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.: The X0 Project Discussion Thread :. (* unfinished project *) — Page 26

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Originally posted by: adlai
wait, so how is it that the results are so much more clear than the tr-47? is it just the LD player, or are you doing a cleanup like the guy from starwarslegacy.com?


Both, you can read all about it over at x0project.com.

http://www.kineticpast.com/starwars/thecheatlaserdisc.gif
Ooh, a laserdisc. The Cheat's playin' something on a laserdisc.
Everything is better on a laserdisc. Whatever happened to the laserdisc? Laserdisc!

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This thread hasn't had an update in a while, so I thought I'd ask what's new.

What progress have you made? Are you still doing tests or are you in the process of actually working on the films? What about this whole thing about you using a modified PAL player?

Curious George

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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So what are we looking at for a release date (vaugely) for at least Episode IV? This XO project has me so strung I can't sleep! Considering knocking over a Japanese pawn shop for a HLD-X0 myself! Mmmm, uber-accurate LD player.....




-"I eated the red berries"
sigs are for teh gheys
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This XO project has me so strung I can't sleep!


Maybe it's the weed not the X0, Bongloads?

Dr. M

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Originally posted by: Mavimao
This thread hasn't had an update in a while, so I thought I'd ask what's new.

What progress have you made? Are you still doing tests or are you in the process of actually working on the films? What about this whole thing about you using a modified PAL player?

Curious George

The modified PAL player is another project. I haven't heared anything about it except the plans to do it. But it's a project I'm looking forward too.

A new release of Star Wars is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.

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May have been answered already but is this going to be Dual Layer?

And are the "masters" being saved for an eventual higher definition possibility?
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It will be dual-layer. About the other thing, I don't know but guess not.

That's no moon. It's a LaserDisc.

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Things have been pretty slow-going the past few weeks. Things have come up on our end that had temporarily pushed the project off our priority list. The biggest setback for me was when my secondary HD crapped out and I lost all my X0 files. I had to send another HD to MeBe to get the files back, so I'll have them again soon.

In the mean time, we've been going frame by painstaking frame through the capture and documenting what needs to be done (help us out and contribute to the "fixes and glitches" thread if you've got any info to share). We've also been tinkering off and on with cleaning up the video and should have some sample stuff to show in the near future.

The "when will this be out" question gets asked a lot, so I think I'll throw up some sort of FAQ on the web site. The answer right now is we don't know. It will be ready when it's ready. But we're 4 guys with full-time jobs, so it's not like we have hours and hours to work on this thing every day.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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Not to mention the fact that I only recently got the ROTJ files. The logistics of working together while thousands of miles apart doesn't make it much easier.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Well, I'm just happy that there are actually people out there doing this work and insuring that these films will be preserved as best as possible (which is why I donated money!). The timeframe doesn't bother me, just as long as you get it right.

Work hard! And I'll be sure to post a few things in the feedbackthread.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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Again, may have been asked...ac3 or pcm soundtrack?
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And are the "masters" being saved for an eventual higher definition possibility?


That's a very good question, one that I was going to ask myself. Currently, even the best DVD's look extremely poor on HDTV's. DVD's will have to be replaced with HD discs. Are the original X0 captures going to be good enough for the inevitable HDTV output?
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This looks like an excellent project....and there are TSHIRTS! This will look good in 8th grade at Keith when I yell, "LONG LIVE THE OOT" with my X0 project shirt on. Actually, I just got a shirt with a faded Star Wars logo on it for school.
Rock. Nirvana. Awsomeness.

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1446/jackson3dg.jpg

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I'm not sure there are T-shirts just yet, so you might have to postpone plans to wander in to school on the Tuesday after Labo(u)r Day sportin' your fresh X0 Project gear.
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Originally posted by: ThatArtGuy
Currently, even the best DVD's look extremely poor on HDTV's.

Really? What's your signal path? 'Cause I figured DVD looked pretty hot on an HD projector. "Extremely poor" is pretty damning -- just why is it so horrific?

Are the original X0 captures going to be good enough for the inevitable HDTV output?


I can tell you right now that they aren't -- none of the current transfers will be -- for the simple reason that they're still only letterboxed NTSC from LD. That's a mere 270-ish lines of resolution. Even Moth3r's version started with maybe 300 lines (and features more dot crawl that the X0 Project will). I'm sure there's no nicer raw turd than the X0 Project raw files, and some serious turd polish such as you've never seen before will be employed, but if you're expecting better-than-DVD HD output, you are going to be quite disappointed.

I, on the other hand, won't be: I don't figure DVD is too bad upsampled to HD, and I will gladly accept some softness and video crappiness as long as I never have to watch the even more egregious video crappiness of seeing Greedo shoot at all and Jabba the Whupped turn up in ANH.

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I thought I would peek in for a second. I've been busy with major real life issues that have been very stressful. In my limited experience, I have found that some DVD's look pretty good in my eyes on HDTV's. However, it depends on two things. 1.) The DVD itself. 2.) The player. Don't expect the 1997 Bladerunner DVD to look great because it was one of the first DVD's to come out and looks like crap on a standard TV. If you have a good reference quality DVD (maybe something like Episode II (yuck) or a Superbit title and a high quality DVD Player (not some $30-$35 Wal-Mart special) with at least Progessive Scan, I think you would be surprised. The TV itself and cabling can also make a difference, but you have to have at least a decent player and a good DVD to begin with.

