logo Sign In

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released) — Page 13

Author
Time
Post link
Trooperman: Seeing this edit come along the way it has is great, especially now that things are getting more and more concrete.

Of course I have some feedback:

Breaking up Anakin's nightmare adds a much greater importance to them, and the placing after his conversation w/Palpatine is excellent. I'm not so sure about the fade to black, however. ANH is the only film to use these, and I think a wipe similar to what was done w/the nightmares in RotS would make for more continuity. And have you found a way to replicate the dream effects used in Episode 3?

The plan for the duel looks good, but I have to plead with you not to use that HORRIBLE shot of CGI Anakin leaping across the room.

Interesting you mention lightsaber sound effects, as I believe Magnolia Fan did something similar in BotF. Personally I think it is unecessary as I enjoy the variety of sound effects. Btw, has anyone noticed they changed several of the sounds effetcs in the ANH duel for the DVD? Originally they sounded quite a bit different than the other duels. While I appreciate them FINALLY fixing the visuals, I wish they would have left the audio alone. Again, variety is a good thing in some areas.

As for Anakin's possible soliloquy, I say try it and if it doesn't work, just cut it.

Two thoughts of my own:

Have you considered expanding Qui-Gon's role at all, or at least found a suitable replacement for "NOOOOO!"?

And I don't know if you've seen ADM's edits, but one of the things he did was remove all references to Padme as a "Senator," and her being an elected Queen. She is thus a Queen thoughout the PT just as Leia is a Princess thoughout the OT. Of course this would take some substantial editing, most notably the removal of Padme and Anakin's conversation as they arrive on Naboo. What ADM didn't do that I thought would help the idea along was whenever possible insert someone saying "Queen" where "Senator" used to be. I've thought a lot of this though, so if you're interested in this possibility let me know and I can more thouroughly lay-out my ideas.
Author
Time
Post link
Sorry for the delay:

Anakin’s soliloquy- try it and if it doesn’t work, then cut it. Sounds good to me- I was actually considering a voice-over from Anakin (lips aren’t moving, but you hear what he’s thinking) but I think that’s a very contemporary technique and not in the ‘30’s style (even though they did use it in RotS

MTHaslett- I see what you’re saying about, “I’m not afraid to die.” (but I am afraid to lose you). I’ll do it that way, then.

As for the Han/Leia theme- I love that theme- that might be my favorite theme from the whole saga. However, I want to keep it in the OT because it doesn’t really have relevance in this romance. It was a different relationship of two people who were free to do whatever they wanted, but were a little reluctant (love/hate type of thing). Anakin/Padme is two people that like each other very much, but are not allowed to fall in love. Anyway, I just feel that the Han/Leia theme doesn’t really fit in this romance.

So how I was planning to score the balcony/fireside scene- remember that Padme hair-combing scene in ROTS? I didn’t like the scene but I loved the music (another variation on the love theme, but with the violin on a countermelody). What do you think of that?

DarthAstuart- nice to hear from you! And I don’t blame you for not wanting to hunt through 300 posts to try and find all of my changes. Yes- no matter how I do the garage scene, the primary concern was to edit it so that Padme has no knowledge that Anakin killed all the sandpeople, because it is indeed very unrealistic for Padme to accept this revelation with, “To be angry is to be human.” As opposed to, “You psycho!” What I was trying to figure out was whether I want the audience to know this.

Commander Courage- nice to hear from you again as well! I have watched part of “Vergence in the Force” by ADigitalMan, and I actually liked this idea very much. My original idea on it (which I haven’t implemented yet) was not to prevent Padme from being a senator in II and III, but to make it so that she was born a queen and that she decided to resign or quit for one reason or another, leaving one of her relatives as the queen. The reason she was no longer queen would be revealed through Nute Gunray during the conference with Dooku in the middle of the film. I need to work on that. Either way, I want to get rid of the “elected queen at 14” business, because as ADM said, queens are born, not elected. That’s why she was so young at the time.

I would, however, love to hear any suggestions you have regarding this idea, because it’s a good one.

Qui-Gon’s role- I loved Qui-Gon. He’s probably my favorite character in the PT. The “No….” that you hear in the original cut will DEFINITELY be removed from my cut. Three things could happen with this:

1. I could look through TPM and even other films starring Neeson for a good recording of “Noo…”
2. I could do a reasonably good imitation myself (better than the one in the film, anyway)
3. I could just leave it out

But beyond that, I don’t know how to expand Qui-Gon’s role in Ep. II. I could have him chime in during Anakin’s dream, but three people talking at once could get messy- I’d have to play with it. Looking towards the future, if the Ep. III DVD contains the deleted scene with Yoda and Qui-Gon, it definitely goes in my cut.

Lightsaber sound effects- I like the original ones, but keep in mind that this is all aesthetic stuff and I won’t necessarily get to (until the end, if there’s time)


The plan for the duel looks good, but I have to plead with you not to use that HORRIBLE shot of CGI Anakin leaping across the room.

Ah…I’m sorry. I had previously cut it from the film, but then discovered that I needed it to make the re-edited final duel work properly. I couldn’t find another shot that did the job. If you have any suggestions, please let me know (because I agree that the shot looks rather phony).

Anakin’s nightmare- my reasoning with the fade-to-black was actually for the same reason that you’d like me to change it!-the fact that that transition had never been used before make it significant, lets you know that what you’re about to see is important. Also, fade-to-black was used once in Ep. III (before the start of the 2nd dream), so it wouldn’t be altogether out of place.

The other reason I had a fade-to-black was because of the nature of the dream- it starts out with voices (over black screen). Shimi: Don’t look back. Tusken grunts. Anakin: Mother? Slowly fade in to image of Shmi, bloody and beaten up. Anakin: No… no, please…Then crossfade with Tuskens slamming their sticks in camera direction…

That type of thing. Hard to explain, but you would understand after seeing it.

And have you found a way to replicate the dream effects used in Episode 3?


I believe so. I don’t know that I want to use it for the whole thing, though- I think it would be effective if everything BUT Shmi was blurred in that dream, again to add significance and urgency to it. I don’t know- the dream is a fun project and I’m pretty much going to go by instinct when editing and try different sequences to see which is most effective (with music).

Breaking up Anakin's nightmare adds a much greater importance to them


Do you mean the fact that it’s earlier in the film makes it more important? I agree completely! BTW, CC, what happened to your old signature?
------------------------------------------------------
I’ve been having computer/video problems recently that have prevented me from working on the final cut, but now it appears that I’ve fixed most of the problems. As of today, I am working on the final cut of “Shroud of the Dark Side”. Don’t get too excited- this is a very very very very long process- but it has begun.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
Trooperman--

Final cut? Great Googly Moogly!

Great points about the Han/Leia theme. I like the idea of taking the Ep III balcony music. My biggest fear around this point is that the work you do to fix the romance might get undermined by the score they chose for this. As long as you have options, I'm encouraged. I would argue that Han/Leia and Anakin/Padme are not that unalike. Han is a marked man and Leia is a Rebel leader-- their love is not forbidden, but just as doomed in ESB as these two are in SOTD. If there were only some alternate take, some variation on the theme that was vaguely recognizable instead of solidly linked to any major ESB events.

I can't help remembering what a lift it was in MagFan's "BOTF" to hear those ANH cues in the pod-race. Just a single quote of the Han/Leia theme placed carefully and discreetly could change the flavor of this whole movie-- making it more OT. But this is the last I'll speak of it because I can tell by your comments and ideas that you understand music better than I do.

Two last points to emphasize since the last cuts are being made: I love your outline but two points are unclear.

1. You say Anakin and Padme "disobey" Mace Windu when they run off to save Obi-Wan. If you cut Mace's direct order to stay on Tatooine, that gives them a loophole to sneak through so they (particularly Anakin) don't seem so immature.

2. In this cut, Anakin more or less blames Obi Wan for his mother's death. It isn't outright blame and there isn't solid logic behind this emotion -- but it is there and has to be processed.

As it stands, Anakin kills the sandpeople, yells about Obi Wan in the garage, buries his mom, then runs off to save Obi Wan.

When he finally gets face to face with Obi Wan, they pick up the "hilarious" banter they had at the beginning of the movie without a hint of residue from the death of Shmi. Obi Wan even seems to understand Padme better than Anakin when he notes that she "seems to be on top of things."

This stuff all seems incongruent. Where are Anakin's mixed emotions? They finally surface when Padme falls out of the gunship during the clone-war battle, but their banter during the "execution" really interrupts this thread.

Can you give Anakin a less jovial attitude to Obi Wan in the arena? Cut a couple of his lines? Christiansen's glares at McGregor seem to fit Anakin's mixed emotions better than his dialogue. Let his glares cover a couple of these "jokey" beats so that we remember Anakin's got a bone to pick with his master. Cut Obi-Wan's line about Padme and let it be part of Anakin and Padme's off-screen plans. After they kissed, we can presume they talked briefly about how they plan to escape.

On the Anakin lines you keep, the line readings you provide can contain more hints of something dark toward Obi Wan-- the reading of "We're here to rescue you, Master" can be almost threatening. That'll play off funnier when Obi Wan looks at his chains and says "Well you're doing a great job!"

The point of this is to let Obi Wan's talk with Anakin in the gun ship be a major story beat, when he asks "What would SHE do?" That's where Obi Wan and Anakin re-establish their friendship.

That's where Anakin finally is able to get his emotions into some kind of order. He knows Obi Wan never meant to let Shmi die, he just had his sights set on making Anakin a Jedi. At this moment, Anakin makes a Jedi-like decision to leave Padme and continue the mission. That's the key moment in this story-- the story of Anakin resenting his "Jedi" restrictions--breaking the rules--throwing aside his teachings--then finally picking up the mantle again. That backbone will turn this movie from mush into a story.

Then, if Anakin's "rushing into battle" against Dukoo can come off as smart rather than suicidally stupid, I think the Anakin story in Ep II will finally be complete.

If, on the other hand, you don't address his mixed emotions to Obi Wan when they first see each other again in the Arena, the entire throughline of Anakin's story will lose focus and limp to the finish line as it does in the AOTC cut.

The choice is yours, Jedi. Do or do not. There is no try.

Author
Time
Post link
Trooperman: As of today, I am working on the final cut of “Shroud of the Dark Side”. Don’t get too excited- this is a very very very very long process- but it has begun.

MTHaslett:

Final cut? Great Googly Moogly!

Two last points to emphasize since the last cuts are being made...


Ack! The last cuts aren’t being made! (The first final cuts are beginning). I have to completely start over when doing the final cut- I can’t use anything from the rough cut besides the sound mix. I haven’t even finished recording all my dialogue yet. Just don’t want anyone to think I’m farther along than I am and then become disappointed when I take longer than expected, that’s all. But it is true that in a little while, I'll be very reluctant to change my plans for the film. But after I complete the film, there's so much to do! Writing the subtitles and synchronizing them with the film, doing the audio commentary, crediting everyone I need to, getting an opening crawl, etc. I really, really don't want to disappoint anyone who expects it sooner than it will come out. I'm a busy guy but I'm trying very hard to dedicate myself to this as much as possible to get it done as soon as possible. Many times, the work happens at night, and that's what coffee is for (just kidding)

If there were only some alternate take, some variation on the theme that was vaguely recognizable instead of solidly linked to any major ESB events.

You probably weren't thinking this, but that actually could be arranged (pun unintended).

But yes, I might be able to write a variation (or a hybrid of the 2 themes) and slip it in the film somewhere.

