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your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance. — Page 9

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Setting aside my love for TLJ, I must say the movie contains what is IMO the most problematic line of dialogue in the ST, which is: “Selling weapons to the First Order”. Is Rose really telling us that the New Republic is run by a bunch of paupers who can’t afford shit? Even then I called bullshit.

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To me, Luke’s death was less of a physical one. Not just simply death, but the moment Luke achieved nirvana. But to reach “Force nirvana”, you literally become one with Force, meaning no physical body necessary.

FMA, if you’re referring to why the Resistance is so shabby compared to the First Order, then my guess is that it is because the Resistance isn’t really being funded by the Republic as a whole. Maybe a few sympathetic senators are helping support them, but financing a private militia is $$$ and I like to imagine that by the beginning TFA, that Leia is already broke funding it herself. All she has now is 3PO and the clout her name holds, which by the end of TLJ doesn’t seem to be much.

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Yeah but it’s made clear the FO took over the Galaxy in just one week or so. Couldn’t a galaxy spanning government come up with a decent military budget for defence and protection? Did all systems meekly surrender without a fight? Or the NR is completely devoid of any armed forces? IDK, just can’t wrap my head around that.

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RogueLeader said:

To me, Luke’s death was less of a physical one. Not just simply death, but the moment Luke achieved nirvana. But to reach “Force nirvana”, you literally become one with Force, meaning no physical body necessary.

Exactly. In that moment, he literally shed his mortal coil.

fmalover said:

Yeah but it’s made clear the FO took over the Galaxy in just one week or so. Couldn’t a galaxy spanning government come up with a decent military budget for defence and protection? Did all systems meekly surrender without a fight? Or the NR is completely devoid of any armed forces? IDK, just can’t wrap my head around that.

Expanded material suggests that many in the New Republic were helping to fund the FO to begin with. Also the NR seems to be demilitarized to some extent. Not to mention the FO didn’t take over the galaxy “in a week,” they were in the process of doing so… “The First Order will control all the major systems within weeks.”

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The New Republic did have a Fleet, but a large chunk of their fleet were stationed at Hosnian Prime. I’m sure some New Republic forces exist throughout the galaxy but they’re all spread thin. So by destroying Hosnian Prime, it would be like if the attack at Pearl Harbor had destroyed the carriers and oil facilities like the Japanese had hoped for. It would have been a major setback for the United States.

At this time, I think the New Republic relied on the defense forces of their member worlds to be called to action in a situation where a large defense force was necessary. I believe the NR’s primary defense fleet was large enough to handle any large scale conflicts itself, but I imagine in this time they only dealt with intervening skirmishes involving their members, or fighting off pirates/criminals.

The New Republic demilitarizing to me wasn’t about having no military, but downsizing their military to pre-Clone War levels. Basically to the scale that the Republic Navy was at probably for most of its history. Many people didn’t want a large national military so the central government wouldn’t have too much power over its member worlds, leading to an abuse of power that led to the Empire in the first place.

I also like to think that between ROTJ and TFA, the New Republic did deal with some Imperial holdouts, but their threat to the Republic was small enough for their Fleet, and units like Rogue/Wraith Squadron from the EU, to take care of. While not really necessary, this would also help explain why they never consider an Imperial resurgence a major threat.

But we do know that First Order sympathizers within the Senate did help downplay the threat of the First Order enough to make the majority of the Republic feel like a large-scale intervention wouldn’t be necessary. And it did seem the First Order kept hidden enough to help with that narrative.

But once the First Order destroyed the Defense Fleet and the Senate in one move, it was basically cutting off the head of the Republic. The member worlds no longer had any leadership or unity. Maybe under some common leadership they could’ve held back the First Order, but without it they’re all probably bunkering down in an attempt to defend their own worlds. It’s a very precise divide and conquer-like strategy, a strategy which smaller armies can use to defeat forces larger than itself.

So my guess for the First Order’s strategy (which they’ve had 30 years to perfect) could be to occupy planets at important hyperspace junctures, thereby having control of trade and the galactic economy within a month or two.

Which in my mind is why Leia’s survival in TLJ was so important. She might be the last figure that can truly unite what is left of any resistance in the galaxy together, which we will hopefully see in Episode IX.

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RogueLeader said:

The New Republic did have a Fleet, but a large chunk of their fleet were stationed at Hosnian Prime. I’m sure some New Republic forces exist throughout the galaxy but they’re all spread thin. So by destroying Hosnian Prime, it would be like if the attack at Pearl Harbor had destroyed the carriers and oil facilities like the Japanese had hoped for. It would have been a major setback for the United States.

At this time, I think the New Republic relied on the defense forces of their member worlds to be called to action in a situation where a large defense force was necessary. I believe the NR’s primary defense fleet was large enough to handle any large scale conflicts itself, but I imagine in this time they only dealt with intervening skirmishes involving their members, or fighting off pirates/criminals.