To tell you how strongly I feel about this, I will not be rebuying my whole DVD collection on Blu-Ray or HD-DVD (whichever wins). I will only replace something like LOTR or maybe a DVD I have that breaks or something if I really love the movie. Sure there is going to be an increase in quality and it is a little noticeable, but IMHO it is not worth all of the extra money. For me, it just gets to a point where I say that it looks good enough. Also, we don't even know which HD format is going to come out on top. Odds are in Blu-Ray's favor, but they may have some major unseen issue that comes up. I also don't believe either format is going to be a big success rifght off the bat. PS3's will be Blu-Ray Players, but the X-Box 360 won't be either format (stupid on Microsoft's part IMHO).

I also don't know if the X0 transfer can be made HD quality ready because I don't know if HD capture cards really exist yet and how good they are if they do.

I'm sorry if this seems like a rant. I just think a high quality DVD release will be better than what we've had up to this point. I say worry about HD when the time comes. Due to the confusion of many consumers trying to pick between two different formats and the cost associated with each, I think the time when it will be commonplace will be later than sooner.

Patrick
"When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco from The Good, The Bad And The Ugly
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"Don't expect the 1997 Bladerunner DVD to look great"

*cough*Highlander*cough*

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: Karyudo
Originally posted by: ThatArtGuy
Currently, even the best DVD's look extremely poor on HDTV's.

Really? What's your signal path? 'Cause I figured DVD looked pretty hot on an HD projector. "Extremely poor" is pretty damning -- just why is it so horrific?

When I go close to my TV when playing a DVD I can see the compression inherent to the DVD mpeg format (i.e. individual pixels, colors grouped together, etc.) This is on a regular 640x480 screen that "melds the picture together." When I go to a Sony Store and look at DVD's being played on their HDTVs, you can clearly see every compression artifact. This effect is compounded by the HDTV's extreme definition at a much higher resolution. Comparing the two is like night and day. DVD is fine for a regular TV, but looks "extremely poor" when I see it on a HDTV. When the new format is available, the difference will be astounding. I'd say the difference in quality will be more than the difference between VHS was to DVD.

Are the original X0 captures going to be good enough for the inevitable HDTV output?


I can tell you right now that they aren't -- none of the current transfers will be -- for the simple reason that they're still only letterboxed NTSC from LD. That's a mere 270-ish lines of resolution. Even Moth3r's version started with maybe 300 lines (and features more dot crawl that the X0 Project will). I'm sure there's no nicer raw turd than the X0 Project raw files, and some serious turd polish such as you've never seen before will be employed, but if you're expecting better-than-DVD HD output, you are going to be quite disappointed.

I, on the other hand, won't be: I don't figure DVD is too bad upsampled to HD, and I will gladly accept some softness and video crappiness as long as I never have to watch the even more egregious video crappiness of seeing Greedo shoot at all and Jabba the Whupped turn up in ANH.


I agree on the last paragraph. However, wouldn't it be possible to capture the analog signal at a resolution that is equal to HDTV specifications? It is after all, an analog signal, just up the resolution capture.

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I also don't know if the X0 transfer can be made HD quality ready because I don't know if HD capture cards really exist yet and how good they are if they do.

There are HD quality cards that are now available. Like you, I'm not sure of the quality.


I'm sorry if this seems like a rant. I just think a high quality DVD release will be better than what we've had up to this point. I say worry about HD when the time comes. Due to the confusion of many consumers trying to pick between two different formats and the cost associated with each, I think the time when it will be commonplace will be later than sooner.


I agree. I care a lot about this project and I'm just thinking about the future. It would be nice to have everything done now so the project won't have to start from scratch again. Who knows, Lucas might actually suprise the heck out of us and release the original OT on the next lossless medium.
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Capturing with an HD card won't make it look any better. There are still only 277 (usable) lines of resolution from the LD, no matter what resolution you choose to capture at.

Upscaling would be a possibility, but it's unlikely that it will look any better on an HD screen. We'll see though. I managed to upscale and make that turd of a ROTS xvid look decent, maybe we can do the same thing with the X0.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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Originally posted by: zion
Originally posted by: digitalfreaknyc
Again, may have been asked...ac3 or pcm soundtrack?

When we know stuff like this, we'll post it. But right now our main concern is producing the best LD transfered video you've ever seen.


I'm confused. Why wouldn't the soundtrack have anything to do with producing the best final product? aren't you doing both at the same time or are you JUST working with video?
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Originally posted by: zion
Capturing with an HD card won't make it look any better. There are still only 277 (usable) lines of resolution from the LD, no matter what resolution you choose to capture at.

Upscaling would be a possibility, but it's unlikely that it will look any better on an HD screen. We'll see though. I managed to upscale and make that turd of a ROTS xvid look decent, maybe we can do the same thing with the X0.


Well, I guess what it all comes down to is that the team keeps the raw footage after it's all edited, etc. Then for the HD release, there wouldn't be any worry about the mpeg encoding loss. That's a huge quality loss right there.
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Yes it is, and of course we're going to hang on to the original capture files after we're done.

Originally posted by: digitalfreaknyc
I'm confused. Why wouldn't the soundtrack have anything to do with producing the best final product? aren't you doing both at the same time or are you JUST working with video?

Sorry for the confusion. What I mean is that we're not concentrating on the audio, or the menus or the special features or the subtitles right now. We're concentrating on cleaning up the video first and foremost. Everything else will come later.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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"I managed to upscale and make that turd of a ROTS xvid look decent, maybe we can do the same thing with the X0."

Yes, you did. It looks FANTASTIC!

"I'm confused. Why wouldn't the soundtrack have anything to do with producing the best final product? aren't you doing both at the same time or are you JUST working with video?"

The audio is the easy part. The video is taking up all the effort right now. Chances are there will likely be a version with PCM, but it remains to be seen if creating a 2.0 (or 5.1) soundtrack for a higher video bitrate is worth the effort or not.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>