Anakin's character- extremely good points about how Anakin should be angry at Obi-Wan after Shmi's death. And I can certainly incorporate hostility into Anakin’s dialogue to Obi-Wan after that point- I think that would be a major improvement. And no hilarious banter- Anakin is not happy with Obi-Wan. I can't believe that GL had this beautiful story arc with the Obi-Wan/Anakin confrontation and then killed it with the joking around in the previous scenes. I guess the answer to that is that the confrontation aboard the ship was filmed late in post-production, as an afterthought- it wasn't in the original script. Also, in the original version, Anakin was not directly saying that Obi-Wan held him back and that's why his mother's dead. I was thinking of putting in an additional (or alternate) Anakin line in the confrontation.

Anakin: I'm not going to sit here and lose her the way I lost my mother.

Thoughts?

The scene on Tatooine, however- I had originally cut it this way:

Mace: Protect the Senator at all costs. That is your first priority.

Padme argues with Anakin.

Anakin: He's like my father! But you heard Master Windu- he gave me strict orders to stay here.

Padme: Well, I want to help Obi-Wan. (Pause)

Anakin: We will. (Padme looks at him, surprised, and he smiles).

It won't be the first time we've gone against orders. OR I've had my fill of this planet


Part of the reason I did this was to eliminate the sickeningly PC scenario when Padme says: "You'll just have to come along" and she flies the ship away while Anakin grins foolishly and is bossed around. This is not Darth Vader material here. But perhaps you have a better suggestion for this scene.

About Anakin's "suicidally stupid" charge at Dooku- ha ha! Like I said, I was going to cut that entirely but decided to keep it (because of Obi-Wan's line at the beginning of III). As it stands, Obi-Wan doesn't tell him to move in slowly from the left- Anakin kind of runs at him quickly after entering the room. Does this seem like enough?

That backbone will turn this movie from mush into a story.

I agree. And I'm so happy that you have contributed so much with advice about Anakin's character. It's the type of non-technical big picture character motivation stuff that I'm not as good at recognizing. That's why I'm convinced that with so many minds working together on this, the final result will be an edit unlike any other.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
Ah-- I get it -- the first of the final cuts. It is a hell of a thing you're doing and since you have a real life outside this project, I can only imagine how tough it must be to get this thing done. I must say, however, I think the entire Star Wars community will be blown away by this cut when it's done. I know a lot of haters who will be hard pressed to argue that this new version doesn't rescue this movie in a big way.

I'm glad to hear you still have to go through the edits one more time because I have a few more changes to suggest. Think this over:

As you'll see, I've thought a lot more about the end of this story. I now believe the final pieces of the Anakin story have to begin when he gets the message that Obi Wan needs to be rescued.

Following on the tails of the funeral scene-- Anakin's emotions about his mother need to be honored. It's the fact that Lucas drops all this material like a hot potato that completely unhinges the emotional story for the rest of this movie.

Our job (YOUR job) is to reconnect this wire.

Let's review: Anakin feels held back by the Jedi and Obi Wan in particular because he knows his mom needs him, but they won't let him go. He finally says "fuck it" and goes-- discovering he was right (GODDAMMIT!). Shmi dies and he has no one to blame... except Obi Wan. But right when his anger begins to surge -- the message comes: OBI WAN'S IN TROUBLE. What does our young Jedi Apprentice do?

Great question and a great opportunity for drama. Let's take it from there.

In broad strokes, I propose that Anakin goes to aid Obi Wan NOT because it's the right thing to do-- but (since he's mad about his mom) because he gets pushed into it. At first, Anakin is ambivalent enough to follow orders and let the other Jedi handle the rescue (which, we learn, would have worked out fine). He doesn't feel compelled to save Obi Wan until Padme decides it's her job. To avoid seeming "sickeningly PC" ;-)-- this has to be character driven. That means every cut that leads up to this decision has to support a clear point: that Anakin isn't sure what he wants to do, but Padme is.

Then, once he takes on Padme's challenge, he's there for the job and handles himself as best he can, but doesn't come around to be Obi Wan's friend again until their shouting match about saving Padme. Until the moment he agrees with Obi Wan, he's really only there for Padme and hasn't regained any respect for Obi Wan.

It's after he hears Obi Wan's compliments and Obi Wan's logic about what Padme would want that Anakin becomes, once again, a Jedi Apprentice.

How do I suggest telling this story? Well, I'm obviously revisiting stuff you've already done and I'm asking you to consider changing it. I believe there's only one way to address Anakin's feelings toward Obi Wan as the story requires and that's to show Anakin's mixed emotions when he first sees Obi Wan in danger on Geonosis.

We begin at the end of the funeral. Anakin speaks over Shmi's grave and R2 rolls up.

C3P0: "It seems he's carrying a message from..."
CUT TO: CU on Anakin staring down at his mother's grave, not interested in the droids.
C3P0: "...Obi Wan Kenobi. Master Anni..."
CUT TO: the droids as they finish their lines (skip the master of Anakin and Padme facing the droids).
C3P0: "...Does that name mean anything to you?"

Wipe to a master shot of the INT. SPACESHIP where Padme and Anni receive the message-- but only give us about two seconds of this shot for one word of dialogue:
OBI WAN: (on tape) "Anakin..."
CUT TO: CU of unhappy Anakin as the message continues to play. Then...
CUT TO: Master shot again until Padme turns... (cutting on motion)
CUT TO: CU of Anakin as Obi Wan instructs them to relay the message... (cutting on motion)
CUT TO: CU of Padme as she turns to the button. CU on button, etc.

That bit of doctoring keeps us keyed on how Anakin is processing this coincidence. He's mad at Obi Wan, but hearing from him now makes his emotions conflicted and burning. He's playing along as long as he's not forced to do anything yet...

The message from Obi Wan continues, intercut with Coruscant until Obi Wan's attacked:

EDIT: In showing this attack, reverse the close-ups of Padme and Anni. Start on Anni's reaction. He's surprised, but not moved... Cut to Padme, turning to Anni to see his reaction-- she's surprised by his reaction as well as by the message itself.

The message ends and Mace addresses Anakin:

Mace: "Your most important thing is [cut] to protect the Senator at all costs."
(losing the line "stay where you are.")

Anni's reaction is dour and unhappy. He's full of mixed emotion, but looks resigned to following orders. Truly, he's relieved to not be sent to save his master about whom he has mixed emotions for the moment. But...

Padme explains-- it's less than a parsec away. Are you really going to let your friend die?
CUT the line "He's like a father to me." Just have Anakin walk away from her plea. He replies "They gave me strict orders." He ain't budging-- he will follow orders, because he doesn't want to face the real issue: his anger at Obi Wan.

Padme ain't listening: "They ordered you to protect me, and I'm going, so you have to come." She stubbornly starts up the ship... Anakin watches... he does not stop her, but NEITHER does he smile (the sequence works as is up until you have to CUT the smile). He's in love and in awe of Padme. He won't stop her since her actions are noble. He's a sucker for noble actions-- even if he's not exactly in love with Obi Wan at the moment.

As a side note, I think this darker version of the scene makes the 3P0 lines at the end about "never having done space travel" more appropriate, so I hope you keep them.

NEXT STEP:

As Anakin and Padme fly into the plumes above Geonosis and we're watching the ship from the outside, we can have Anakin say some lines. These should introduce the subtext that's missing from these scenes which is "I'm doing this for you, Padme. Obi Wan is currently on my shit list."

I suggest a line like this:
EXT. FLYING SPACE SHIP OVER GEONOSIS
Anakin: (V.O.) "We have no idea where he is. If I'm to protect you, we need a plan."
INT. FLYING SPACESHIP
Padme: "See those columns of steam straight ahead?-- they're exhaust vents of some type."
Anakin: "That'll do."

That makes this little interaction a lot more interesting. Maybe you can come up with even better lines-- ones more loaded with "anti-kenobi" venom-- without being over the top.

They land. Padme instructs Anakin to follow her lead. "Don't worry," he says, "I've given up trying to argue with you." Now the resignation relates to something-- he's going to help her do something he wouldn't do without her encouragement. Your reading of the line should emphasize THIS point rather than the current reading which is sort of "tired old married couple" banter.

Then the great changes you've got take over-- the factory [OMIT the reference of "Obi Wan's going to kill me" when his light saber's destroyed], the kiss, the CUT TO int. Arena where we see the columns and Obi Wan tied up.

Here's a big moment: Obi Wan and Anakin see each other for the first time. Obi Wan's surprised-- Anakin DOES NOT SMILE at him. He glares. Obi Wan rolls eyes.

The couple are chained up and Obi Wan says "I wondered if you got my message." Anakin replies as scripted-- but the line reading is sinister and flat. "We got it. Then we came to save you, dick-head." "Good job" cracks Obi Wan. Do NOT show the embarrassed Anakin reaction shot.

The animals come out. CUT Anakin's "I got a bad feeling about this" line-- CUT the "what about Padme" lines. Anakin and Padme have a plan. They spring into action and Obi Wan is the one playing "catch up"-- not Anakin.

Relocate the center of anxiety in this scene to Obi Wan by using the following ideas:

Recut the action of the beasts so that Anakin's beast ATTACKS FIRST.
Then Padme's.
Then Obi Wan's. Obi Wan is left tied up the longest, the last to be attacked and the last to escape.

As the beast stabs at Obi Wan, pump up the anxiety with bigger BOOM Sound FX as the beast misses and crushes the ground.

Keep the tension building on OBI WAN and PADME as their struggles play out. Keep the Anakin "training the beast" beat for last. In other words, let the beats of Obi Wan and Padme play out AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE before Anakin gets anywhere with his attempt to train his beast. BUT...

Once things are terrible and Anakin approaches his beast with his hand outstretched-- play the FORCE MUSIC CUE. The force has a strong effect on the weak minded. Let's hear it -- and now we know Anakin's plan.

Then, in much more rapid cuts than the present edit, Anakin rescues Padme and Obi Wan. Let Anakin's success unravel their mess more quickly and directly.

Up in the stands, Nute Gunray complains. Dukoo reassures him and finally:

THE DROIDS roll out... MUSIC CUE: when these droids come we need much scarier music. This should sound like the end of the frickin' world!

It's all over...

Until...

Mace shows up and the next battle begins. etc.

(As a side note in this battle: PLEASE cut the beat where Padme and Anakin jump onto the chariot and run around. Natalie Portman looks so silly holding that gun. These beats advance the story not one bit and their "banter" about "aggressive negotiations" is terrible. Please omit this entire bit. It bothers me as much as the C3P0 stuff. Losing it will speed up and intensify this battle. Please.)

The last great Anakin beats come as he and Padme ride with Obi Wan on the gun boat. Anakin naturally takes charge: Shoot at the fuel, he says. Good idea, compliments Obi Wan. That's a nice change-- maybe Obi Wan's not so bad...

Then Padme drops out and Anni goes nuts. Obi Wan gets in his face and challenges Anakin to now or never act like a Jedi! Anakin accepts the challenge and lets Padme go. Maybe a special music cue is called for here, I don't know. But this is the key moment at the climax of this character story.

I hope these ideas are clear. Thanks, Trooperman. I love working on this.

As for the "suicidally stupid" attack on Dukoo-- I think the important thing to cover is that it at least seems like a good idea. If Obi Wan says "Don't rush him" and Anakin rushes him-- it's like comedy. So the quick fix is to not have Obi Wan say "Don't rush him." If it could be worked into an even better beat, say, Anakin shows some patience, then Dukoo baits him and Anakin finally sees a chance and attacks what he thinks is a weakness-- well that would be awesome. If it can look like Anakin's doing something great and decisive only to be stopped dead, shocking him and the audience as well-- that's the best possible version of that beat.






