logo Sign In

Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 40

Author
Time

nl0428 said:

I believe that once we get the first trailer to Episode IX, everything crazy may be put to rest. We may get it this December, despite that the film wraps production in February.

I have a feeling that if some of the leaks are true, then it will only add fuel to those who are hoping JJ retcons The Last Jedi, even though I think it is the opposite. But hey, if we get stuff that both sides can interpret in satisfying ways, then I guess it works in a weird way, right?

But I’m optimistic that the new shows will be able to to tell stories pretty independent of the films, which will allow them to take us in new directions for the franchise.

Author
Time

SilverWook said:

Maybe because the myth of Lucas’ master plan persists, when he too was making it up as he went along?

Ah, but he didn’t make everything up. His master plan for the first trilogy got reworked a lot and things got added along the way, but the end game was a huge planetary battle and a space battle at the Death Star. He stole the Death Star from his original and moved it up and then reworked the middle and expanded the ending ending up in the same place and adding the redemption of the father to his mythic tale.

The plan for the PT was obvious. What he planned for the ST is a mystery. We know a self-exiled Luke and training a new apprentice, but not much else. But while Lucas made up the individual stories as he went, he always had a larger plan. Making Vader Luke’s father made him create the basics that led to the PT which he pretty much followed, though as we all know he made some interesting changes along the way. I’m hoping they kept that larger arc from Lucas’s treatment. What Kathleen Kennedy said is they started with that (they didn’t just throw it out) and the worked from it to expand and develop the story like they do with every movie (not all movies start as a completed script) and they moved beyond a lot of Lucas’s ideas. So while Rian wasn’t working to much of a plan, there was a plan. As he said, training was for the middle. That is what we got. I just don’t really trust Abrams to formulate a satisfying ending so I’m hoping whatever endgame Lucas had in his treatment is the basis for what we get at the end of IX. If they mix Lucas’s mythic end game with Abrams story telling, I think they might have a good final chapter. If Abrams is creating the ending out of his head, I don’t think it will be what fans hope.

Author
Time

DominicCobb said:

I still fail to see what the difference is, if one even exists. I don’t know how you could look at, say, the three Thor movies and say there’s one clear vision guiding them.

Feige has been guiding the MCU in phases. Phase I had all of the films introducing and leading into the Avengers. Phase II began introducing the Infinity Stones, and Phase III has been leading into the final confrontation that will retire most of the original heroes and introduce the next generation. Throughout each step Feige was the one deciding on which hero to focus on next and where the story of the franchise as whole is heading.

Feige has a vision for the Marvel franchise, sure, but so does Kennedy with SW.

And that vision would be…?

The Sequel Trilogy was conceived by George on his way out and Kennedy has gone about executing it. The standalone films were an answer to Iger’s demand of having a minimum of one film a year. Rogue One was a random pitch from John Knoll, Solo was done as a favor to Lawrence Kasdan for agreeing to help with the re-write of The Force Awakens.

Feige is intimately familiar with the Marvel franchise and is actively shaping its cinematic universe. Kennedy on the other hand hasn’t displayed much familiarity with Star Wars and the decisions thus far have all seemed strictly reactionary. Should Kennedy leave? No not at all but it would probably be a good idea to appoint a Narrative Lead to figure out where Star Wars can go from here.

Forum Moderator
Author
Time

Well I guess then the difference in approach is that the output and structure of the two franchises are different and call for different things (lots and lots of movies for the MCU, some movies and many other things for SW).

I don’t really see the need for a “narrative lead.”

Author
Time

DominicCobb said:

Well I guess then the difference in approach is that the output and structure of the two franchises are different and call for different things (lots and lots of movies for the MCU, some movies and many other things for SW).

I don’t really see the need for a “narrative lead.”

I don’t really see the need for Star Wars to have an intertwining cinematic universe, which often comes at the expense of making coherent movies.

Author
Time

If I had to predict which characters will die in Episode IX, I would say that it is almost guaranteed that Hux will meet his end in the film. I also think there is a solid chance that Poe could end up dying as well. There is a 50/50 chance that we may say farewell to Leia, but I do have a feeling that she will live.

The name’s Lawson. Noah Lawson.

Author
Time

Maybe we could start a betting pool? 😛

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time

SilverWook said:

Maybe we could start a betting pool? 😛

Maybe. I don’t know how you’d feel about that.