The New Republic demilitarizing to me wasn’t about having no military, but downsizing their military to pre-Clone War levels. Basically to the scale that the Republic Navy was at probably for most of its history. Many people didn’t want a large national military so the central government wouldn’t have too much power over its member worlds, leading to an abuse of power that led to the Empire in the first place.

I also like to think that between ROTJ and TFA, the New Republic did deal with some Imperial holdouts, but their threat to the Republic was small enough for their Fleet, and units like Rogue/Wraith Squadron from the EU, to take care of. While not really necessary, this would also help explain why they never consider an Imperial resurgence a major threat.

But we do know that First Order sympathizers within the Senate did help downplay the threat of the First Order enough to make the majority of the Republic feel like a large-scale intervention wouldn’t be necessary. And it did seem the First Order kept hidden enough to help with that narrative.

But once the First Order destroyed the Defense Fleet and the Senate in one move, it was basically cutting off the head of the Republic. The member worlds no longer had any leadership or unity. Maybe under some common leadership they could’ve held back the First Order, but without it they’re all probably bunkering down in an attempt to defend their own worlds. It’s a very precise divide and conquer-like strategy, a strategy which smaller armies can use to defeat forces larger than itself.

So my guess for the First Order’s strategy (which they’ve had 30 years to perfect) could be to occupy planets at important hyperspace junctures, thereby having control of trade and the galactic economy within a month or two.

Which in my mind is why Leia’s survival in TLJ was so important. She might be the last figure that can truly unite what is left of any resistance in the galaxy together, which we will hopefully see in Episode IX.

I like your explanation RogueLeader, but I’m left with one final question. Where the hell does the FO get all its money from? Because doing business with them is a surefire way to get Canto Bight levels of wealth. Imperial credits shouldn’t be an accepted form of currency in the NR. Do the Unknown Regions have an abundance of precious minerals that are highly coveted throughout the Galaxy?

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I think you’re on the right track. Rose mentions that her home world was stripped of its natural resources, and she implies those resources were either used to rebuild their navy or used to pay for it. There does seem to be an implication that the First Order was able to strip planets of their resources throughout the Unknown Regions unopposed once they learned how to navigate it (with the help of Snoke apparently).

Also, as Dom mentioned, there were those in the Republic that also supported a First Order-coup. Either they believed in the cause or financially benefited from the Old Imperial status quo, so they also were possibly helping fund the First Order.

I believe the novel Bloodline also mentions that the First Order was being funneled money from crime syndicates through various shadow corporations as well, possibly because they believe the First Order would allow them to operate with more freedom than the Republic does, much like the Empire did before it.

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fmalover said:

Yeah but it’s made clear the FO took over the Galaxy in just one week or so. Couldn’t a galaxy spanning government come up with a decent military budget for defence and protection? Did all systems meekly surrender without a fight? Or the NR is completely devoid of any armed forces? IDK, just can’t wrap my head around that.

These are questions without answers. It’s clear that neither J.J. nor Rian cared about expounding on any of this stuff when they wrote VII and VIII.

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I do agree the political context is something that could’ve been handled a little better in these films. Honestly, all I think it could have taken were rewritten opening crawls and maybe an extra scene or two. I think the prequel backlash made them feel like “politics=bad”, but having it could make the stakes a little clearer. I think Hal’s Restructured edit helps with TFA, and Nev and I have gone back and forth on opening crawls for quite some time on his edit threads, so I do think future edits could help make these things a little clearer.

But I do think the political situation in the build up to The Force Awakens is super interesting, and is fertile ground for fun storytelling in future content that deals with espionage and political backstabbing. I understand that they have probably been avoiding this area until the trilogy is over as to avoid contradicting it as it is being written/produced, but now that it is drawing to a close, I am hoping we get more of it, the new Resistance show being a good example. We get a taste of this in Bloodline, but I would love a series of novels in the vein of the EU Rogue/Wraith Squadron books that cover more of this time period. I think the whole gap between ROTJ and TFA is full of storytelling possibilities. I think it is just a matter of time until we get more content set during it, The Mandalorian being another such example.

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The First Order isn’t The Empire. They remind me more of a terrorist organization that forms from what remains of an overthrown government.

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fmalover said:

Setting aside my love for TLJ, I must say the movie contains what is IMO the most problematic line of dialogue in the ST, which is: “Selling weapons to the First Order”. Is Rose really telling us that the New Republic is run by a bunch of paupers who can’t afford shit? Even then I called bullshit.

Okay, so the New Republic didn’t want a strong military, because they didn’t want the temptation of becoming like the Old Empire, and they didn’t want to intimidate their member worlds.
But then, by doing so, they were able to be destroyed by the First Order.

Rose is upset about lifeforms selling weapons to the First Order, and getting rich, and that’s a real world reference to weapons manufacturers, to make the story relevant to younger audiences.

It seems like a no-win situation.
Strong military=you become corrupt fascists.
Weaken your military=you become vulnerable to terrorists/future fascists.

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Answering that question will make or break 9 for me. Jedi ended so happily, and yet it wasn’t the end of the saga. They need to find a way to properly end this never ending star war.

Maul- A Star Wars Story