Author
Time
Post link
Wow-so much to comment on, and I'll try to get to it in the days ahead.

Just one rather minor comment, however- "Obi Wan's going to kill me" has been left in, but the line has been changed to "Obi-Wan'll burn me alive."

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
You mean "burn me alive" as in "cut off my legs and set me on fire?"

I have to admit, that's better.

I wanted the original line cut because it puts a hole right in the middle of the thread I'm trying to reconstruct. If he's not that into Obi Wan, he sure could give a crap what Obi Wan thinks about his light saber being cut in half. When Lucas put that line in, he changed the tone of the entire sequence. Leave it in, and Anakin's pretty much accepting his role as Obi Wan's apprentice. Take it out, and the jury's still out, he's still mad and we still have a story.

I'm afraid I don't personally think the change you suggest overcomes this problem.

I sure appreciate you taking the time to hear all my ideas.

BTW-- the idea of a new Han/Leia alternate theme made my heart leap. Hurray!

Keep up the good work.

Author
Time
Post link
Yes, I felt it was about time to change my signatue. But when my Batman phase runs out, maybe the genius of Al Gore will return.

Back to busiess, as it were, MTHaslett once again has excellent input. I'm in agreement on pretty much everything, except for the replacement of Across the Stars with the Han & Leia theme. AtS is an excellent piece and fits the romance appropriately. Han & Leia's theme belongs in the OT...with Han & Leia. But other than that, listen to him TM!

"Obi-Wan's going to burn me alive." *cringe* I think it would best to leave only Anakin's sigh of frustration in reaction to his broken lightsaber. No in-joke one-liners please.

Qui-Gon: I've been thinking of ways to expand his role in the saga, as he is also my favorite charcter in the prequels (Liam Neeson is also my favorite actor). A good source would be the Episode 1 tone poems (I've mentioned these before in one of Obi-wanton's threads). I don't know if you're familiar with them, but Qui-Gon's goes as such:

It will be a hard life.
One without reward. One without remorse. One with regret.
A path will be placed before you. The choice is yours alone.
It will be a hard life, but you will find out who you are.

I have several idea on how to utilize this. One being during Qui-Gon's funeral parts of this could echo in Anakin's head. However, based on how you are handling his dreams, they would be an ideal place in insert the voice of Qui-Gon. Perhaps in the first dream quote "It will be a hard life," and in the second, include the complete first and second lines. Then in RotS, during the ruminations sequence, the third line. along with some spliced dialogue, "[You are] [the Chosen one]." I'm getting a bit ahead of myself here, but you get the idea.

As far as the overall music goes, I'm really excited to see how your alterations it into the film, as music (especially in Star Wars) can make a HUGE difference. Though I like the choice of "Uranus" as Dooku's theme, don't you think it's a bit bombastic, and is bound to get repetitive after awhile. Although you might have all this worked out already and rearranged it. Either way I think this merits more discussion.

You mentioned rotoscoping lightsaber before; I would love to get a screenshot of your attempts. I'm going to soon have After Effects, and the first thing I'm going to play around with is rotoscoping. Mace should have a blue blade, definitely. Now I've always thought Dooku should have a purple blade for quite a few reasons:
-Variety. Jedi: Blue and Green, Sith: Red and Purple.
-Symbolism. Dooku is a mix between Jedi (blue) and Sith (red), which of course makes (purple).
-Royalty. As Sam Jackson often reiterates, purple is the color of royalty. Dooku is a Count after all, so there's a connection there as well.
I know it would be a pain to rotoscope, but if I ever figure out what I'm doing, I'll do it myself anyway. The ONLY disadvantage would be in RotS when Anakin takes Dooku's saber; as it stands now he holds in his hands the balance of good and evil. I'd really hate to loose that, but if we're reinventing the charcter of Dooku the lightsaber is a good place to start.

I believe we've discussed before the subject of Dooku being or not being a Sith, and you sided with the official scenario. There are various advantages and intriguing story points to both, but especially with Dooku no longer using Force lightning, it would be all the easier to make him a rouge agent of the Force. This ties into my editing wish that Grevious=Maul, but that is for a later discussion.

I don't have time to expand on the logistic of Queen Padme Amildala, but I will I get the chance.

What I've been keeping in mind, and I hope we all will, is that Episode 2 in whatever form it mayt be needs to be able to fit into Episode 3. We all have our ideas on what to do with that film as well, so before setting into stone anything in this one, we should consider how that will impact any alterations we'd want to make to the next one. The goal is to not only make everything more like the OT, but to enhance the prequels into a tighter trilogy and story of its own (which will help along the former objective as well).
Author
Time
Post link
Well, since I'm still awake...

Two things:

First, I want to clarify my ideas about the Han/Leia theme. I don't mean to say the Han/Leia theme should replace Across the stars-- I actually like this AOTC theme (although it's mis-timed) in the Geonosis kiss scene. It's just the fireplace-scene, where the main theme isn't even being used, that I have a problem. The echo of a Han/Leia theme there (a variation- a hint of the theme-- not the theme itself) would lift this troubled romance from it's current D.O.A. level to something inspired and harkening to the OT. I don't want to over-use it -- just get a whiff of it. Clue the viewer into the clear parallel. This Vader romance foreshadows the Han Solo romance in the "later" film -- why not tap into a little of that musical power? Just a little.

Second, I appreciate the idea you have, TM, of adding a new line to the Obi-Wan/Anakin shouting match that says "I won't lose her like I lost my mother!" I feel that this line has potential, but it also might sound forced. Like the soliloguy, I say try it and keep it if it works. My gut tells me it's probably too much. He might as well say "You kept me from saving my mom-- you won't stop me from saving my lover!" I don't know.

Anyway, my whole neighborhood is keeping you in their prayers at night, Trooperman. May the Force be with you and all those midiclorians in your blood.

mthaslett

Author
Time
Post link
OK- here goes, guys. There’s a dreadful amount of stuff to cover here, so I will take the suggestions one at a time and try not to skip anything.


In broad strokes, I propose that Anakin goes to aid Obi Wan NOT because it's the right thing to do-- but (since he's mad about his mom) because he gets pushed into it. At first, Anakin is ambivalent enough to follow orders and let the other Jedi handle the rescue (which, we learn, would have worked out fine). He doesn't feel compelled to save Obi Wan until Padme decides it's her job. To avoid seeming "sickeningly PC" ;-)-- this has to be character driven. That means every cut that leads up to this decision has to support a clear point: that Anakin isn't sure what he wants to do, but Padme is.

Then, once he takes on Padme's challenge, he's there for the job and handles himself as best he can, but doesn't come around to be Obi Wan's friend again until their shouting match about saving Padme. Until the moment he agrees with Obi Wan, he's really only there for Padme and hasn't regained any respect for Obi Wan.

It's after he hears Obi Wan's compliments and Obi Wan's logic about what Padme would want that Anakin becomes, once again, a Jedi Apprentice.

I see- that’s a really good idea. Also, as you said, it gives the movie more of an actual story than it had before. Obi-Wan is keeping Anakin from saving his mother. He goes anyway and she dies. Anakin is angry at Obi-Wan for the rest of the film, until the gunship scene. At the end, they are friends again in their common goal to fight Dooku, after Anakin realises the logic in Obi-Wan’s argument. There are still some things I’d rather not do as you suggested, but I’ll discuss those below.

C3P0: "...Obi Wan Kenobi. Master Anni..."

Just thought I’d mention that whenever possible, “Anni” is replaced with “Anakin.” A stylistic thing. I’m doing the same with the word “mom”- Anakin says “mother” in the dream- as well as “boyfriend”, “girlfriend”, and other words that don’t seem to fit in my opinion.

OBI WAN: (on tape) "Anakin..."
CUT TO: CU of unhappy Anakin as the message continues to play. Then...
CUT TO: Master shot again until Padme turns... (cutting on motion)
CUT TO: CU of Anakin as Obi Wan instructs them to relay the message... (cutting on motion)
CUT TO: CU of Padme as she turns to the button. CU on button, etc.

Aha! So we’re using editing (rather than dialogue) to imply that Anakin is in a quandary about what to do here. The only trouble is that I have only 2 or 3 CU’s of Anakin from that scene. I can play with them (reverse them, change their speed, etc.) but the material is limited. Good idea, though.

In showing this attack, reverse the close-ups of Padme and Anni. Start on Anni's reaction. He's surprised, but not moved... Cut to Padme, turning to Anni to see his reaction-- she's surprised by his reaction as well as by the message itself.

I can do that…

Mace: "Your most important thing is [cut] to protect the Senator at all costs."
(losing the line "stay where you are.")

And that as well. I see now that removing that direct order does make them seem less immature. As it stands, you kind of wonder why Mace Windu didn’t take greater precautions that Anakin didn’t intervene with Palpatine. He told him to wait around in the chambers. He didn’t listen before- isn’t that a little bit dangerous? This way, it makes Anakin, Padme and Mace all seem less stupid.

CUT the line "He's like a father to me."

Yes, because now, Anakin is angry at his master. He’s not saying nice things about him for the remainder of the film…

As a side note, I think this darker version of the scene makes the 3P0 lines at the end about "never having done space travel" more appropriate, so I hope you keep them.

I have kept this.

"They ordered you to protect me, and I'm going, so you have to come."

The painful line was actually, “And I’m going to help Obi-Wan. If you protect me, you’ll just have to come along.” I’m changing that to, “I want to help Obi-Wan. You have to come.” Anakin: I will come. He walks to the pilot’s chair. Anakin: But I’m doing it for you.

That’s more than an implication- that’s a very specific statement that I think will give this scene the intended meaning, especially in the absence of…

The short Anakin/Padme interior of ship scene on Geonosis. This is cut (along with the thing with the droids afterwards). We see the ship land in the fog, and then we see Anakin and Padme exit the ship. However, I have taken the droid exchange from this little deleted sequence and dubbed it over their second conversation, like so:

REPLACE: For a mechanic, you seem to do an excessive amount of thinking. WITH If they had needed our help, they would have asked for it, hmm?
REPLACE: I am programmed to understand humans! WITH You obviously have a great deal to learn about human behavior.
Next line is- Where are you going now? Etc.(CUT What does that mean? That means I am in charge here).
End the droid scene with 3PO saying: Have you no sense at all? Extend (probably slow the speed of) shot a bit to fit in the last word or two. Then cut to Anakin and Padme.


I suggest a line like this:
EXT. FLYING SPACE SHIP OVER GEONOSIS
Anakin: (V.O.) "We have no idea where he is. If I'm to protect you, we need a plan."
INT. FLYING SPACESHIP
Padme: "See those columns of steam straight ahead?-- they're exhaust vents of some type."
Anakin: "That'll do."

EXT. FLYING SPACE SHIP OVER GEONOSIS
Anakin: (V.O.) "We have no idea where he is. And frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn. Do you have a plan?

Just kidding (no Gone With the Wind here)


What about this:

INT. FLYING SPACESHIP
Anakin: We have no idea where Kenobi got himself incarcerated this time. So we need a plan.
Padme: See those columns of steam straight ahead?
Anakin: That'll do.

(I considered incorporating “He’s as clumsy as he is stupid,” but it’s too much of a nod to the OT). This is very hostile, though- is it too much so, in your opinion?

[OMIT the reference of "Obi Wan's going to kill me" when his light saber's destroyed]

Fine- I loved, “Obi-Wan’ll burn me alive,” but even that doesn’t fit with Anakin’s new hostility toward Obi-Wan.