The name’s Lawson. Noah Lawson.

Author
Time

pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

Well I guess then the difference in approach is that the output and structure of the two franchises are different and call for different things (lots and lots of movies for the MCU, some movies and many other things for SW).

I don’t really see the need for a “narrative lead.”

I don’t really see the need for Star Wars to have an intertwining cinematic universe, which often comes at the expense of making coherent movies.

Yeah pretty much.

Author
Time

DominicCobb said:

I don’t really see the need for a “narrative lead.”

The only reason the ST has a chance of feeling like its narratively cohesive is that Abrams is returning. Had Trevorrow headed IX as was originally intended, it would have ended in disaster.

The canon is already a mess thanks to giving everyone free reign to take things wherever they want.

The GCW ends just a year after ROTJ thanks to Wendig, 30 years of potential were thrown out when Gray cemented that it was a solid period of peace and complacency. TFA is the very start of the new war and TLJ leaves no gap at all for anything in-between.

It would have been incredibly simple to work in room for expansion without affecting the narratives of either film but no one was there to guide it. It’s all a lopsided patchwork that will only get worse over time.

Forum Moderator
Author
Time

Tobar said:

The only reason the ST has a chance of feeling like its narratively cohesive is that Abrams is returning. Had Trevorrow headed IX as was originally intended, it would have ended in disaster.

I always felt that when Colin Trevorrow was announced to direct Episode IX, it was an abrupt decision, since Jurassic World had come out and was very successful. In an interview on Collider’s Jedi Council, SNL cast member, Bobby Moynihan said that Daisy Ridley asked Trevorrow what happens to Rey in IX. He took her to the back room, and she came out crying. The story may have changed since Trevorrow was on board, but I do think that bringing J.J. Abrams back was a smart choice. I loved what he did with The Force Awakens, but I also loved what Rian Johnson did with The Last Jedi.

To put it simply, Abrams helped create the world and new characters for the sequel trilogy. He and Lawrence Kasdan (as well as keeping some of Michael Arndt’s material he created before leaving, because he was credited in the final film) wrote the story for VII. When Rian Johnson took over, he helped write the story for VIII, yet still continuing some of the story arcs set up by Abrams and Kasdan. While the story went a different direction from what J.J. may have done, he still continued the important arcs from what J.J. and Kasdan set up. Luke was always going to be a hermit, refusing to come back into action (an old idea George Lucas had for his sequel trilogy), as well as the relationship between Kylo Ren and Rey blossoming into a potential romance. What J.J. and Chris Terrio are going to do with IX is bring the trilogy to a close by continuing where Rian left off, and ending the story arcs where Abrams began off with.

The best thing to do is to tell the best story moving forward in the Star Wars saga, not bring fan service to the big screen, such as old Luke Skywalker with a lightsaber taking down the First Order. This is something I wanted at one point during the two year gap in between the releases of The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, but I am happy that they did not do that, as it would be out of character for the story set up for Luke. Even Mark Hamill agreed with the decision by the end of making VIII. He disagreed at first, but soon realized that the writers knew better and loved the ending for his character.

I am very excited for Episode IX, and I cannot wait to see what happens between Rey and Kylo Ren for the end of the sequel trilogy!

The name’s Lawson. Noah Lawson.

Author
Time

Appreciate the positivity, Noah! I’m looking forward to it too!

Author
Time

RogueLeader said:

Appreciate the positivity, Noah! I’m looking forward to it too!

Thank you so much for your feedback, RogueLeader!

The name’s Lawson. Noah Lawson.

Author
Time

Tobar said:

DominicCobb said:

I don’t really see the need for a “narrative lead.”

The only reason the ST has a chance of feeling like its narratively cohesive is that Abrams is returning. Had Trevorrow headed IX as was originally intended, it would have ended in disaster.

Disaster because Trevorrow sucks, not because having another voice in the mix is inherently disastrous.

The canon is already a mess thanks to giving everyone free reign to take things wherever they want.

Well it depends on what kind of approach one prefers. Kennedy and the Story Group prefer letting creators have the freedom to tell their own stories in the best way they can without excessively worrying about and setting up other unwritten stories.

The GCW ends just a year after ROTJ thanks to Wendig, 30 years of potential were thrown out when Gray cemented that it was a solid period of peace and complacency. TFA is the very start of the new war and TLJ leaves no gap at all for anything in-between.

