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Post #1295677

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Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD *
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7-Sep-2019, 4:47 PM
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7-Sep-2019, 4:55 PM
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DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

TomArrow said:

OutboundFlight said:

I must ask, why do some claim “The Last Jedi is one the worst films ever”? I’m not attacking this opinion by any measure… but I don’t understand it at all. As someone more negative than positive towards TLJ, I must admit it creates a fun, cohesive narrative with masterful visuals. Are you that angry about Luke? Because you might argue the same has happened to Obi-Wan and Yoda, two legends who were reduced to a life of shit. I think some moments are flat-out “bad” (Luke trying to kill Ben, etc) but are those moments really worse than Jar Jar stepping in poop?

I just don’t think it’s a good movie in any way. It ignores everything that TFA set up, deliberately subverts reasonable expectations without being original while doing so, introduces very unlikable characters (imo) out of nowhere who make terrible decisions but are presented as heroes, has no world building or explanation of TFA’s world building, the main villains are turned into a giant goofy joke, highly illogical and boring main plotline, illogical character behavior, an entire illogical side plot that ultimately adds nothing to the story, no character arcs worth caring for … I could go on and on, but I’m sure it’s all been said before. Add to that the arrogant and condescending way in which the media and the filmmaker reacted to criticisms.

Personally, as someone who likes Star Wars, but isn’t really a fan, I could probably forgive a couple of things, like Luke, but it’s just a terrible movie in every other way too imo, even as a standalone. Except, as you said, the visuals. Disney of course has masters of the visual craft at its disposal, and John Williams’ score is naturally also always on point. It’s sure somewhat enjoyable to watch a single time, but that’s it for me.

Not saying it ruined Star Wars for me or anything dramatic like that, just that I find it hard to care about this sequel storyline after it.

About Jar Jar … well, I was a kid when I was watching the movies, so maybe I’m more forgiving out of nostalgia, but even so, that was just one part of mostly decent movies imo.

And a lot of us don’t agree and still can’t understand where you are coming from.

But this is supposed to be about TROS, not rehashing TLJ. I’d be curious to see how opinions change in the next 10 years (or just after TROS is out). For a long time TESB was considered the weakest movie of that trilogy and now it is considered the best. I’m hoping that TROS has a solid ending that die hard and casual fans love. If it goes how the supposed leaks are leaning I think it has a good chance.

TESB was never considered the weakest of the OT. For a while it was considered weaker than SW in some circles, but ROTJ was immediately seen as inferior to both with its more kid friendly approach, and its rehashing of the Death Star finale. By 1983 Lucas’ reputation was already more a toymaker, than filmmaker/artist.

Not in my circles buddy. For years none of use liked TESB as much as ANH or ROTJ. We just didn’t. And we were not alone. I have found plenty documenting that this was widespread. The fanboys in 1980 weren’t too thrilled with TESB. It had some great stuff, but it wasn’t ANH. When ROTJ came out, that was more like ANH. Today my opinion is very different and I’m not really in touch with many people from those days to check out their current opinions of the films. My point is that opinions of films do not always remain the same and some opinions fade into the background of history.

We’ve been seeing this exact thing with the prequels. A new generation is here that feels differently about it than many of the older generation. They aren’t seeing some of the things as flaws. I have never seen the Ewoks as a flaw. I’ve always loved the dichotomy of their looks vs. their bravery and ferocity. And the 2nd Death Star only makes sense. If you develop a superweapon and your enemies destroy it, you build a bigger one. Not only is that realistic, but very in keeping with Flash Gordon.