Here's a big moment: Obi Wan and Anakin see each other for the first time. Obi Wan's surprised-- Anakin DOES NOT SMILE at him. He glares. Obi Wan rolls eyes.

Absolutely.

The couple are chained up and Obi Wan says "I wondered if you got my message." Anakin replies as scripted-- but the line reading is sinister and flat. "We got it. Then we came to save you, dick-head." "Good job" cracks Obi Wan. Do NOT show the embarrassed Anakin reaction shot.

Yes, but even Anakin wouldn’t be so disrespectful. I think I’ll leave the actual line as-is: I’ll just record it in a more hostile way.

The animals come out. CUT Anakin's "I got a bad feeling about this" line-- CUT the "what about Padme" lines. Anakin and Padme have a plan. They spring into action and Obi Wan is the one playing "catch up"-- not Anakin.

Yes. The only thing I have to do is to find another spot to put “I have a bad feeling about this”- it’s a Star Wars tradition.

Recut the action of the beasts so that Anakin's beast ATTACKS FIRST.
Then Padme's.
Then Obi Wan's. Obi Wan is left tied up the longest, the last to be attacked and the last to escape.

I’ll see if I can’t do that.


As the beast stabs at Obi Wan, pump up the anxiety with bigger BOOM Sound FX as the beast misses and crushes the ground.

Keep the tension building on OBI WAN and PADME as their struggles play out. Keep the Anakin "training the beast" beat for last. In other words, let the beats of Obi Wan and Padme play out AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE before Anakin gets anywhere with his attempt to train his beast. BUT...

Once things are terrible and Anakin approaches his beast with his hand outstretched-- play the FORCE MUSIC CUE. The force has a strong effect on the weak minded. Let's hear it -- and now we know Anakin's plan.

Then, in much more rapid cuts than the present edit, Anakin rescues Padme and Obi Wan. Let Anakin's success unravel their mess more quickly and directly.

Excellent ideas. Anakin=hero, while Padme and Obi-Wan almost get creamed. Again reinforcing Anakin’s ability.

THE DROIDS roll out... MUSIC CUE: when these droids come we need much scarier music. This should sound like the end of the frickin' world!

Don’t worry about that…

(As a side note in this battle: PLEASE cut the beat where Padme and Anakin jump onto the chariot and run around.

Yes.

Natalie Portman looks so silly holding that gun.

Exactly my thoughts on the subject.


The last great Anakin beats come as he and Padme ride with Obi Wan on the gun boat. Anakin naturally takes charge: Shoot at the fuel, he says. Good idea, compliments Obi Wan. That's a nice change-- maybe Obi Wan's not so bad...

Then Padme drops out and Anni goes nuts. Obi Wan gets in his face and challenges Anakin to now or never act like a Jedi! Anakin accepts the challenge and lets Padme go. Maybe a special music cue is called for here, I don't know. But this is the key moment at the climax of this character story.

Perhaps this is a good spot for a full-blown rendition of Anakin’s theme from Episode I- there’s a particular section I loved that was only found on the CD and never actually used in the movies. That would bump up the content a great deal emotionally (as it would with any scene it’s used in). Also, I think that the use of that theme would make even more sense when using the line, "I won't lose her like I lost my mother!" because the theme hearkens back to Episode I, Tatooine, and Shmi/Anakin relationship specifically.

I hope these ideas are clear. Thanks, Trooperman. I love working on this.

As do I- I’m so happy I have people like you to chat about this with. As I said before, you have much clearer ideas about the “Anakin character” part of Episode II than I did when I started on this, and some very brilliant twists on existing scenes to accomplish it. This is the type of input and feedback I hoped for when I put this project on the net. Thanks!


As for the "suicidally stupid" attack on Dukoo-- I think the important thing to cover is that it at least seems like a good idea. If Obi Wan says "Don't rush him" and Anakin rushes him-- it's like comedy. So the quick fix is to not have Obi Wan say "Don't rush him." If it could be worked into an even better beat, say, Anakin shows some patience, then Dukoo baits him and Anakin finally sees a chance and attacks what he thinks is a weakness-- well that would be awesome. If it can look like Anakin's doing something great and decisive only to be stopped dead, shocking him and the audience as well-- that's the best possible version of that beat.

It’s tricky- it’s rather limited as to what you can and cannot do with the entrance. I’ll see what I can do, though. It will be improved, however. How I've ended this scene now is not with Anakin lying on the floor, but with Dooku igniting his red saber. It's a revelation. Then, we cut to the battle outside. Up until this point, I've cut all references to "master" and made it seem as though Dooku might not actually be a Sith- so the red saber is a turning point. They have an enemy.

Oh, and also.- Han/Leia theme will not be in the prequels. But as I said, I might be able to slip in a subtle little variation in a scene (you’ll have to listen for it) as a tribute.

Thanks!

------------------------------------------
Commander Courage:

Qui-Gon: I've been thinking of ways to expand his role in the saga, as he is also my favorite charcter in the prequels (Liam Neeson is also my favorite actor). A good source would be the Episode 1 tone poems (I've mentioned these before in one of Obi-wanton's threads). I don't know if you're familiar with them

Absolutely! Thank goodness, there’s a tone poem featuring Shmi as well- this was great when working on the dream sequence (“Don’t look back”)

However, based on how you are handling his dreams, they would be an ideal place in insert the voice of Qui-Gon.

The Episode II dream has evolved into a rather long and kind of abstract piece of work, so just about anything can fit at this point.

Qui-Gon: It will be a hard life. One without reward. One with regret.
Shmi: Don’t look back. Anakin…
Anakin: Mother…
Image of beaten-up Shmi fades in (from black). Crossfade with Tuskens and also Anakin in bed, speaking in fragments
Anakin: No…please, no…mother…!!!!


That would work very well, actually. And Qui-Gon starts off the dream.

You mentioned rotoscoping lightsaber before; I would love to get a screenshot of your attempts.

Sure:
http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/2424/zmace1blue4al.jpg
http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/3109/zmace2blue4uz.jpg

Or, I could do this…
http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/6547/zmace10od.jpg
http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/5728/zmace20mx.jpg

I should post screenshots more often- I'll try to do it more.

As far as the overall music goes, I'm really excited to see how your alterations it into the film, as music (especially in Star Wars) can make a HUGE difference. Though I like the choice of "Uranus" as Dooku's theme, don't you think it's a bit bombastic, and is bound to get repetitive after awhile. Although you might have all this worked out already and rearranged it. Either way I think this merits more discussion.

Certainly. Dooku doesn’t really have a theme as much as just the 4-note motif from Uranus, and it doesn’t show up often- only once in a while for dramatic effect. For instance, it’s introduced when Dooku enters the interrogation room (where Obi-Wan is held). It is heard again in the arena as Dooku comes out. And finally, as Dooku turns around to face Obi-Wan and Anakin, it is used again.

Overall discussion about Count Dooku:

I still think that Count Dooku works better as a Sith. Star Wars has traditionally been very clear about who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. I like the Dooku is a Sith who realizes too late that he is completely disposable when someone better comes along. I just love when Palpatine says, "Kill him" and Dooku turns to look at him. I trusted you!

However, whether I decide to do Maul=Grievous or not will not affect Dooku's being a Sith in Episode II because in Episode I, Yoda's line will be changed to, "Always two there are; a master and an apprentice." Rather open-ended. And if I remember correctly, there was a very turbulent discussion over this in the beginning of Kevin's thread. However, I think that this is the best choice- but I can always change it to fit the other 2, as I'm doing Episode I last.

I have to get III done before I to complete my recording for Anakin. Without III, II is incompatible in SW. Another big picture plan- for Episode I, I am going to use a prologue before the Main Titles. It seems fitting to provide some history before beginning a 6-film saga. So we have the fanfare along with the Fox Logo, Lucasfilm Lmtd., etc. etc. Then, instead of going directly to "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away," we go to a new frame of text. "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, there was a great war. The Jedi Knights, guardians of peace and justice..." etc. We have brief shots of battles and spaceships and other things in between the background story. I'll need to do research into the EU for ideas on this.

Anyway (getting off-topic)...

I don't have time to expand on the logistic of Queen Padme Amildala, but I will I get the chance.

Please do!

What I've been keeping in mind, and I hope we all will, is that Episode 2 in whatever form it mayt be needs to be able to fit into Episode 3.

Definitely. I don't want to get into the Maul=Grievous discussion in this particular thread, as that's an Episode III/I problem, but I've definitely been thinking about how to tie things in to III and I. Jar-Jar is extremely difficult, because although he has only a handful of lines in this one, I have to use the same technique extensively in I (whatever it happens to be). However, I still think Dooku with a red saber and the "meeting with Sidious" scene at the end would fit in regardless of the Grievous issue.

Thanks very much for all the suggestions!

----------------------------------------------------

MTHaslett:Anyway, my whole neighborhood is keeping you in their prayers at night, Trooperman. May the Force be with you and all those midiclorians in your blood.

You haven't really told your whole neighborhood about this, have you? At present, I am only committed to sending out 3 copies of this- one to Rikter, one to MTHaslett, and one to Commander Courage. I can't commit to any more, so Rikter will be the distributor (unless MTH or CC make copies as well).

And also, everyone- please don't complain if I lag behind on this project. I'm working at the fastest rate possible right now, and it would kill me not to meet the deadline, but if I don't- it wasn't on purpose and there's nothing I can do.

Thanks for all your support and suggestions, everyone! I don't know what I'd do without you. I hope that if this edit is successful, it will start a trend of talking with different people about your edit before you begin, picking up previous edits for ideas, and in general not doing the whole thing in solitude.

Trooperman

EDIT: NO midichlorians in my cuts. None. "He could manipulate the Force to create life," will be Palpatine's line, as has been done in other edits.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
The Episode II dream has evolved into a rather long and kind of abstract piece of work, so just about anything can fit at this point.

I really like the way you are handling the dreams, and would suggest altering those in RotS to match. It seems MagnoliaFan is doing something similar in his dream, incorporating dialogue from Qui-Gon and Shmi as well. I would edit it just a bit different from you however:

Qui-Gon: It will be a hard life. One without reward. One without remorse. One without regret.
Shmi: Don’t look back. Anakin…
Anakin: Mother…
(Images and sounds of Tuskens attacking (from ANH), and beat up Shmi)
Anakin: No…please, no…mom!
(Cut to the close up of Anakin awakening from his nightmare)

I'd be against intercutting Anakin squirming in bed, as it takes focus away from the dream and just look awkward. The final shot of him opening his eyes at the end would be more effective, IMO.


http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/2424/zmace1blue4al.jpg
http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/3109/zmace2blue4uz.jpg
If you're going to change Mace's blade color, blue is definitely what to make it. I'm sure you'll be a good judge of whether it looks good or not.

Certainly. Dooku doesn’t really have a theme as much as just the 4-note motif from Uranus, and it doesn’t show up often- only once in a while for dramatic effect. For instance, it’s introduced when Dooku enters the interrogation room (where Obi-Wan is held). It is heard again in the arena as Dooku comes out. And finally, as Dooku turns around to face Obi-Wan and Anakin, it is used again.

I quite liked the "Seperatist Theme" used in AotC, very subtle, but effective. The Holst will be a neat alteration though. And I'm glad you decided against using the 2001 motif at the beginning of the duel (too recognizable).

You seem to have thought through everything about Dooku being a Sith, and I do like him and Sidious' final scene. A future RotS change I think is necessary with this would be a sound clip of Christopher Lee saying something along the lines of, "Wait! You don't understand!" Then Anakin cuts his head off.