It would have been incredibly simple to work in room for expansion without affecting the narratives of either film but no one was there to guide it. It’s all a lopsided patchwork that will only get worse over time.

Your supposedly canon-ending complaints seem arbitrary to me and narrow-minded. You’re talking about one specific era amongst many, and an era in which we’ve already gotten a decent variety of content (Aftermath, Bloodline, Poe comic, Phasma stories, Battlefront II campaign, Resistance show, etc.), with much more surely on the way (including The Mandalorian).

Author
Time

Tobar said:

The canon is already a mess thanks to giving everyone free reign to take things wherever they want.

It’s true. Everyone does what they want, and nobody ever has creative differences.

Author
Time

Feige is intimately familiar with the Marvel franchise and is actively shaping its cinematic universe. Kennedy on the other hand hasn’t displayed much familiarity with Star Wars and the decisions thus far have all seemed strictly reactionary. Should Kennedy leave? No not at all but it would probably be a good idea to appoint a Narrative Lead to figure out where Star Wars can go from here.

That’s because Kennedy isn’t the creative lead. You know who is? The Story Group.

The only reason the ST has a chance of feeling like its narratively cohesive is that Abrams is returning. Had Trevorrow headed IX as was originally intended, it would have ended in disaster.

On one hand, Abrams directing IX will make VIII the awkward Johnson film sandwiched between two Abrams films. On the other Jurassic World was the first bad Jurassic Park film IMO, and I loved the original “trilogy”. In the end, I’m happier with Abrams at the helm, but it’s worth remembering his strength lies in setting up plots, not resolving them. I remember someone on this forum saying they’d get a “sadistic satisfaction” out of seeing Abrams resolve his own story. Man, I wish I’d saved that quote. But for what it’s worth, Abrams is also great at imitating the style of others, so there shouldn’t be too much issue belnding with VIII.

Disaster because Trevorrow sucks, not because having another voice in the mix is inherently disastrous.

What he said. ^

Author
Time

Anakin Starkiller said:

In the end, I’m happier with Abrams at the helm, but it’s worth remembering his strength lies in setting up plots, not resolving them. I remember someone on this forum saying they’d get a “sadistic satisfaction” out of seeing Abrams resolve his own story.

Oh shit. If history is any indicator, J.J. is going to kill the entire cast of characters and have them meet up again in some weird non-denominational purgatory.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Anakin Starkiller said:

But for what it’s worth, Abrams is also great at imitating the style of others, so there shouldn’t be too much issue belnding with VIII.

I don’t think that’s true at all (and I’m an Abrams fan), but nevertheless I don’t think it’ll be an issue as Rian didn’t stray too far from TFA’s style to begin with.

pleasehello said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

In the end, I’m happier with Abrams at the helm, but it’s worth remembering his strength lies in setting up plots, not resolving them. I remember someone on this forum saying they’d get a “sadistic satisfaction” out of seeing Abrams resolve his own story.

Oh shit. If history is any indicator, J.J. is going to kill the entire cast of characters and have them meet up again in some weird non-denominational purgatory.

I’ll never understand why this myth persists.

Author
Time

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

In the end, I’m happier with Abrams at the helm, but it’s worth remembering his strength lies in setting up plots, not resolving them. I remember someone on this forum saying they’d get a “sadistic satisfaction” out of seeing Abrams resolve his own story.

Oh shit. If history is any indicator, J.J. is going to kill the entire cast of characters and have them meet up again in some weird non-denominational purgatory.

I’ll never understand why this myth persists.

What do you mean? That’s what happened at the end of Lost (though saying he “killed the characters” isn’t super accurate, as they all died when they died, even if it was decades after their time on the island of natural causes) - the flash sideways stuff in the final season is literally a non-denominational purgatory where all the characters eventually meet after their deaths before they all move on to heaven or whatever after the last of them dies on Earth.

Not saying that anything like that will happen in IX, but I’m not sure why you think that’s a myth about Lost. Unless you’re talking about the myth that the island was purgatory and they were all dead the whole time, but that’s not what Starkiller was saying.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

ChainsawAsh said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

In the end, I’m happier with Abrams at the helm, but it’s worth remembering his strength lies in setting up plots, not resolving them. I remember someone on this forum saying they’d get a “sadistic satisfaction” out of seeing Abrams resolve his own story.

