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Post #1283826

Author
DominicCobb
Parent topic
The Marvel Cinematic Universe
Link to post in topic
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1283826/action/topic#1283826
Date created
3-Jun-2019, 1:39 AM

Omni said:

I’m sorry it’s taken so long for me to answer.

Skip ahead five years, and he’s moved on and has a new family. But the specter of that past failure is still haunting him. He still remembers that child he lost. What stops him from taking things too far this time, now that he not only has half the world to bring back but also a biological daughter to protect? This is something that has become his greatest flaw, and it should manifest most strongly in the character’s final chapter. Instead, that demon is dropped after that initial scene.

Yes, but that’s another bit of growth in Tony’s character. He realizes he isn’t always right - exactly because he failed. So the way I see it, his ultimate loss what overcomes the whole “suit of armor” aspect of his character, because it finishes the Age of Ultron arc for him where he made mistakes and started to have self doubts. But it’s only because he was still deeply affected by the battle and the weeks in space and in an incredibly fragile state emotionally that he brings it up in the Avengers HQ scene.

I mean, I wish I could agree. Infinity War sets up that the “suit of armor” aspect of his character is very much alive in his introductory scene with Pepper where they talk about the arc reactor-looking nano suit chest piece. Now, you can look at what happens in IW and rationalize it, saying “he’s got the best Iron Man suit ever, and it matters fuck all when it comes to facing Thanos,” and you can in your mind explain why Tony would realize that his obsessiveness was all for naught. The problem is, if we are to believe that was the conclusion Tony reached and that his character grew in this way, we needed to see it on screen someway, somehow (we can’t just be forced to assume it). Instead, the primary reaction we see from Tony in response to his IW failure is shifting the blame to Cap breaking up the team, and still believing that his goal to protect the earth was right. We jump ahead five years and he’s settled down and moved on, but within two scenes he’s already back to seeing if he can save the world. The film suggests that this demon that has haunted Tony has returned with that initial scene at Avengers HQ, but never really does anything specific to suggest that Tony has changed from then, so it’s sending mixed messages at best - why have such a memorable scene at the start of the film if it isn’t going to factor into the film’s characterization of Tony? The beginning of the film should be setting up the primary character conflicts/arcs that will take shape over the rest of runtime. Instead we jump ahead five years and potential growth for many of the characters are explained to have happened offscreen (e.g. Hulk) or, worse, you are simply forced to assume happened off screen (like Tony).

Granted two of the six avengers manage to get the happy ending they deserved and one gets to have a glorious moment out. But the other three and our purple friend are intentionally broken and rebuilt for the movie. But the fans still enjoyed the movie- suggesting “subverting expectations” can be done in a way that both surprises and pleases the fans. As I am sure many who enjoyed TLJ already knew.

I’ll save my problems with how the other three are handled for another day. I’ll just end with this: I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with fan service, and I think there’s certainly some entertainment value to be had from it, which is not nothing. My problem is only when the fan service gets in the way of the story; in Endgame, I’d say specifically where I take issue is the extended time travel shenanigans, which puts a few (not all) of the character arcs on the back burner for the purpose of a good time, and especially the final battle, which is basically pure spectacle that overshadows any potential for inner character conflict or deeper philosophical/thematic conflict and comes down to a very base level all of us vs. all of them, with the stakes being merely ‘win or lose.’

While I agree with you here, I think the way the Russos executed it was good enough to make me buy that all the inner and philosophical/thematic conflict had been resolved by then.

Personally, while on some level I enjoyed the sheer size of it all, ultimately I found the battle hard to engage with on an emotional level without any deeper stakes for the characters.

My favorite little moment is when Star-Lord finds Gamora. Or maybe when Cap yells to Spider-Man “Hey Queens!”

There’s a lot of fun little moments for sure, like I said I just can’t get behind the sequence ultimately because it lacks the necessary weight that it should have.