I have to get III done before I to complete my recording for Anakin. Without III, II is incompatible in SW. Another big picture plan- for Episode I, I am going to use a prologue before the Main Titles. It seems fitting to provide some history before beginning a 6-film saga. So we have the fanfare along with the Fox Logo, Lucasfilm Lmtd., etc. etc. Then, instead of going directly to "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away," we go to a new frame of text. "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, there was a great war. The Jedi Knights, guardians of peace and justice..." etc. We have brief shots of battles and spaceships and other things in between the background story. I'll need to do research into the EU for ideas on this.

This is a very intriguing idea, one that certainly merits more in-depth discussion at a later time.

Queen Padme Amidala: I'm not sure how much of this applies to your edit, as what scenes and line have been added/cut. The Four People whose lines would have to be altered would be: Padme, Obi-Wan, Palpatine, and Mace (Anakin is not a problem as you're redubbing him anyway). All 4 of these characters have lines in TPM that can be scavenged for use in SotDS. "Queen," "Your Majesty," and "My Lady," can all serve as substitutes for "Senator." I'll have something more specific later.

At present, I am only committed to sending out 3 copies of this- one to Rikter, one to MTHaslett, and one to Commander Courage. I can't commit to any more, so Rikter will be the distributor (unless MTH or CC make copies as well).

I'm honored to be on the short list! My extreme nerditude is paying off!
Author
Time
Post link
Queen Padme Amidala: I'm not sure how much of this applies to your edit, as what scenes and line have been added/cut. The Four People whose lines would have to be altered would be: Padme, Obi-Wan, Palpatine, and Mace (Anakin is not a problem as you're redubbing him anyway). All 4 of these characters have lines in TPM that can be scavenged for use in SotDS. "Queen," "Your Majesty," and "My Lady," can all serve as substitutes for "Senator."

PALPATINE: "Oh, but I do [your majesty].

ANAKIN: So have you...grown more beautiful I mean [cut]...for a Senator I mean[cut].

TYPHO: I'm very grateful you're here, Master Kenobi. I'm Captain Typho, head of Her Majesty's security service. [cut]Queen Jamillia has informed you of your
assignment.[cut] The situation is more dangerous than the [Queen] will admit.

OBI-WAN: We're here to protect you [cut]Senator[cut], not to start an investigation

[cut]OBI-WAN: Do you know who it was you were trying to kill?
ZAM WESSEL: The Senator from Naboo.[cut]
OBI-WAN: Who hired you?
ZAM WESSEL: It was just a job.

YODA: Track down this bounty hunter, you must, Obi-Wan.
MACE WINDU: Most importantly, find out who he's working for.
OBI-WAN: What about [Queen] Amidala? She will still need protecting.
YODA: Handle that, your Padawan will.
MACE WINDU: Anakin, escort [the Queen] back to her home planet of Naboo. She'll be safer there. And don't use registered transport. Travel as refugees.
ANAKIN: As the leader of the opposition, it will be very difficult to get [her] to leave the Capital.
YODA: Until caught this killer is, our judgement she must respect.
[cut]MACE WINDU: Anakin, go to the Senate and ask Chancellor Palpatine to speak with her.[cut]

[cut] PALPATINE: I will talk to her. Senator Amidala will not refuse an executive order. I know her well enough to assure you of that.
ANAKIN: Thank you, your Excellency.[cut]

The entire apartment scene with Jar-Jar will be cut, as it will be implied he is the permanent Senator from Naboo (see later).

Btw, I don't know why everyone takes out "Don't worry, we have Artoo with us" I like the line; it's a natural thing to say in an awkward situation, and wouldn't be questioned if it was in the OT.

The entire scene of them walking the streets of Naboo will be cut. After the establishing shot of them landing in Theed cut to them approaching Theed.

MACE WINDU: Do you think these cloners are involved in the plot to assassinate [Queen Amidala]?

The alien dialogue is easy to change in subtitles.

MACE WINDU: Anakin, We will deal with Count Dooku. The most important thing for you is to stay where you are. Protect [Amidala] at all costs. That is your first
priority.

MAS AMEDDA: This is a crisis! The Senate must vote the Chancellor emergency powers! He could then approve the use of the clones.
PALPATINE: But what Senator would have the courage to propose such a radical amendment?
[cut]MAS AMEDDA: If only Senator Amidala were here.[cut]
Shot of Jar-Jar deep in thought; he is Senator of Naboo.

OBI-WAN: On his way to Naboo. He is escorting [Queen Amidala] home. I have to admit, without the clones, it would not have been a victory.

That's a pretty good overview of how to keep Amidala a Queen throughout. I have no idea the logistics of making that work technically, though. Thoughts?
Author
Time
Post link
Trooperman,

Excellent! Great to feel like our ideas mesh and I think your comments make it clear-- we're both after the same thing: a better story. Your changes to my suggestions make sense to me. Don't worry about any pressure to finish from me or my neighbors-- we'll all be happy whenever. (I can't believe I made the short list-- Righteous!).

TM:
INT. FLYING SPACESHIP
Anakin: We have no idea where Kenobi got himself incarcerated this time. So we need a plan.
Padme: See those columns of steam straight ahead?
Anakin: That'll do.

(I considered incorporating “He’s as clumsy as he is stupid,” but it’s too much of a nod to the OT). This is very hostile, though- is it too much so, in your opinion?


I think "clumsy/stupid" definitely crosses the line. I never meant for Anakin to outrightly express much hostility-- this version of Anakin is too classy and too repressed to do that. He's going to stew and keep his anger brewing in the subtext of his dialogue -- more like your suggested line above.

However, I think that particular line is stilted. Does this seem better to you?:
EXT. SPACESHIP
Anakin (OS): His signal's coming from deep underground. We have no idea where he's gone. We need a plan.
INT. SPACESHIP
Padme: See those columns of steam straight ahead?
Anakin: That'll do.

I think this version sets up how "seeing columns of steam" suggests a plan. Also, Anakin begins by listing a bunch of "reasons" this is difficult, but when Padme makes a single suggestion Anakin drops all his protests. He's a quick thinker and a natural leader who takes charge at the first opportunity.

I love the idea of hearing no Han/Leia theme, yet getting a rerranged "relative" of it. That would be appropriate and add a lot of OT style charm.

A side note (of no particular importance) -- another OT trait, or at least a "Star Wars" (ep IV/ANH) trait is the repeated use of the same footage if there isn't enough to create the scene you want. Regarding the scene where Anakin and Padme first receive Obi Wan's message and my suggestions for recutting to emphasize Anakin's p.o.v. -- I think there's enough footage to do my suggested cuts without slowing down/reversing or manipulating the shots. But if I'm wrong, you shouldn't be afraid to try using footage more than once because "episode IV" has a few shots like that too which I never noticed for 25 years or so.

I like Dukoo as a Sith. I don't have much enthusiasm about Padme always being a queen (although I'm sorry to differ in opinion with our comrade, Commander Courage). I agree that her being a queen makes "princess Leia" sound more sensible -- except isn't it supposed to be a secret that Padme is princess Leia's mom? That point doesn't really matter because it seems muddled in the current Saga anyway. But my objections center upon this: the theme of democracy vs. totalitarianism is the strongest, most important theme in the overall PT. Making Naboo a monarchy kind of defeats a lot of that-- which I'm against. Padme's best line in Ep III may be the one to the effect of: "So this is how freedom dies, to the sound of loud applause." Kind of an ironic statement from a born Royal. As a non-democratically chosen leader, she should be at home seeing an Emperor take over the Federation.

That's my feeling, anyway. Maybe the title "Queen" could be preserved for Padme throughout the trilogy without dumping her position's democratic roots somehow?

I love the screenshots. The "blue" shots still look kind of purple on my monitor, but I agree with CC that blue would be the best color. If it could be less saturated, it would look more OT. The green looks more convincing as the "intended" color in those shots.

I keep looking at the way the beasts come at Anakin/Padme/Obi Wan in the arena. I'm convinced the order they attack can be changed so Obi Wan comes last. The effect of this change maintains story momentum because it keeps the roles as they've been established: Obi Wan is the captor; Anakin and Padme are the rescuers. Having Obi Wan get attacked first chops off the connection between this scene and the ones that precede it.

I have to say, I don't think I've ever heard anyone suggest there could be an actual story at the heart of this movie before. I think with the changes you're making, Trooperman, you're in danger of actually pulling one together here. The real trick would be if Jar Jar could be made into a truly fun and interesting character in Episode I -- I suspect he could actually be made cool as opposed to just tolerable if his material were massaged enough. What a PT we'd have then, eh?

Author
Time
Post link
Hello!- I am currently working on the nightmare sequence for the final cut of SotDS. Just a couple more changes I wanted to share:

-The Geonosians are not actually seen until the dark tunnel with Anakin and Padme- artistic thing.

Remember the alien in Coruscant that goes, “What the…” in a high-pitched, corny voice? I’ve replaced that voice with a recording of George Lucas himself doing that line in a falsetto.

I really like the way you are handling the dreams, and would suggest altering those in RotS to match. It seems MagnoliaFan is doing something similar in his dream, incorporating dialogue from Qui-Gon and Shmi as well. I would edit it just a bit different from you however:

Qui-Gon: It will be a hard life. One without reward. One without remorse. One with regret.
Shmi: Don't look back. Anakin...
Anakin: Mother...
(Images and sounds of Tuskens attacking (from ANH), and beat up Shmi)
Anakin: No...please, no...mom!
(Cut to the close up of Anakin awakening from his nightmare)

I'd be against intercutting Anakin squirming in bed, as it takes focus away from the dream and just look awkward. The final shot of him opening his eyes at the end would be more effective, IMO.

I now have a final cut of the nightmare, with music. Now, all I need to do is add sound effects and dialogue and I’ll be done. As I was editing this and looking at my very limited Tusken Raider footage, I started experimenting with different things (horizontal flips, color changes, reversing the footage). When it was done and synchronized with music, it was magic. The music is very well synchronized with the dream. However, the dream turned out to be a lot more brutal than what we had talked about. I think this is justified because it can be argued that this is one of the two most critical scenes in the saga (the other being the dream from Episode III). I also have not blurred this dream in the same way as in III- perhaps, as you suggested, I can modify the one in III to match this one:

(black screen)
Qui-Gon: It will be a hard life. One without reward. One without remorse. One with regret.
(fade into footage of Tusken tents with flickering fires. Fade into shot of Shmi as dialogue goes…)
Shmi: Don’t look back. Anakin…
Anakin: Mother…
(Anakin is not seen)
Tusken Raider raises his staff. Red/orange clouds in background- scary. Also, scary lighting- slight gaussian blur effect are used for Raiders. Quick fade to large closeup of Shmi- still alive but clearly in pain.

Then, using only about three short usable shots of the Tuskens from the original SW, I’ve created a sequence where two (or maybe more- we don’t know) Tuskens beat Shmi to death. We see this in surprising detail. The sequence was created with color changes, vertical flips, and quick cuts/editing tricks. There are a few frames where you can see a figure in rags that they’re beating- this is actually Luke Skywalker, but you can’t tell and assume that it’s Shmi. Shot by shot:

Tusken slams his staff down on Shmi.
Other Tusken raises his staff with both hands.
Both Tuskens have raised staffs.
One slams his staff down, then the other.
The first Tusken raises his staff in the air. (from here on, it’s pretty brutal)
One Tusken hits her, then the other one, then the first one again…
Then, by reversing and forwarding the same shot, we see a Tusken beat her, raise his staff, beat her again, raise his staff (very quickly), etc. He does this about 5 times, beating and beating her. Meanwhile, we’re crossfading this with image of dead Shmi, eyes off in the distance and mouth hanging open.
During this sequence, we have sound effects of 1. Tuskens grunting and howling 2. Shmi screaming 3. The thump of every hit as the gaffi sticks hit the body.