Oh shit. If history is any indicator, J.J. is going to kill the entire cast of characters and have them meet up again in some weird non-denominational purgatory.

I’ll never understand why this myth persists.

What do you mean? That’s what happened at the end of Lost (though saying he “killed the characters” isn’t super accurate, as they all died when they died, even if it was decades after their time on the island of natural causes) - the flash sideways stuff in the final season is literally a non-denominational purgatory where all the characters eventually meet after their deaths before they all move on to heaven or whatever after the last of them dies on Earth.

Not saying that anything like that will happen in IX, but I’m not sure why you think that’s a myth about Lost. Unless you’re talking about the myth that the island was purgatory and they were all dead the whole time, but that’s not what Starkiller was saying.

That’s not the myth I was talking about (he described it more or less accurately, as you mention). The myth is that JJ Abrams had anything to do with it.

Author
Time

Thanks for spoiling Lost for me, which I was never going to watch anyway. 😛

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time

J.J. only did the pilot of Lost iirc.

Author
Time

DominicCobb said:

ChainsawAsh said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

In the end, I’m happier with Abrams at the helm, but it’s worth remembering his strength lies in setting up plots, not resolving them. I remember someone on this forum saying they’d get a “sadistic satisfaction” out of seeing Abrams resolve his own story.

Oh shit. If history is any indicator, J.J. is going to kill the entire cast of characters and have them meet up again in some weird non-denominational purgatory.

I’ll never understand why this myth persists.

What do you mean? That’s what happened at the end of Lost (though saying he “killed the characters” isn’t super accurate, as they all died when they died, even if it was decades after their time on the island of natural causes) - the flash sideways stuff in the final season is literally a non-denominational purgatory where all the characters eventually meet after their deaths before they all move on to heaven or whatever after the last of them dies on Earth.

Not saying that anything like that will happen in IX, but I’m not sure why you think that’s a myth about Lost. Unless you’re talking about the myth that the island was purgatory and they were all dead the whole time, but that’s not what Starkiller was saying.

That’s not the myth I was talking about (he described it more or less accurately, as you mention). The myth is that JJ Abrams had anything to do with it.

Ah, okay, my mistake. You’re definitely right about that.

Author
Time

The only movies where Abrams was involved that I truly enjoyed are Armageddon (he was a scriptwriter IIRC) and Cloverfield (producer), apart from that there isn’t a single movie directed by him that I like (Mission: Impossible 3 is my least favourite of the MI movies).

I honestly don’t understand why J.J. Abrams is so highly regarded, and when Anakin Starkiller said he’s great at imitating others’ style, well yeah, he sure does imitate, but his imitations do nothing for me.

Maybe I’m immune to the J.J. Kool-aid, and while everyone else is celebrating his helming Episode IX, the very announcement of his return killed all my interest in the movie, and I will only watch it to see how it ends, which in all likelihood will be a total fuck-up but everyone will rejoice and praise Abrams for “fixing” the ST. sigh

Author
Time

ChainsawAsh said:

DominicCobb said:

ChainsawAsh said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

In the end, I’m happier with Abrams at the helm, but it’s worth remembering his strength lies in setting up plots, not resolving them. I remember someone on this forum saying they’d get a “sadistic satisfaction” out of seeing Abrams resolve his own story.

Oh shit. If history is any indicator, J.J. is going to kill the entire cast of characters and have them meet up again in some weird non-denominational purgatory.

I’ll never understand why this myth persists.

What do you mean? That’s what happened at the end of Lost (though saying he “killed the characters” isn’t super accurate, as they all died when they died, even if it was decades after their time on the island of natural causes) - the flash sideways stuff in the final season is literally a non-denominational purgatory where all the characters eventually meet after their deaths before they all move on to heaven or whatever after the last of them dies on Earth.

Not saying that anything like that will happen in IX, but I’m not sure why you think that’s a myth about Lost. Unless you’re talking about the myth that the island was purgatory and they were all dead the whole time, but that’s not what Starkiller was saying.

That’s not the myth I was talking about (he described it more or less accurately, as you mention). The myth is that JJ Abrams had anything to do with it.

Ah, okay, my mistake. You’re definitely right about that.

I had no idea he only wrote the pilot. Anyway it was just a dumb joke.