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Info: Mono soundtracks that were butchered with 5.1 remixes in later releases — Page 4

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The Decimator said:

Smokey and the Bandit: Another film with altered sounds for its stereo remix, but luckily, the recent Blu-Ray features the mono.

Only on the U.S. Blu-ray!

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Fantasia suffered, man. For those unaware of the film’s troubled sound history, the long and the short of it is that the original nitrate stems, that made possible the final 4-track Fantasound mix, no longer exist. All that was left for sound engineer Terry Porter to work with for the Dolby remix in 1990 was a magnetic copy of the original mix made in 1955 (only one Fantasound print had survived by that point, so Disney worked fast to preserve what was left). In addition, he used notes by Stokowski himself that told mixers where to pan the sound and when during the film, so it would say things like, “Left wall…,” “Kill the fronts…,” “Back only…,” and so forth in order to correlate the movement of the sound with the movement on and off screen. For instance, the church bells near the end of Bald Mountain ring from the back of the theater as they were meant to, originally causing Carthay Circle Theatre patrons to turn around in their seats in complete disbelief that they were hearing what sounded like actual church bells coming from the back of the room.

Armed with Stokowski’s copious mixing notes, the resulting remix was as faithful a recreation of the intended Fantasound as anybody has ever gotten. So far, VHS tapes and LaserDiscs of that same reissue, fed through a receiver with Dolby Pro-Logic decoding, are the only way you can hear that mix, with hard pans to the left, right, front, and back. Pretty cool stuff.

The 60th Anniversary Edition DVD from 2000 has a 5.0 mix that, on paper, looked like it was going to be a discrete version of the same Dolby mix from the 50th anniversary edition, which would’ve been welcome, but the score never steps out of the front to move around the room as it did before. Plus, it sounds insanely compressed, even in DTS.

The 70th Anniversary Edition Blu-ray from 2010 has a 7.1 mix that is a truly curious case. The left/center/right Fantasound audio was not only DNR’d to death but also thrown to the back of the room (???) while a mono downmix of that very same information overpowers it from the front, narrowing if not completely erasing the original stereo image during playback. It’s like this throughout the entire film, not once moving around the room the way that it should. As a result of the previously mentioned (and excessive) DNR’ing, details in quieter passages have been filtered out along with most of the noise floor, and now sound muddied. What’s more, there’s this strange series of chirpy, crackling artifacts found in the upper frequency region during loud passages that’s almost impossible to ignore. A seriously troubled mix this one is, and to think it got a 5/5 on several well-known Blu-ray review sites.

I’ve heard professional captures of the magnetic stereo mix from a SuperScope reissue (not from poita’s upcoming project, but from a collector who owns a 1963 stereo print) and the film is much better heard this way than through anything else officially available to consumers. In addition, Fantasia also had what sounded like a dedicated mono mix-- it wasn’t just a fold down of the 4-track stereo mix. Different sections of the orchestra were better prioritized here than they were in the stereo version, and because of several technical tells I am thoroughly convinced that what you’re hearing really is a dedicated mix that sourced the original stems before they were forever lost to time… with an exception made to what sounds like an alternate take for “Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy” from The Nutcracker Suite; doesn’t line up with the stereo mix at all. Julietta Novis’ first “Ave Maria” towards the end of the film sounds like a different take, too, but the rest of her vocals and the segment in general sounds otherwise identical to the stereo version.

It’s a shame neither the mag stereo nor the optical mono tracks were just given as clean a capture as possible and offered as a listening option; both sound great.

“You missed! How could you miss-- he was THREE FEET in front of you!”
– Mushu

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 (Edited)

This wasn’t originally in mono but IMO the surround mix on the BD for NeverEnding Story is a big effed up mess. Not so much sound effects changed or whatever but just over all mixed entirely different than the original. Reverb added or in some cases removed or certain sounds that are very clear in one case but not the other. Examples.

Original

https://youtu.be/HfKT_ndfNl8

BD

https://youtu.be/IBUOACCdZi8

Note there’s reverb in Falkor’s voice in the original.