The Tusken finishes beating her and raises his staff up and down in triumph. Scary lighting again. This shot is slowed down by a bit. Then, we fade to a close-up of Shmi, clearly dead. Then, we crossfade this close-up of dead Shmi with a slow zoom of Anakin in bed (from the dream). Cut to a close-up of Anakin in bed (at which time crossfade of Shmi goes away) and music builds and climaxes at the transition. We’re at the next scene, with Anakin staring out through the window.

Now, THAT is what I call an incentive to turn to the dark side. I hope others agree. Many shots in this sequence were actually accomplished by taking shots from the full-screen DVD and turning them into anamorphic widescreen to get the close-ups I needed. That took a while to figure out.

But watching this with just music (no sound effects yet)- it’s really magic for me. Very, very powerful scene now. I’ll post screenshots after I’ve finalized everything.

If you're going to change Mace's blade color, blue is definitely what to make it. I'm sure you'll be a good judge of whether it looks good or not.

I agree with CC that blue would be the best color.

Sure-I can make it blue. Is the problem with green that the purple might show through, while if you use blue, it wouldn’t be a big deal?


I quite liked the "Seperatist Theme" used in AotC, very subtle, but effective. The Holst will be a neat alteration though. And I'm glad you decided against using the 2001 motif at the beginning of the duel (too recognizable).

I liked the Separatist theme as well- I’m definitely not cutting any of that. The Holst motif is just used at several dramatic points involving Dooku, when formerly the music was just an indistinct blur. By the end, when you hear those four notes, you can identify them with Doou. Similarly, in Episode III, when Palpatine says, “Count Dooku,” and we see Dooku accompanied by battle droids- the motif will go there as well. It’s important for me to tie things up musically between the films as well.

And yes, I decided against the Space Odyssey theme for the beginning of the duel. Although I liked the idea, I realized that that is way too well-known to use for this. Even so, what do you think of a small hint of the “Lawrence of Arabia” theme when Anakin and Padme come to Tatooine?

You seem to have thought through everything about Dooku being a Sith, and I do like him and Sidious' final scene. A future RotS change I think is necessary with this would be a sound clip of Christopher Lee saying something along the lines of, "Wait! You don't understand!" Then Anakin cuts his head off.

That’s a good idea-would you know where to find the audio?
About the final scene with Dooku and Sidious- Palpatine no longer addresses Dooku as Tyrannus (the reference is also cut during the talk with Jango)

I can't believe I made the short list-- Righteous!
I'm honored to be on the short list! My extreme nerditude is paying off!

Indeed! You two have consistently provided excellent feedback with this (while nearly everyone else has lost interest) and therefore it seems fitting that you should be rewarded accordingly. Of course, a disc goes to Rikter because he distributes these and puts them on the Internet for others to see.

EXT. SPACESHIP
Anakin (OS): His signal's coming from deep underground. We have no idea where he's gone. We need a plan.
INT. SPACESHIP
Padme: See those columns of steam straight ahead?
Anakin: That'll do.

This sounds good.


I don't have much enthusiasm about Padme always being a queen (although I'm sorry to differ in opinion with our comrade, Commander Courage). I agree that her being a queen makes "princess Leia" sound more sensible -- except isn't it supposed to be a secret that Padme is princess Leia's mom? That point doesn't really matter because it seems muddled in the current Saga anyway. But my objections center upon this: the theme of democracy vs. totalitarianism is the strongest, most important theme in the overall PT. Making Naboo a monarchy kind of defeats a lot of that-- which I'm against. Padme's best line in Ep III may be the one to the effect of: "So this is how freedom dies, to the sound of loud applause." Kind of an ironic statement from a born Royal. As a non-democratically chosen leader, she should be at home seeing an Emperor take over the Federation.

I had never thought of that…hmmm. The way I really wanted to do this was for Padme to be a queen from birth, and then she resigns for some reason and becomes a Senator for II and III. Maybe she resigns because she doesn’t believe in the monarchy. I’ll really have to think about how to do this.

I keep looking at the way the beasts come at Anakin/Padme/Obi Wan in the arena. I'm convinced the order they attack can be changed so Obi Wan comes last. The effect of this change maintains story momentum because it keeps the roles as they've been established: Obi Wan is the captor; Anakin and Padme are the rescuers. Having Obi Wan get attacked first chops off the connection between this scene and the ones that precede it.

That’s a very good idea- I’ll try cutting it in that order.

The real trick would be if Jar Jar could be made into a truly fun and interesting character in Episode I -- I suspect he could actually be made cool as opposed to just tolerable if his material were massaged enough.

Ha ha- every PT editor is confronted with the problem of Jar-Jar. There’s only so much you can do with a CG character that looks like he does. The problem is that I have to confront this problem now, instead of just waiting until I- because Jar-Jar is a character in this one, too.

What do you think of Jar-Jar…speaking in English with either an uneducated British accent or an Australian accent? This would make him different and in contrast with all the other Gungans. It could also possibly give him some charm and wit lacking in any of the other versions. Utilizing some of the Magnoliafan subtitles and some of the original material (and my own ideas), his new dialogue would be recorded in synch with the character’s lips (not hard, as it’s a CG character).

Jar-Jar’s greeting: Obi-Wan- so nice to see you! Nice beard you have there. And who is this lad? It can’t be…
Obi-Wan: Anakin.
Jar-Jar: Anakin- great to see you again, old boy! Senator- the Jedi are here!

You may laugh (at how different this would be from the original Jar-Jar), but this could work out very well. There’s only one problem- I can’t personally do six different voices and expect them to all come out differently. Nobody who has the technology and talent wants to help because I haven’t contributed anything yet and they don’t trust that I can do a good job yet. Look at MagnoliaFan’s thread- the “Bizzle” is offering to record dialogue for Kevin’s new edits. He goes to my thread and says, “What a waste of time.” The truth is, not too many people are interested in my edit. And they won’t be until they actually see it (at which point it’ll be too late).

Thanks- more updates soon!

Trooperman

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
-The Geonosians are not actually seen until the dark tunnel with Anakin and Padme- artistic thing.
That works; suspense and all that. (I assume this is excluding Poggle the Lesser) That makes for only two edits IIRC: The Geonosians watching Obi-Wan record his message and the guards outside Obi-Wan's cell.

The Lucas audio is a very creative change, an easter egg to look out for. The nightmare is sounding very intense, which is a very good thing, it should be! I can't wait to see the finshed product for this scene in particular. One question though, in the next scene Anakin is looking out a window? This would be Padme's apartment, but weren't you going to cut that scene?

Sure-I can make it blue. Is the problem with green that the purple might show through, while if you use blue, it wouldn’t be a big deal?
That is part of it yes, not to mention Mace's lightsaber was blue for a long time in the EU before Lucas officially gave-in to Sam Jackson's request of purple. All that aside, I think it just looks better/suits him better than green.

Similarly, in Episode III, when Palpatine says, “Count Dooku,” and we see Dooku accompanied by battle droids- the motif will go there as well. It’s important for me to tie things up musically between the films as well.
Funny you should mention that, as it is THE scene I envision of Dooku when listening to the theme. I believe we'll find it fits there the best out of all the Dooku stuff.

Even so, what do you think of a small hint of the “Lawrence of Arabia” theme when Anakin and Padme come to Tatooine?
That's a thought. Are we wanting to give Tatooine a theme here? Maybe, but I think there are some things that are fine just the way they are. I don't want to overkill the altered music, as it is one of my favorite aspects, but it's appropriate in some places and inappropriate in others.

That’s a good idea-would you know where to find the audio?
About the final scene with Dooku and Sidious- Palpatine no longer addresses Dooku as Tyrannus (the reference is also cut during the talk with Jango)

So even with Dooku as a Sith, there is no "Darth Tyranus"? That would technically make him "Darth Dooku," and I'm not too sure about that. Of course, NO ONE calls him Tyranus outside that one conversation in AotC, but surely there is a good way to handle this.

And yes, anyone with extensive knowledge of Christopher Lee's filmography: Help! Surely SOMETHING along the lines of, "No, wait! You don't understand! He's---," can be cobbled together. The look he gives Palpatine is good, yes, but I really do think dialogue like that would enhance the scene and give Dooku an even more shocking death.

Indeed! You two have consistently provided excellent feedback with this (while nearly everyone else has lost interest) and therefore it seems fitting that you should be rewarded accordingly. Of course, a disc goes to Rikter because he distributes these and puts them on the Internet for others to see.

Thanks TM, I don't see why more people wouldn't be interested in a project like this. It's the most ambitious fan edit yet, and your idea of working together to brainstorm and bounce ideas around is certainly making for a superior product. I think I can speak for MTHaslett when I say WE have the easy job; coming up with ideas in our spare time is fun, but YOU have to figure out a way to execute everything, not to mention the time it's going to take to put all this together. I salute you!

I had never thought of that…hmmm. The way I really wanted to do this was for Padme to be a queen from birth, and then she resigns for some reason and becomes a Senator for II and III. Maybe she resigns because she doesn’t believe in the monarchy. I’ll really have to think about how to do this.

Yeah, Lucas really left us with quite a dilemma. I appreciate his attempts to show a different culture in that galaxy far, far away by having an elected Queen, but the fact that she is FOURTEEN is rather silly. Add to that the fact that Padme tells Anakin in AotC she "wasn't the youngest Queen ever elected." Ridiculous. It would make MUCH more sense for her to be born a Queen and remain one throughout life. But MTHaslett does make a really good point about, "So this is how Liberty dies? To thunderous applause." And yes, the confusing nature of all the titles in Star Wars makes this all the more difficult. But I don't think "resigning" from being Queen is the answer, nor is it necessary. My comparison to Leia was not in reference to her being Padme's daughter, rather SHE fought for democracy and served in the Senate as a Princess, and was referred to as "Your Highness" and all that. Princess and Queen here are both titles of ceremony, but Leia and Padme choose to take the next step and actually serve their people in the democratic system of the Republic (and later the Imperial Senate).

What do you think of Jar-Jar…speaking in English with either an uneducated British accent or an Australian accent? This would make him different and in contrast with all the other Gungans. It could also possibly give him some charm and wit lacking in any of the other versions. Utilizing some of the Magnoliafan subtitles and some of the original material (and my own ideas), his new dialogue would be recorded in synch with the character’s lips (not hard, as it’s a CG character).

I still think an alien language is the best way to go with the Gungans and Nemoidians. I like the line about the beard though. And you keep referring to MagnoliaFan as Kevin, as in Kevin Smith, but I think it's been pretty much confirmed he is NOT Kevin Smith.
Author
Time
Post link
Trooperman--

Keep the faith! The impact your plans have on this board don't matter. It's in the product-- either your edit will rock or it will suck. There is enough material going into this version to make it stand completely apart from anything else out there. Personally, I quite enjoyed "BotF," but thought "The Clone War" left a lot to be desired. I had the uncomfortable problem of watching it and thinking "well, why didn't you change THAT?" every minute or so. I don't think anyone's seen ways to fix the structural problems of the AotC script before. With the dreams, the re-edited romance, the anger at Obi Wan-- this edit will actually have a story. When it's all said and done, that's the most important change that can be made. The final act of TPM or BotF needs this kind of work too -- the death of Qui Gon has to affect Anakin and that affect has to have an impact on the defeat of the Trade Federation. Without that beat, Ep I is still unfinished. But getting completion on that level in Ep II has been more difficult and will be more surprising to fans who check out SotDS.

