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Post #1260374

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Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD *
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18-Dec-2018, 5:26 AM
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18-Dec-2018, 5:29 AM
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SilverWook said:

Valheru_84 said:

SilverWook said:

Valheru_84 said:

DrDre said:

rodneyfaile said:

Han Solo, General Leia, and Master Skywalker are not losers.

Han went from a hero and General in the Rebellion, and being ready for a committed relationship with Leia to going back to smuggling, abandoning his wife and son, and then got stabbed go death by his son in a last ditch effort to save him. Luke went from being the last Jedi, who redeemed his father to falling from his faith completely, just wanting to die, abandoning his family, friends, and the galaxy as a whole, only to die from Force exhaustion in a last ditch effort to save the handful of remaining rebels. Leia went from being one of the leaders of the Rebel Alliance and of the New Republic, while starting a family to being a general of a band of rebels that can fit in the Millenium Falcon having lost her husband and son. In the context of where they were at the end of the OT, each of the big three lost in a major way, and worst of all after building a powerful friendship over the course of three films would not share a single scene together in the new trilogy with Luke only becoming aware of the death of his best friend after the fact.

Hi Dre,

Just thought I’d say that you’re still doing a great job in representing those that found TLJ to be an abhorrent (or at the very least distasteful) addition to the Star Wars saga and continuing to shine light on all the reasons it is by far the worst Star Wars movie to date if only due to the damage it has done to the Star Wars fandom and the franchise itself. You’ve got my full support in standing up for our perspective and I wish I could be half as involved in discussing it as you are but currently I just can’t be bothered (nor have the time) to get entrenched again in arguments about TLJ and Disney/Lucasfilm reactions to the criticism.

Just didn’t want you to think you are alone in your views on TLJ that you always so accurately and thoroughly express 😃


TLJ didn’t damage the fandom, that was self-inflicted.

Sorry but I strongly disagree. You only have to go actively looking for it and you will see the fallout everywhere. But that’s still a matter of opinion which we can courteously agree to disagree on.

The damage to my own enjoyment of Star Wars was certainly not self-inflicted, it was an adverse reaction to what I had to experience as a new official episode to a saga that up to that point I had loved every episode of (even the PT though my adult enjoyment of them are greatly enhanced now by fan edits).

I am a Star Wars fan through and through which makes me part of the fandom. To say all my grievances and issues with TLJ are self-inflicted is pretty nasty.


You don’t think there were some who overreacted a tad? Demonizing the director, harassing a certain actress online? Epic length youtube video rants on why the movie sucks? I’m surprised nobody made a bonfire of all their action figures and toys and posted the video.

Only replying to this one since it’s still an open matter directly involving me.

Of course there are those that massively overreacted, took things out of context and used it for ulterior motives. Demonising the director or harassing any actor or actress for their god awful character is clearly not on. These are all part of a fringe extreme minority of fans that do a massive disservice to the fandom and those that have legitimate and reasonable criticisms with the movie. When I talk about the aspect of the fandom that is damaged, I refer to many other people who feel the same as me to either the same extent or differing levels. People that are so disinterested in any future Star Wars because of TLJ and numerous other contributing factors that the franchise might as well be in hibernation again until someone else picks up the mantel to have another crack at making good Star Wars movies.

As to the epic length youtube videos…if they’re just an unbalanced frothing at the mouth rant, yeah not needed. I greatly enjoyed Mauler’s 5hr analysis series though of TLJ (which one might consider a rant if you’re of the view there’s nothing wrong with TLJ), much like one might enjoy RLM Plinkett analytical reviews of the PT. They’re cathartic in a way because they’re talking and delving into topics you are already in at least partial agreement on and can offer up a good laugh. You always take them with a grain of salt as well though. Mauler’s “unbridled rage” videos are definitely more on the rant side but good value for just blowing off some steam without having to say it all yourself and good for a laugh as well at the sheer outrage on display.

There is of course again a line when you watch this type of content for various reasons where on one side you’re enjoying some like minded discourse on everything you feel is wrong with the movie and then there’s taking it as gospel that it shows Rian and Kathleen are evil and deserve to die (that’s the extreme minority rearing its head again).

SilverWook said:
Grievances and issues are fine, when they are expressed in a mature intelligent way. There’s been too many people screaming bloody murder over a movie they didn’t like.

You’re not wrong, though the amount of people screaming bloody murder is not as many as their volume would lead you to believe.

SilverWook said:
And I’m speaking as an original old school since 1977 fan here. Even if I thought TLJ was the worst film since Beast of Yucca Flats, it would not affect my love of Star Wars very much, if at all.

And I was born in 1984 and grew up on countless viewings of the OT and even though I couldn’t attend the actual screenings I consider myself an original old school fan as the OUT will always be my one and only true Star Wars that I will always love and treasure my memories of growing up with.

When I say TLJ damaged the fandom and the franchise, I am not referring to it damaging my love of the OT or in general to what I still enjoy about Star Wars but it has killed any interest in Ep9 and has damaged my enjoyment of Star Wars in a broader sense. I refer to the actual fandom as a whole and the franchise’s continued success and status as one of the most iconic movie franchises of all time. TLJ, the drama, politics and issues surrounding it are seriously tarnishing that status in my view, to the point that it will only continue on as a success in mass marketing and the special magic that permeated it will have long since vanished, to be remembered only in it’s “golden age”. It will and has already become another victim of the Hollywood machine that is rebooting, restarting and remaking everything in sight ad nauseam. Despite people claiming TLJ went in new and different directions, it is really no more than a mish-mash of TESB and ROTJ and heavily relies on the OT characters to draw people in to watch these movies. TLJ tells us “forget the past, kill it if you have to” yet banks on the OT at every chance it can as a safety net because itself doesn’t trust in the story and new characters being able to make the money they want back from their investment.

Anyway, getting a bit side tracked here. Essentially I feel your gross generalisation of the fandom that was negatively affected by this movie to be pretty distasteful and I felt personally insulted by it since in it’s broad stroke it includes me and other people that are genuinely upset about many of the decisions made by RJ in TLJ. Not trying to kick up a stink or anything but I think it was a pretty thoughtless comment.