Original

https://youtu.be/kOPAW7Em8mE

BD

https://youtu.be/5sEZmMeH96Q

Way too much reverb added in the BD mix in this scene. If it matters some streaming versions still use the original mix for this film.

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I can now add Das Boot onto here

The 5.1 remix created for the director’s cut is vastly inferior to the original stereo mix. The original mix (thankfully included on the blu ray for the theatrical version) was knock your socks off loud and impactful. The 5.1 remix has muted explosions and bad dialogue mixing (everyone sounds like they’re underwater)

Raccoons

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NeonBible said:

SpacemanDoug said:

(everyone sounds like they’re underwater)

😄

Sorry couldn’t help but laugh at that!

yea I’ll admit I did kinda make a joke about it, but really everyone does sound muffled in the remix

Raccoons

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Apparently Black Christmas (1974) has suffered a lot in its 5.1 remaster. Not only are there added sounds and music, but the audio is also out of sync!

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All of the official 5.1 remixes of Police Story (1985) are a joke.

Improperly mixed and muffled sounding dialogue in the Media Asia mix, crappy new stock sound effects in the Fortune Star DVD mix, and even crappier ones in the Fortune Star 4K mix.

Thankfully a more tasteful fan 5.1 mix by IcePrick exists.

So, a new book came out and we learned so much, and it is called, “Anguilosaurus, Killer of the Living”.

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crissrudd4554 said:

Think I’ve shared this before. Not a comparison of a surround mix to mono but IMO the mono track on the BD of Frankenstein is very flat.

https://vimeo.com/295910511

Ah yes I’m quite familiar with this one, I own the 1999 DVD myself and despite being mastered too quiet it sounds far better and more lifelike than the blu-ray

Raccoons

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SpacemanDoug said:

crissrudd4554 said:

Think I’ve shared this before. Not a comparison of a surround mix to mono but IMO the mono track on the BD of Frankenstein is very flat.

https://vimeo.com/295910511

Ah yes I’m quite familiar with this one, I own the 1999 DVD myself and despite being mastered too quiet it sounds far better and more lifelike than the blu-ray

Yep I have that DVD as well and definitely agree with you.

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Has anyone heard to laserdisc versions of Godfather 1 & 2’s mono mixes? How do they compare to the mono mixes on the Blu-rays?

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The Terminator is always on the top of my list and those new foley effects in Jaws were right behind.

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crissrudd4554 said:

SpacemanDoug said:

crissrudd4554 said:

Blu Ray 1977 said:

crissrudd4554 said:

I believe Fast Times at Ridgemont High had some changes as well. Some home video releases had different songs due to licensing but I think this was resolved by the time the film made it to DVD. The surround mix first introduced on the 2005 DVD had some minor effects changes I believe. That DVD as well as the BD does not have the mono. The original DVD and the High School Reunion DVD as far as I know has the correct original mono!

It’s me Pete 1972! You remember when we commented on the Jaws videos? Looks like another film is getting the audio revisionism treatment. According to Digital Bits and some fans, Batman 89’s Dolby Atmos mix has a lot of changes with the sound effects. Gun shots have been altered and the starting up of the Batmobile is changed too. Also Digital Bits said that the Dolby 5.1 on the 4K is a downmix and not the 5.1 that was on the previous Blu Ray.

Figures. (Rolls eyes) Apparently the 4K release of Blade Runner also has audio revisions though I’m not sure off hand what they are.

And yes I do remember you. Nice to see ya again!

actually the audio revisions on Blade Runner date back to when the 2007 Blu-ray was released, and the revisions are only on the final cut, the other cuts have the original sound effects

No I’ve seen comments on bluray.com that apparently more revisions were made to the Final Cut mix for the UHD release.

Comparisons for Blade Runner.

US Theatrical/International Theatrical/Director’s Cut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaR5wVL9x2I

Final Cut (2007 mix)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-fu7jN2_2pE&t=205s

Final Cut (2017 mix)

https://youtu.be/P1jXmJmmj3o

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 (Edited)

Totally forgot about Blade Runner. When I first got the 4K UHD I didn’t really notice those opening sound effects being different, was just excited to hear the movie in Dolby Atmos. Than I read some reviews that mentioned remixed effects and yes, quite different. Good comparison you posted.