Your dream notes sound fantastic. You've gone the extra mile to make that beat work. Now Anakin will be so much more sympathetic.

As for adding a Dukoo line before his death in Ep III -- the line could be as simple as "Wait--!" which has to exist somewhere in LOTR or SW.

I hear CC's ideas about the title of "Queen" being ceremonial and having her give up her throne and fighting for democracy -- but it can't just be assumed that she did all that without somehow putting that material into the movie. Maybe the opening crawl? At any rate, the romance story will miss the "walk" on Naboo where they talk about Anakin's mom. That scene does double duty of talking about democracy and talking about Anakin. I don't necessarily love the idea of young elected queens-- but I don't hate it. I can conceive of a space government that trusts the good heart of young ladies, their clarity and present mindedness. I wish they'd made this clearer. I just kind of dread the potential holes that will appear if we drop the "democracy" of Naboo.

I agree with CC that Gungans seem to need alien voices-- but the idea of an Australian Jar Jar does a lot to make him more interesting. I would take these ideas and marry them -- if Jar Jar's alien voice could lose the "whacky Jamaican" accent and sound tougher, deeper-- he'd be a LOT easier to take. Could he talk "Gungan" with an Australian accent?

Commander Courage is absolutely right, we brainstormers get the fun job. You have to face the bugs, glitches, mixing problems, and crashes of editing. You have all my respect and I'll help any way I can--

Which means I'd better volunteer to be Lama Su if you still need someone. I can get access to equipment if you can tell me what you need me to do.



Author
Time
Post link
Hey guys, first time poster but LONG time reader on these boards. I have been addicted to this site since I ran across Magfan's edits several months ago and have also been keeping up to date on all the edits that are being conducted now. Of course, troopermans edits have the most potential to be very successful in re-interpreting the prequel movies.

I know that the subject has already been discussed but I must clarify that I can't wait to see these movies with more enticing sound and music. I think to successfully make these movies stand up to par with the classic trilory, then the entire scores should be redone. I know that trooperman is doing this with his edit, but even taking what good music was there and turning it up a bit so that it is not soo buried in the audio tracks would have more of a star wars flow to it. It will also help with all the cutting of clips and swapping them around to have the music retracked and flowing smoothly through the newly editted scenes. This I think is going to help all the editting flow into a seamless "new" Episode II. There's actually alot of good acting moments in the prequel trilogy that could be especially punctuated if the music had been more emotional or even up to a decent feeling in the mix. I would also do away with alot of the "spliced" sound mixes that are all over episodes I and II. The jango fight and the arena battle tracks are all soo bouncy that it made everything seem kinda "dopey dopey" and not nearly as dynamic (just my opinion). But anyway, I just wanted to drop myself in and send my support to you guys on these projects.

Also, just to boot up the conversation a bit:
Many of you guys have been "working" with trooperman and have proved that an amazing star wars movie lies beneath Episode II:attack of the clones with a change of music, editting, ADR and some character flow. Now, i think that the same could/ and should be done for episodes I and III. And by that I mean a total overhaul similar to the work being done to Shroud of the Dark Side. I was wondering if anybody had any good ideas on how to change the character development, pacing, music, or even ADR of The Phantom Menace? And although Revenge of the Sith was a very good star wars prequel, I wouldn't show it any mercy either. I have a few ideas popping around my head but was wondering how others on this forum would re-construct Episodes I and III. Thanks for your time fellas and I look forward to taking part in the conversation now.
Author
Time
Post link
Sorry for the long delay- I'm very busy...

One question though, in the next scene Anakin is looking out a window? This would be Padme's apartment, but weren't you going to cut that scene?

Yes- partially. I'm cutting everything but the scene where Jar-Jar is given the task of being the Senator for Naboo in Padme's absence.

Jar-Jar (maybe subtitled): Don't worry your pretty little head about it, miss. With a brilliant political mind such as mine taking care of things, what could possibly go wrong?

CUT to Anakin looking over at Jar-Jar, then looking back out through the window. CUT to "Be safe, milady" in the next scene. (a transition would be odd for such a short scene)

Mace's lightsaber was blue for a long time in the EU before Lucas officially gave-in to Sam Jackson's request of purple. All that aside, I think it just looks better/suits him better than green.

Sounds good

Are we wanting to give Tatooine a theme here?

Not really- just more of a tribute, maybe.

So even with Dooku as a Sith, there is no "Darth Tyranus"? That would technically make him "Darth Dooku," and I'm not too sure about that.

Yeah, that does sound rather stupid, on second thought.

surely there is a good way to handle this.

???
I wasn't actually planning on Sidious saying, "Darth Dooku"- I was either going to cut that line completely or shorten it to, "Welcome home." Maybe Dooku was such a temporary project to Sidious (who was really working on Grievous) that he didn't even bother to give him the "Darth" title. Still thinking about this...

Naboo=Monarchy issue:

I honestly don't know. As it stands, Padme is a senator in II and III because I think you'd lose more than you'd gain from the scenes and clips of scenes you'd have to cut to make it work. Honestly, that aspect of it never bothered me.

However, the "elected at 14" thing seems very silly as well, especially since she does say that she wasn't the youngest queen ever elected. If that line is the most bothersome, I can change it to, "I was the youngest queen ever elected, and I'm not sure I was ready."

Jar-Jar: Pretty much depends on whether I can get a foreign language DVD (like German) that won't be as recognizable as Spanish or French. But if he has an alien language, then so will the Nemoidians and the other Gungans. I really want Jar-Jar to have kind of Australian/British subtitles (using "lad" and "jolly good time" and things like that). I could also easily lower his voice if that is an irritation.

And you keep referring to MagnoliaFan as Kevin, as in Kevin Smith, but I think it's been pretty much confirmed he is NOT Kevin Smith.

No comment, except...don't be so sure.

Your dream notes sound fantastic. You've gone the extra mile to make that beat work. Now Anakin will be so much more sympathetic.

I can't wait for everyone to see that. Out of everything I've done so far, I'm most proud of this.

As for adding a Dukoo line before his death in Ep III -- the line could be as simple as "Wait--!" which has to exist somewhere in LOTR or SW.

I would look through LOTR when doing this scene for III- I'm sure it's there somewhere.

Which means I'd better volunteer to be Lama Su if you still need someone. I can get access to equipment if you can tell me what you need me to do.

Thanks a lot- actually, I have one person already signed up to do it (and he'll do it if no one else auditions). ChainsawAsh was originally going to do it, but he had video card/sound card problems and was not able to do it. However, if you really are available to do voices, it would be a wonderful resource in the future. Thank you!

-------------------------
Hi, Darthpreston! I agree with everything you've said regarding the music. I have a html doc containing all of the music cuts that were made for Episode II- and it's an unbelievable mess. I definitely want to turn the music up and make it flow as it should.

There's actually alot of good acting moments in the prequel trilogy that could be especially punctuated if the music had been more emotional or even up to a decent feeling in the mix.

I agree- and that's also a John Williams problem. Listen to how carefully crafted the battle music for the attack on the Death Star was, and then listen to the music for the arena. BIG difference. The arena and the clone war will have sound mixes almost completely from scratch.

Now, i think that the same could/ and should be done for episodes I and III. And by that I mean a total overhaul similar to the work being done to Shroud of the Dark Side.

There are some wonderful ideas in this thread for Episode III. I'd love to hear your ideas, though!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

First four minutes of the film are completed (except for the crawl). Done. Final video and final sound mix. Now, I'm working on the droid factory sequence. This is undergoing dramatically different color correction. And I have a question for Lucas and Co.- Why didn't you adjust brightness, contrast, saturation, and color after completing the shots? Because the CGI looks so realistic in the droid factory scene now, it isn't funny. It's more dramatic to see the silhouettes of the machines than bright red chords and bright yellow trays.

More on this in the near future (with screenshots)

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
The way that I think of the monarchy issue...
England has a queen. She's a figurehead, but that's it. The nation is still run by elected officials.

Amidala = Queent Elizabeth (but Ami is more hands on)
Sio Bibble = Tony Blair

It's not exactly the same, but you can read a slight parallel into it.
If you removed the "elected queen" thing, that should be enough without making drastic changes to explain things that don't need to be explained.

http://twitter.com/TheMagnoliaFan

http://www.youtube.com/user/magnoliafan78

Author
Time
Post link
MagnoliaFan- thanks for the comments! (I didn't know you were reading this thread).

The way that I think of the monarchy issue...
England has a queen. She's a figurehead, but that's it. The nation is still run by elected officials.

If you removed the "elected queen" thing, that should be enough without making drastic changes to explain things that don't need to be explained.

That's a very good point- as a matter of fact, that makes a lot of sense. It also requires minimal work compared to the other option. And in thinking about this, lines like "We are a democracy! The people have decided," in Episode I actually make it quite clear that Naboo is a democracy, even with the born queen. Padme's statement in Episode III, then, is not hypocritical because 1. Her home planet is a democracy, 2. She's been a senator since II, and 3. Who cares at this point anyway?- it isn't as if someone comes out and points out that Padme was not elected democratically. We just take out the "elected" business and leave the audience to their own conclusions. I agree that there's no need to go to a lot of trouble explaining something when all the film requires is...a lack of explanation. No contradictions this way. In thinking about how to do it, it never occured to me that you could have Padme be non-democratically elected and still have Naboo as a democracy.

Everyone- that's the official press release on the issue of the "elected queen" and the monarchy. Case closed


MagnoliaFan-also want to take this opportunity to thank you for doing your own edits. I own the original "Balance" and "Clone War", and even hearing about them before I saw them partially inspired the dubbing for this project. I knew it wasn't a completely crazy idea because someone had done it already. And yours are the only other edits that I know of to enhance storyline and characters using subtitles like that. Great job!

I hope that you are not insulted or offended when I talk about your work or discuss using it for my own edit- but know that I appreciate it very much and that you are free to use any of my ideas, seeing as yours have been such a help to me. As I've said before, this edit wouldn't be possible without a great many other people, and you're definitely one of them.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are a few screenshots to give everyone an example of what I'm doing for the droid factory scene.

http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/3345/sw21ti.jpg

Comparison:

http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/20/sw1a9ky.jpg
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3124/sw16ln.jpg


http://img324.imageshack.us/img324/9883/sw3a2aw.jpg
http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/2863/sw34mm.jpg


The general lighting of this turned out to be purple. I had originally made it red, but this interfered with the coloring of the blue saber. Therefore, I added some blue back in, and I came out with purple, which is still quite dramatic visually. Perhaps this will make up for the absence of Windu's purple saber

No mercy is being shown to the CG shots here. I'm changing a lot more CGI than I had planned on, simply because it's so easy and it makes such a difference in the realism of the images. I'm also going to stick to an earlier idea of mine to add white blaster flashes to the battle sequences (like in the original SW).

This visual stuff has just become very easy with my software.

Another question folks may have is... how are you going to encode the DVD? Will it be awful and pixelated, are you doing copies with the exact same bitrate for each scene, etc. I am rendering the whole film out as an uncompressed anamorphic AVI. I will then consult the official DVD for the bitrate of each individual scene, and I'll encode each scene to MPEG2 manually with the different bitrates and piece it together at the end, in an attempt to prevent too much quality loss.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
Jar-Jar: I didn't know you could alter audio enough to lower the pitch of his voice; that's an excellent idea! And I'm all for giving him some class with British-style subtitles if you think it'll work w/out being distracting.

