Valheru, you’ve missed my point entirely. I’m speaking about it from a meta perspective.
Star Wars being “meta” is another reason I don’t like the ST, so that’s not helping your argument. Star Wars is and has always been escapism for me so I don’t need nods and meta references breaking the 4th wall for me.
No. You misunderstand me. My analysis is from a meta perspective. I’m talking about all the movies, not just the ST.
Well then you’ve lost me. You keep shifting the goal posts of what I am supposed to get and when I respond to it you just say I’m not getting it, to the point I no longer even know what we’re talking about anymore. Below is our discussion so far, please let me know where I am going wrong:
The force has always represented meaning in the story and characters even if doesn’t always literally mean something on a literal plot level. So it’s not necessarily that the force is a sentient determiner who’s giving the saber to Rey, it’s more like Rey has the stronger force in the scene because the film is saying something about these two characters. Kylo sees the saber and claims it as his own. But ultimately the weapon and what it represents belongs to Rey.
DominicCobb said:
The force has always represented meaning in the story and characters even if doesn’t always literally mean something on a literal plot level.Could you please provide some examples from the OT so I might better understand your perspective. I don’t think I can recall any instances where the force itself has an impact on the characters or story, it’s alway how the characters themselves harness and use it. When you take away the human / sentient being using the force element, the dark side is not actually a literal half of the force that is evil nor is the light side “good”. It is simply “the force”, as Obi-wan explains it:
The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It’s an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.
It gives a Jedi his power, it doesn’t define or directly affect them. Flip that for a Sith - it gives them their power and has nothing to do with being evil in itself. The “Dark Side” is a concept created by force users to define and describe in a name, the seductive nature of power in itself and how it can corrupt yourself. This is what makes a Sith - a force user who has given into selfish desires to use the power for themselves instead of defence only and that of helpless innocents. They corrupt the use of the force but the actual force itself is still without moral definition or intent. To put it simply, it’s a tool and it’s how the user uses it that defines whether it’s use is for good or evil.
DominicCobb said:
So it’s not necessarily that the force is a sentient determiner who’s giving the saber to Rey, it’s more like Rey has the stronger force in the scene because the film is saying something about these two characters. Kylo sees the saber and claims it as his own. But ultimately the weapon and what it represents belongs to Rey.So what you’re saying, from my perspective, would be akin to saying that sunlight can determine between two people who the saber and what it represents belongs to. That part of the sunlight’s power is evil because some people harness it with magnifying glasses to kill ants and that the other “side” of this energy is good because other people use it to provide power and grow food for people to live on.
From just the movie perspective, what it is attributing to Rey should be shown through other means, not through some divine influence of events by the force which clouds and twists people’s understanding of it and it’s purpose in the Star Wars univers.
Valheru, you’ve missed my point entirely. I’m speaking about it from a meta perspective.
Also I don’t think anywhere in the films is it explicit that the force has a will of its own. Some characters might say it does, but that’s their opinion. The films purposely leave it open to interpretation, so if it bothers you it’s easy to imagine it isn’t the case (or perhaps if you want something to complain about, you can imagine it is).
Valheru, you’ve missed my point entirely. I’m speaking about it from a meta perspective.
Star Wars being “meta” is another reason I don’t like the ST, so that’s not helping your argument. Star Wars is and has always been escapism for me so I don’t need nods and meta references breaking the 4th wall for me.
Also I don’t think anywhere in the films is it explicit that the force has a will of its own. Some characters might say it does, but that’s their opinion. The films purposely leave it open to interpretation, so if it bothers you it’s easy to imagine it isn’t the case (or perhaps if you want something to complain about, you can imagine it is).
I’m not looking to complain about anything, I’m simply stating as to what I take issue with and the reasons why. I somewhat touch on above why I have an issue with the handling of the force in the ST. Basically the ST subscribes to a more defined line of reasoning as to how the force works in the Star Wars universe and this is at odds with my reasoning and it’s really as simple as that. To actually reference a ST quote in respect to this:
Valheru, you’ve missed my point entirely. I’m speaking about it from a meta perspective.
Star Wars being “meta” is another reason I don’t like the ST, so that’s not helping your argument. Star Wars is and has always been escapism for me so I don’t need nods and meta references breaking the 4th wall for me.
No. You misunderstand me. My analysis is from a meta perspective. I’m talking about all the movies, not just the ST.