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crissrudd4554 said:

crissrudd4554 said:

SpacemanDoug said:

crissrudd4554 said:

Blu Ray 1977 said:

crissrudd4554 said:

I believe Fast Times at Ridgemont High had some changes as well. Some home video releases had different songs due to licensing but I think this was resolved by the time the film made it to DVD. The surround mix first introduced on the 2005 DVD had some minor effects changes I believe. That DVD as well as the BD does not have the mono. The original DVD and the High School Reunion DVD as far as I know has the correct original mono!

It’s me Pete 1972! You remember when we commented on the Jaws videos? Looks like another film is getting the audio revisionism treatment. According to Digital Bits and some fans, Batman 89’s Dolby Atmos mix has a lot of changes with the sound effects. Gun shots have been altered and the starting up of the Batmobile is changed too. Also Digital Bits said that the Dolby 5.1 on the 4K is a downmix and not the 5.1 that was on the previous Blu Ray.

Figures. (Rolls eyes) Apparently the 4K release of Blade Runner also has audio revisions though I’m not sure off hand what they are.

And yes I do remember you. Nice to see ya again!

actually the audio revisions on Blade Runner date back to when the 2007 Blu-ray was released, and the revisions are only on the final cut, the other cuts have the original sound effects

No I’ve seen comments on bluray.com that apparently more revisions were made to the Final Cut mix for the UHD release.

Comparisons for Blade Runner.

US Theatrical/International Theatrical/Director’s Cut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaR5wVL9x2I

Final Cut (2007 mix)

https://youtu.be/LwDdP88Dr54

Final Cut (2017 mix)

https://youtu.be/P1jXmJmmj3o

I had a feeling that something was up with Blade Runner’s audio. Nice to have confirmation from those clips.

I’ve come across some particularly heinous examples of audio alteration: apparently, in Japan, certain anime films have been “remastered” in stereo by having the original voice actors (or replacements if they’ve died since then) come in and re-record all of their dialogue, and annoying new sound effects are sprinkled on top. Films I know of that have had this treatment include The Wings of Honneamise (Gainax’s first theatrical release), some Gundam films, and the first two Patlabor films.

I should also mention the extensive post-production done to the Neon Genesis Evangelion franchise. For the series’ Platinum Edition release, the soundtrack was totally overhauled. They added in new background dialogue to provide important expository information that Hideaki Anno had always meant to put in before, but had no time due to the series’ demanding production schedule. Megumi Hayashibara was the only actress from the series to provide dialogue for this project. In addition, they also added in new, extremely unfitting sound effects.

Also, today I was watching an episode of Ultraman Taro on YouTube, via Tsuburaya Production’s official account. It seems that this series is another victim of 5.1 “remastering”. Go to 17:23 in the link below and you’ll see that they’ve added in some modern explosion and debris sounds.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CiXFRCnsDy0

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I can confirm that Gunbuster is another anime that has a modified 5.1 surround track.

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 (Edited)

tightrope 1984 , clint eastwood
on imdb its listed as dolby but it doesn’t say on the end credits or posters and VHS / LD releases are mono aside from dvd/blurays.

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Has anyone ever been able to locate the Mono Mix for Dirty Harry.

Not the mono retracked into stereo as on the laserdisc. But the actual authentic mix.

I’m also looking for the Mono Mix for Bullitt and American Graffiti.

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JadedSkywalker said:

Has anyone ever been able to locate the Mono Mix for Dirty Harry.

Not the mono retracked into stereo as on the laserdisc. But the actual authentic mix.

I’m also looking for the Mono Mix for Bullitt and American Graffiti.

Yes I have the mono mix for Dirty Harry, don’t know about Bullitt

The mono mix for American Graffiti isn’t available on home video

Raccoons

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Alexander Nevsky is an inversion with an awful original mono mix and a superior stereo remix exclusive to Laserdisc. In the stereo LD, the music is rerecorded by Yuri Temirkanov and sounds much more fluid than the mono.