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Post #1272488

Author
Valheru_84
Parent topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD *
Link to post in topic
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1272488/action/topic#1272488
Date created
5-Mar-2019, 11:47 PM
Last modified
5-Mar-2019, 11:53 PM
Edited by
Valheru_84
Reason for edit
None provided

DominicCobb said:
So Ben is the presumed heir and birthright of the Skywalker legacy and their immense force power but this fucks with his head and he messes up, meanwhile Rey is a nobody who no one expects anything of but who manages to achieve that which was expected of Ben simply because of his lineage… maybe this was on purpose.

Maybe it was, but from what has happened so far I don’t agree that Rey deserves to be the new bearer and heir to the Skywalker legacy and what you said doesn’t explain why she (as a nobody that has only spent maybe a few hours tops with Leia and the resistance command) gets to just inherit everything that is technically Ben’s. It also doesn’t make sense in that regard to why Rey and only Rey is sent to talk to / bring the now legendary Luke Skywalker back (Chewie does nothing except fly her there and smash down Luke’s door so Rey can barge in to lecture Luke, R2 just shows up to play the hologram video from ANH). Rey has only been in the picture where the OT characters are concerned for 0.11% of that time (0-34ABY) yet takes on board Luke & Han’s mantle, gets their iconic items and is fully trusted with potentially the entire future of the resistance that is resting all it’s hopes on finding Luke. The scenario is incredibly forced to say the least.

DominicCobb said:
Doubtful he helped him construct it as it wasn’t his first saber (silly Lucas). My point of comparison was a joke. It’s ridiculous to use the word stolen in either regard. But it is a term more accurate for Obi-wan, as the item was literally in Anakin’s possession as he took it. If you’re going to get nitpicky about something completely irrelevant like who the lightsaber actually belongs to, don’t forget Anakin never gave it away, so your point is on shaky ground.

You’re right regarding the saber (but I don’t understand your Lucas comment) since it was probably his first one that got destroyed in AOTC, though this doesn’t refute the other reasons as to why Obi-wan would take Anakin’s saber.

I’m not getting nit picky though, if you want to compare the two then these things need to be recognised so you can determine which elements in each case are apples and which are oranges and then see which of them line up. Also regardless of who currently possesses it, it will always be Anakin’s lightsaber as he made and used it in its initial life. When someone legitimately claims it as theirs down the track, yes you would call it their lightsaber (ie. “Luke’s lightsabre”) but when being respectful of it’s history you would still call it “Anakin Skywalker’s lightsaber” or some descriptor as to their relation to yourself like “my dad’s lightsaber”.

Just because Disney markets the toy and replica sabers as “Rey’s Lightsaber” doesn’t mean when actually describing its history that you wouldn’t say “It’s actually Anakin Skylwalker’s second/third lightsaber which was inherited and used by his son Luke Skywalker, found by Maz Canata who gave it to Rey to return to Luke but kept it for herself without consent when Luke declined to accept it from her.”

In my view, Rey never asked Luke if she could keep it and Luke never at any stage said she could actually take it and therefore my opinion of the matter is that she unwittingly stole it even though she probably wouldn’t see it that way and the movie doesn’t expect you to since you’re supposed to be rooting for Rey and not thinking to deeply. But those are the facts.

DominicCobb said:
“Something of huge sentimental value” - clearly not, at least in that moment, as he throws it away. You’re missing the vital semiotic meaning of the saber. It’s a whole lot more than just an object that someone does or does not have ownership over.

As explained to SilverWook above, you can’t simply dismiss any and all value due to a person’s immediate reaction and irrespective of the current circumstances and events leading up to that point. Him tossing it away doesn’t nullify any value he might or does still hold towards it. He could be supressing any number of feelings and memories about it at the time but later on as circumstances change, so could those feelings. Regardless of this, it’s still not Rey’s right to simply acquire his dad’s lightsaber under the assumption he simply doesn’t want it anymore. If she pretends to understand even half of the history around it, she would just leave it sitting near his shack where he will see it and leave.

DominicCobb said:
Man, I gotta circle back to this because your description of events is crazy. Let’s follow Rey’s path with the lightsaber, shall we? Maz gives it to her (who knows where she got it from), but she rejects it. Maz then gives it to Finn, who fumbles with it until he gets knocked out. Rey then grabs the saber in a pitched moment to face Kylo. From there, she searches for Luke and offers him back the saber. He takes it, but then throws it away,

Yep, all correct up till here.

DominicCobb said:
…not actually wanting it.

I don’t think this can be accurately ascertained from the information we have. Not actually wanting it in the moment? - sure. Happy to actually lose it again after it being missing for 31 years and for Rey to have it? - can’t be determined from what’s in the movie and he never gives her explicit verbal or indicative leave to take it.

DominicCobb said:
Naturally she picks it back up. But she doesn’t take it for herself, unlike Luke in ESB we never see the saber holstered on her belt. She puts the saber back in the bag where she had stored it en route to deliver to Luke. Later, while practicing with her staff, she thinks “fuck it” and takes the saber for a spin (though ends up semi-embarrassed with the results). After communing with Ben and entering the dark side hole, Luke tells her explicitly to “leave this island.” She believes Ben is her next best hope, but still once again offers Luke the saber. And, once again, Luke refuses.

Yep, all correct up till here though having only seen the movie once I had forgotten the second time she offers it to him, thanks for the reminder (I did a sanity check via a youtube clip as well 😉 ). It still doesn’t change the fact that she had no actual right to take it. Was she justified in taking it? That’s debatable and doesn’t change the fact even if justified for whatever reason that she’s still taken it without Luke’s actual approval.

DominicCobb said:
Naturally, she then takes the saber with her to the Supremacy.

Yep but the issue here is the word “naturally”.