting time to tell stories about podracing, tax disputes and midichlorian counts...

I hope that someone, maybe Lucas's son, will remake the PT some day. Like Lucas' says the OOT was about, "the children redeem their father's mistakes." or something like that.
He big in nothing important in good elephant.

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Even more, the films were altered for the dvd so the original releases don't exist anymore.


I've got the collector's edition widescreen VHS of TPM if anyone wants to make a transfer.

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Originally posted by: bad_karma24
The Wookie battle definetely seemed like an after thought, as well as Alderaan, as if Lucas realized, "Damn, we don't have that stuff in there! Better just throw it in..."


I'm pretty sure it got cut down to almost nothing in the editing. There's a Hasbro toy of Yoda riding some giant Kashyyk dragonfly and that certainly wasn't in the movie! Since George used to talk about how he wished he could have done a huge Wookiee ground battle in the OT, you'd think they would have gone all out.
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Originally posted by: Nanner Split
I've got the collector's edition widescreen VHS of TPM if anyone wants to make a transfer.


There are actually a handful of existing DVD transfers of the theatrical TPM, NTSC versions from the laserdiscs and PAL versions from digital television.

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Originally posted by: Gillean
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Originally posted by: jawaewokgungan
- choosing Jake Lloyd over Mason Gamble to play Anakin.

Did Dennis the Menace even audition for the role?
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Originally posted by: jawaewokgungan
- casting Natalie Portman. An inexperienced child actress at the time who had no sci-fi or action film experience to play a pivotal role in the movies.

'Inexperienced'? Oh, do you mean 'critically acclaimed'? Actually, since Natalie Portman had both sci-fi and action film experience before playing Amidala, I think you must be thinking of a different teen actress and movie, my guess is Carrie Fisher in ANH.
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Originally posted by: jawaewokgungan
q]

Natalie Portman wasn't exactly up on sci-fi lore when she was cast in the prequels, though that probably shouldn't have been a requirement.

I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

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Was the script for The Phantom Menace really not completed done when they started shooting? The documentary on the DVD shows them having a script read through prior to filming as well as extensive storyboarding. If it wasn't complete, it must have been very damn close to it.

And I also don't know where the Mason Gamble as Anakin came from. Was he up for the role? It appeared to be up between some brown haired midget, some blonde kid (not Mason), and Jake Lloyd.
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I actually like that outline of the Prequels. I could see the Jedi being a new thing(which is what I'm assuming. Though, Yoda would have to be the leader of the whole thing who learned everything when he was young.) Instead of a well organized structured army with 1,000's of Jedi. It would also help mesh the two trilogies together. ("Your sad devotion to that ancient religion" Tarkin's comment makes it seem like it was something that happened quickly and, was soon dismantled thereafter.[I'm talking about the Jedi order not the teachings themselves.] Sort of like holding onto an old fad) Especially if Yoda, Obiwan and, Anakin were the one's who started the order(It does make more sense that Palpatine would be trying to seduce one of the founders. Then, some kid that has a higher midiclorien count, so they dub him "the chosen one", and got lucky destroying a Driod battle ship. Oh, yeah and, he has no father.). This has actually inspired me to write up a what could have been Episode I, II, III. If you want to read it PM me. I don't want to post it here it's a bit to long and, I'm not finished yet. Plus, I don't want to take over this thread.

Anyways, personally I feel that Lucas's decisions deal greatly with his family life. His marriage was probably going great through SW and, Empire. Then, there were probably problems with his marriage during Jedi. He built back up ILM and, everything after paying 24 million to his ex. He adopts a son and, decides to do Star Wars again. So, Anakin is about his son's age(mabye at the son's request). Then, Anakin grow's up along with his son.


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