"Darth Dooku": This could all work very well into a possible Maul=Grevious subplot, as Dooku will in no way be reffered to as "Darth." (And I know you'll be changing Yoda's line, but it still makes more sense mind my mind). Of course Palpatine refers to him as a Sith Lord in RotS, so unless you'd want to edit around that, he'll simply be "Count Dooku: Sith Lord." For the end of Episode 2, I'd suggest either cutting Sidious 1st line, or pluging in a Palpatine "Count Dooku" from RotS.

Queen/Senator Amidala: If I understand correctly, the plan is Padme is a born Queen, but she's reffered to as Senator in 2&3 as it is the capacity she is currently serving in? Where does that leave the line, "I was the youngest queen ever elected, and I'm not sure I was ready," and the rest of Anakin and Padme's walk on Naboo for that matter? Were you still going to bring this up in a Gunray/Dooku conversation? If not, what were plans on how to do that? Regardless of my questions, I think this is a good solution that covers most of everything, and is in-line with the point I was trying to make earlier about Princess Leia serving in the Imperial Senate. Only then she was still referred to as "Princess," which is what I was suggesting be altered with Padme, a few references to "Queen" here and there. But overall I think we've found our answer.

Speaking of Kevin(), did he ever reveal to you his way of removing the nowhere subplot of Syfo-Dias ordering the clones? I'm not asking for this apparently secret info, but was curious as to whether you had a way/were going to use his way in SotDS?

Screencaps: WOW. There is no argument the environments look unquestionably improved and realistic. However, Anakin and Padme's skin seems to have turned blue as a side effect. Is there any way around this?
Author
Time
Post link
Jar-Jar: I didn't know you could alter audio enough to lower the pitch of his voice; that's an excellent idea! And I'm all for giving him some class with British-style subtitles if you think it'll work w/out being distracting.

It’ll almost definitely work- the only trouble now is getting a German language DVD for Episode I. I have to have this so that I know I’ll be able to do Jar-Jar for Ep. I in the same way. There’s a guy on Ebay that’s been trying to sell a German copy of Ep. II on DVD for ages now, but so far I’ve not come across Ep. I. Here’s hoping!

"Darth Dooku": This could all work very well into a possible Maul=Grevious subplot, as Dooku will in no way be reffered to as "Darth." (And I know you'll be changing Yoda's line, but it still makes more sense mind my mind). Of course Palpatine refers to him as a Sith Lord in RotS, so unless you'd want to edit around that, he'll simply be "Count Dooku: Sith Lord."

Exactly. He’s a Sith lord, but he’s so temporary and unimportant that he doesn’t even get the “Darth” title. (so I’m definitely not going to take out the Palpatine/Obi-Wan exchange).

For the end of Episode 2, I'd suggest either cutting Sidious 1st line, or pluging in a Palpatine "Count Dooku" from RotS.

I’ll see if I can plug in a “Count Dooku” from either Ep. II or III.

Queen/Senator Amidala: If I understand correctly, the plan is Padme is a born Queen, but she's reffered to as Senator in 2&3 as it is the capacity she is currently serving in?

Yes.

Where does that leave the line, "I was the youngest queen ever elected, and I'm not sure I was ready," and the rest of Anakin and Padme's walk on Naboo for that matter?

In a big mess. However, I can edit it so that they still have a conversation and not contradict the new scenario in any way. Starting with the complete unedited scene from Disc 2 on the official DVD:

Anakin: When I first started my training, I was very homesick. Etc. etc. until…

Anakin: Tell me- did you dream of power and politics when you were a little girl?
Padme: No, that was the last thing I thought of. DIALOGUE CUT…

Padme: Actually, I had hoped to have a family of my own by now. My sister has the most amazing, wonderful kids.

Padme: But when I was asked to serve as Senator, I couldn’t refuse. (edited from “but when the queen asked me to serve as Senator, I couldn’t refuse her”)

And scene continues until end.

Obviously, some lines would be dubbed over different video so it doesn’t appear as though they jumped from one place to the next. Actually…maybe not. Maybe I’ll just do a hard cut. In any case, it will work and the scene will remain in the film.

Were you still going to bring this up in a Gunray/Dooku conversation? If not, what were plans on how to do that?

No- no Gunray/Dooku conversation, because she explains why she was a Senator during the walk on Naboo. (she was asked to serve). It’s no longer necessary.

Only then she was still referred to as "Princess," which is what I was suggesting be altered with Padme, a few references to "Queen" here and there.

I can incorporate that as well, as a reminder that she is still the Queen as well. So she gets both titles, but is usually called Senator now. I could say “Queen Amidala” instead of “Senator Amidala” in the opening crawl, but 1. The .AI file is already finished and Jeten San Hett is working on scrolling it, and 2. This would introduce confusion when the pilot addresses the decoy as “Senator”. (I kept the interior scene, but I cropped from the full-screen DVD, removed the decoy’s badly read line (“very good, lieutenant”), and added a subtle ship beeping noise in the right channel. I think I already said that the film is done from the end of the opening crawl to the establishing shot of the conference room with Palpatine and the others.

It’s interesting to note, CC, that I had already made many of the cuts you suggested in a previous post, albeit for different reasons.

did he ever reveal to you his way of removing the nowhere subplot of Syfo-Dias ordering the clones? I'm not asking for this apparently secret info, but was curious as to whether you had a way/were going to use his way in SotDS?

He was kind enough to let me in on this, but since he PM’d me about it I would assume that he wants it to be a surprise. It is a very good solution and I will be using it as well.

Screencaps: WOW. There is no argument the environments look unquestionably improved and realistic. However, Anakin and Padme's skin seems to have turned blue as a side effect. Is there any way around this?

There are definitely ways to reduce this. For the closer-up shots of Anakin or Padme, I can bring back some of the original saturation to get the flesh tones back. Not too much, though. I wouldn’t do this with far shots. I’ll work with it some more and post some screenshots at a later time.

Something else- The Geonosians never actually fire their guns. The humour here is that they were all given guns but are incapable of using them. They point them at people (like Anakin), but they never quite have the brainpower or the reflexes to pull the trigger in time. So the weird sonic blasts are cut.

Arena/Clone War extravaganza- This is so big and so time-consuming I don’t even want to start worrying about it until I have to.

Overall progress on project- The Jedi Council scene immediately following the Coruscant part of the film has been pretty much completed, with dubbing. I haven’t got the greatest microphones, but I have very good noise-reduction technology that’s allowing me to get good results. The big trouble with this scene is that my line has to fit in perfectly with everything surrounding it. There’s no music to cover anything up, no sound effects- nothing. That made this scene difficult to do, and eventually I had to rerecord the dialogue using a different technique. In the end, the scene is very successful and the interaction between the real actors and myself is seamless.

So what has been done so far:

1.Nightmare (without sound effects)
2.Landing on Coruscant/Decoy is killed/transition into next scene- completely finished
3.Jedi Council scene- almost finished
4.Droid factory- work in progress
5.Dark tunnel with Geonosians- ADR completed, playing with colors

Trooperman

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

Author
Time
Post link
Queen Padme Amidala serving as Senator! I like it, a lot!

You mentioned the opening crawl, I had been meaning to bring that up again. I know we've been over this before (and you have the final say of course) but the title, which I was satisfied with originally, I really do think should be changed considering you plan to go with "Balance of the Force," and "Revenge of the Sith," for I and III. This makes the entire PT consist of ___ of the ___ titles. "Dark Force Rising" or "Dark Force Ascendent" have always been favorites of mine. I do like "Shroud of the Dark Side," I just think it will be a bit repetitive. And I would alter your crawl in the following manner:

Episode II
DARK FORCE ASCENDENT

It has been ten years since Surpeme Chancellor Palpatine assumed leadership of the Galactic Senate, and unrest once again pervades galaxy. Several thousand systems have declared their intentions to secede from the Republic.

This separatist movement, under the leadership of the mysterious Count Dooku, have made it especially difficult for the limited number of Jedi Knights to maintain peace and order in the galaxy.

Queen Padme Amidala, now serving as Senator of Naboo, is en route to Coruscant to vote on the critical issue of creating an ARMY OF THE REPUBLIC to assist the overwhelmed Jedi....

Palpatine wasn't exactly elected, so "assuming leadrship" is more in line with his dubious rise to power. The full titles of Palpatine and Padme make everything more 'official.' I made reference to Padme's current political status, and overall altered the crawl to match more with the original. And while I see where you were trying to parallel the last paragraph of ANH's text with "pursued by....," and while it does sound more dynamic, it's not exactly a true repesentation of what's going on. Those are just my suggestions, and once again you're the boss, so if you don't agree with them/don't want to redo the opening I understand.

And I take it you're referring to my notes about Padme remaining a Queen. Yes, some of the edits work regardless. Such as cutting Windu telling Anakin to ask Palpatine about Padme leaving Coruscant. Now it plays as Anakin going to tell his friend and mentor the good news about finally getting a mission of his own.

I'm glad you and MF got in contact and collaborated on the Syfo-Dias solution. I look forward to be surprised by something in this edit!

And since you can control the pitch of audio I wouldn't worry about Jar-Jar's yodelling in TPM and go for the German version!
Author
Time
Post link
Sorry for the wait:

I’ve had Jeten San Hett redo the crawl more than once already, and I’ve already sent him the AI file, so I can’t really change the crawl at this point, although I would have liked to take your suggestion and change “Ten years after the election of Palpatine” to “Ten years after Palpatine assumed power of the Galactic Senate.” As for the title, my favorite at this point really is “Shroud of the Dark Side”. However, that is a very good point about the repetitiveness of the titles. Since I really like “Revenge of the Sith” as well, it seems that the only other option would be to change the title of Episode I. Maybe “Vergence in the Force” like ADigitalMan did. Or here’s another thought- remember how the original SW crawl didn’t even have an episode number or title for 4 years? Maybe Episode I doesn’t even need a title besides Star Wars, coming first in the series. That’s a crazy thought, but still… anyway, I would rather change the Ep. I title than the Ep. II title.

Such as cutting Windu telling Anakin to ask Palpatine about Padme leaving Coruscant. Now it plays as Anakin going to tell his friend and mentor the good news about finally getting a mission of his own.

Exactly- that was a big one.
Palpatine: So…they’ve finally given you an assignment.
Anakin: Yes.
Palpatine: Your patience has paid off. Etc.

Be warned, Jar Jar sounds like yodeller in it.

Is that right? Luckily, if I were to get hold of this DVD, the German audio is supposed to be 5.1 surround so it should contain nice clear readings so that I can lower the pitch separately from the music and everything else.

Does anyone know if you can use German Amazon (amazon.de) from the US?


I'm glad you and MF got in contact and collaborated on the Syfo-Dias solution. I look forward to be surprised by something in this edit!

Ha ha- actually, you'll be surprised by more things than you think- there's quite a bit of stuff I haven't revealed to anyone, because it works so well and I don't want to change it.

This edit will have far more alternate music than any other. Often it's an artistic decision, but sometimes it's out of necessity because of scene transitions or dubbed lines. It could be that I liked the original music just as much but could not use it due to the lack of the complete soundtrack. I was able to get a lot of unreleased music from the surround channels on the DVD, but there are quite a few cases where the voices leak through. In those cases, I have to find a completely new cue, dig out the center speaker track (with the voices) and go from there.

Landing in the steam vents on Geonosis to middle of droid factory scene- practically done.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition