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Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 38

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what gets me is that people assume that the story of the sequels has been in the hands of just one person for each movie …Abrams for TFA and Johnson for TLJ . There is a Lucasfilm story group made up of multiple people who have input into the movies as well as the ancillary material . It’s not all on one person or director .

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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 (Edited)

It’s hard to rage on social media about multiple people with no instant name recognition with most fans. 😉

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Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

It’s hard to rage on social media about multiple people with no instant name recognition with most fans. 😉

Or they could, you know, rage at the Story Group.

Regardless, the real reason people don’t see as one vision is because TLJ seems to go against everything TFA values.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

Regardless, the real reason people don’t see as one vision is because TLJ seems to go against everything TFA values.

It’s upsetting to me that Episode IX is already being hated on before it’s released. I loved both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, but there is no disconnect between them. The Last Jedi expanded so much on the Star Wars legacy and mythology, something that will help Star Wars still keep going on for another forty years without being worn out. There are many people out there who were disappointed with Episode VIII simply because the film didn’t play out as the movie they wrote in their head leading up to its release. The extreme reactions are ridiculous, unbearable, and disgusting for their behavior for not liking the movie.

The name’s Lawson. Noah Lawson.

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nl0428 said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

Regardless, the real reason people don’t see as one vision is because TLJ seems to go against everything TFA values.

It’s upsetting to me that Episode IX is already being hated on before it’s released. I loved both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, but there is no disconnect between them. The Last Jedi expanded so much on the Star Wars legacy and mythology, something that will help Star Wars still keep going on for another forty years without being worn out. There are many people out there who were disappointed with Episode VIII simply because the film didn’t play out as the movie they wrote in their head leading up to its release. The extreme reactions are ridiculous, unbearable, and disgusting for their behavior for not liking the movie.

Yeah… after spending quite a few years on this site, I only know one truth - Star Wars fans are absolute lunatics.

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nl0428 said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

Regardless, the real reason people don’t see as one vision is because TLJ seems to go against everything TFA values.

It’s upsetting to me that Episode IX is already being hated on before it’s released. I loved both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, but there is no disconnect between them. The Last Jedi expanded so much on the Star Wars legacy and mythology, something that will help Star Wars still keep going on for another forty years without being worn out. There are many people out there who were disappointed with Episode VIII simply because the film didn’t play out as the movie they wrote in their head leading up to its release. The extreme reactions are ridiculous, unbearable, and disgusting for their behavior for not liking the movie.

I have much less interest in seeing IX than I did in VIII. The main reason for this, and one of my biggest gripes with The Last Jedi is that it didn’t really leave any loose ends. That’s kind of an issue if you want to generate anticipation for your next film.

I really liked the story and characters in TLJ (except for Finn’s story, which I think was a little half-baked). In that respect I agree that there really isn’t a disconnect between TLJ and the preceding film. But I think there is definitely a tonal dissonance between the two films.

J.J. understands how to write dialogue and especially comedy that is more consistent with the OT, which borrows heavily from old Hollywood and especially the screwball comedies of that era. By comparison, many of The Last Jedi’s dialogue and comedic moments are less quick-fire screwball banter and more rooted in recent popular culture (crank calls, your mama jokes, literally brushing-it-off) and stuck out to me immediately. Now that we’re going back to J.J. for IX, it kind of ensures that VIII will be the kind of strange black sheep of the Sequel Trilogy.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

SilverWook said:

It’s hard to rage on social media about multiple people with no instant name recognition with most fans. 😉

Or they could, you know, rage at the Story Group.

Regardless, the real reason people don’t see as one vision is because TLJ seems to go against everything TFA values.

Too abstract as an object of blind hatred.

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Where were you in '77?

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pleasehello said:

I have much less interest in seeing IX than I did in VIII. The main reason for this, and one of my biggest gripes with The Last Jedi is that it didn’t really leave any loose ends. That’s kind of an issue if you want to generate anticipation for your next film.

I am really for excited for Episode IX. In fact, it’s been reported by Collider that we may be seeing footage of Episode IX this December!

The name’s Lawson. Noah Lawson.

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nl0428 said:

pleasehello said:

I have much less interest in seeing IX than I did in VIII. The main reason for this, and one of my biggest gripes with The Last Jedi is that it didn’t really leave any loose ends. That’s kind of an issue if you want to generate anticipation for your next film.

I am really for excited for Episode IX. In fact, it’s been reported by Collider that we may be seeing footage of Episode IX this December!

Yeah, I’m sure any forthcoming trailers will ramp up my excitement. More than anything else, the one thing I want to see in Ep. IX is ghost Luke haunting Kylo Ren. After that, I’m good.

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pleasehello said:

Yeah, I’m sure any forthcoming trailers will ramp up my excitement. More than anything else, the one thing I want to see in Ep. IX is ghost Luke haunting Kylo Ren. After that, I’m good.

I think “haunting” is the wrong term to use. I still think having the force ghosts of Luke and Anakin (reprised by Hayden Christensen) coming before Ben would be cool to see. I really think it can work well.

The name’s Lawson. Noah Lawson.

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You guys put far too much weight into the Story Group. They’re mainly there as advisors. The two that do the most heavy lifting are Pablo and Leland and they just ensure that whatever a project’s director/writer is doing is consistent with the established lore. And there they’re fairly powerless. See: the Starkiller’s carnage being seen from Takodana and Holdo’s last stand. There is no grand road map, they’re just doing things project to project.

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Tobar said:

You guys put far too much weight into the Story Group. They’re mainly there as advisors. The two that do the most heavy lifting are Pablo and Leland and they just ensure that whatever a project’s director/writer is doing is consistent with the established lore. And there they’re fairly powerless. See: the Starkiller’s carnage being seen from Takodana and Holdo’s last stand. There is no grand road map, they’re just doing things project to project.

I believe the heavy lifting depends on what kind of content it is (movie vs tv vs book, etc.). Also they’re not just advisors, they’re development executives.

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Tobar said:

You guys put far too much weight into the Story Group. They’re mainly there as advisors. The two that do the most heavy lifting are Pablo and Leland and they just ensure that whatever a project’s director/writer is doing is consistent with the established lore. And there they’re fairly powerless. See: the Starkiller’s carnage being seen from Takodana and Holdo’s last stand. There is no grand road map, they’re just doing things project to project.

I think this is correct. They’re mostly there just put their stamp of approval on what the writer/director comes up with. I think it’s pretty clear there isn’t a road map for these films and there’s no way that J.J. “Mystery Box” Abrams had a plan for how the loose ends he left in TFA would be tied up.

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DominicCobb said:

Tobar said:

You guys put far too much weight into the Story Group. They’re mainly there as advisors. The two that do the most heavy lifting are Pablo and Leland and they just ensure that whatever a project’s director/writer is doing is consistent with the established lore. And there they’re fairly powerless. See: the Starkiller’s carnage being seen from Takodana and Holdo’s last stand. There is no grand road map, they’re just doing things project to project.

They’re development executives.

Fancy word for advisers 😉

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pleasehello said:

DominicCobb said:

Tobar said:

You guys put far too much weight into the Story Group. They’re mainly there as advisors. The two that do the most heavy lifting are Pablo and Leland and they just ensure that whatever a project’s director/writer is doing is consistent with the established lore. And there they’re fairly powerless. See: the Starkiller’s carnage being seen from Takodana and Holdo’s last stand. There is no grand road map, they’re just doing things project to project.

They’re development executives.

Fancy word for advisers 😉

No doubt for JJ and Rian and what not they’re more just like advisors, but otherwise not at all. Development is not “advising.”

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 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

No doubt for JJ and Rian and what not they’re more just like advisors

Which is what is relevant to the current discussion.

Jedit: as an addendum:

Kiri Hart Head of the Lucasfilm Story Group

It’s not about having control of it, I think it’s more about facilitating what storytellers want to do. And I think that our opportunity, that is really unique, is to create a lot of stories that connect to each other in unexpected and interesting ways. And there are a lot of really great creators who have come aboard to work with us and we’re all about facilitating the things that they want to do and the stories that they want to tell.

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nl0428 said:

lpd said:

Just don’t know to be honest, its been shown since star wars 77 and especially over the last two movies that its really being changed and evolving on the move. ie:It really didn’t have an arc. Each movie is being written on the fly. I really think that’s why that scene was thrown on the end of Solo.
But what do I know?

I wouldn’t necessarily say that the sequel trilogy is being changed in between films. I believe that J.J. set up that Rey’s parents were nobody, and that is something that Rian Johnson carried over into The Last Jedi. I also think that J.J. intentionally also set up the romantic relationship being developed between Rey and Kylo Ren.

I can see this. Abrams originally was handling the first film more like a series pilot - he was not expecting to come back and expected others to continue the story. So I can see where he and Kennedy would have plotted the arc of the trilogy. And we know some things were held over from George’s version. I think the course of IX was set during the production of TFA, though the details of the story were up to whoever did it. I hope at some point we get to find out what plot points were set at what time. It would amuse me to find out that some of the plot points in TLJ that people are so pissed about came from Lucas or Abrams.

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yotsuya said:

I can see this. Abrams originally was handling the first film more like a series pilot - he was not expecting to come back and expected others to continue the story. So I can see where he and Kennedy would have plotted the arc of the trilogy. And we know some things were held over from George’s version. I think the course of IX was set during the production of TFA, though the details of the story were up to whoever did it. I hope at some point we get to find out what plot points were set at what time. It would amuse me to find out that some of the plot points in TLJ that people are so pissed about came from Lucas or Abrams.

It has been clearly stated by KK that she threw out Georges plans for the ST. Rj also confirmed that there were no plans at all for the ST moving forward after 7. Its all online. If needed, I can get links.

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DougieP said:

yotsuya said:

I can see this. Abrams originally was handling the first film more like a series pilot - he was not expecting to come back and expected others to continue the story. So I can see where he and Kennedy would have plotted the arc of the trilogy. And we know some things were held over from George’s version. I think the course of IX was set during the production of TFA, though the details of the story were up to whoever did it. I hope at some point we get to find out what plot points were set at what time. It would amuse me to find out that some of the plot points in TLJ that people are so pissed about came from Lucas or Abrams.

It has been clearly stated by KK that she threw out Georges plans for the ST. Rj also confirmed that there were no plans at all for the ST moving forward after 7. Its all online. If needed, I can get links.

Fake news. They weren’t thrown out completely. They ditched some of the most ridiculous stuff (like doubling down on midichlorians with his version of the Whills), yeah, but the broad strokes regarding Luke are the same, just pushed back to VIII. I’m willing to bet more stuff will be revealed in the coming years about his outlines that will either show A) they were still more or less adhered to the way the Luke stuff was more or less adhered to, or B) they were so vague and sketchy beyond the stupid Whills/midichlorians stuff that they really couldn’t be used.

Specific quotes from the article I linked:

basically, what we got from the Rey/Luke storyline in The Last Jedi was initially supposed to be the bones for George Lucas’ Episode 7

30 years after the fall of the Empire, Luke had gone to a dark place and secluded himself in a Jedi temple on a new planet.

the initial plan for Star Wars: Episode 7 was that Luke, over the course of that movie, would rediscover his vitality and train this new Jedi.

The new Jedi was:

a new disciple named Kira (who was later renamed Rey)

And as for why Luke’s stuff was pushed back to VIII from VII:

Everyone realized that Luke Skywalker would better serve the needs of the story as the person that everyone seeks but does not find until the final scene of The Force Awakens. This allowed Han Solo more time as the mentor of the story

And if you really wanted Lucas’ full plans for the sequel trilogy, well, from George himself…

[The next three Star Wars films] were going to get into a microbiotic world. But there’s this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force. … Back in the day, I used to say ultimately what this means is we are just cars, vehicles, for the Whills to travel around in … we’re vessels for them. And the conduit is the midi-chlorians. The midi-chlorians are the ones that communicate with the Whills. The Whills, in a general sense, they are the Force.

I don’t think that sounds any better than anything in TFA or TLJ. Do you? Really?

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ChainsawAsh said:

DougieP said:

yotsuya said:

I can see this. Abrams originally was handling the first film more like a series pilot - he was not expecting to come back and expected others to continue the story. So I can see where he and Kennedy would have plotted the arc of the trilogy. And we know some things were held over from George’s version. I think the course of IX was set during the production of TFA, though the details of the story were up to whoever did it. I hope at some point we get to find out what plot points were set at what time. It would amuse me to find out that some of the plot points in TLJ that people are so pissed about came from Lucas or Abrams.

It has been clearly stated by KK that she threw out Georges plans for the ST. Rj also confirmed that there were no plans at all for the ST moving forward after 7. Its all online. If needed, I can get links.

Fake news. They weren’t thrown out completely. They ditched some of the most ridiculous stuff (like doubling down on midichlorians with his version of the Whills), yeah, but the broad strokes regarding Luke are the same, just pushed back to VIII. I’m willing to bet more stuff will be revealed in the coming years about his outlines that will either show A) they were still more or less adhered to the way the Luke stuff was more or less adhered to, or B) they were so vague and sketchy beyond the stupid Whills/midichlorians stuff that they really couldn’t be used.

Specific quotes from the article I linked:

basically, what we got from the Rey/Luke storyline in The Last Jedi was initially supposed to be the bones for George Lucas’ Episode 7

30 years after the fall of the Empire, Luke had gone to a dark place and secluded himself in a Jedi temple on a new planet.

the initial plan for Star Wars: Episode 7 was that Luke, over the course of that movie, would rediscover his vitality and train this new Jedi.

The new Jedi was:

a new disciple named Kira (who was later renamed Rey)

And as for why Luke’s stuff was pushed back to VIII from VII:

Everyone realized that Luke Skywalker would better serve the needs of the story as the person that everyone seeks but does not find until the final scene of The Force Awakens. This allowed Han Solo more time as the mentor of the story

And if you really wanted Lucas’ full plans for the sequel trilogy, well, from George himself…

[The next three Star Wars films] were going to get into a microbiotic world. But there’s this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force. … Back in the day, I used to say ultimately what this means is we are just cars, vehicles, for the Whills to travel around in … we’re vessels for them. And the conduit is the midi-chlorians. The midi-chlorians are the ones that communicate with the Whills. The Whills, in a general sense, they are the Force.

I don’t think that sounds any better than anything in TFA or TLJ. Do you? Really?

Yes, I agree that you are right in a few of your statements but definitely not all. I can easily argue against most of your arguments but don’t want to derail the convo from the subject of the topic (9 spoiler discussion). If you want to elsewhere, then sure, I enjoy debate. Whether it be in PM or public. But just to latch onto your last question, no, I dont believe that what has happened is better.

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nl0428 said:

lpd said:

Just don’t know to be honest, its been shown since star wars 77 and especially over the last two movies that its really being changed and evolving on the move. ie:It really didn’t have an arc. Each movie is being written on the fly. I really think that’s why that scene was thrown on the end of Solo.
But what do I know?

I wouldn’t necessarily say that the sequel trilogy is being changed in between films. I believe that J.J. set up that Rey’s parents were nobody, and that is something that Rian Johnson carried over into The Last Jedi. I also think that J.J. intentionally also set up the romantic relationship being developed between Rey and Kylo Ren.

Let’s take a look at what Rian himself has had to say on the matter:

Deadline

So what are the train tracks when you set out to write? Presumably, you can’t kill off half the cast, or have them all form a jazz ensemble and leave this life of adventuring behind.

RJ: Maybe not the jazz thing [laughs]. But you can kill off whoever you want. I don’t know. I’ll give the caveat that I was coming into it wanting to make something that felt like Star Wars. It’s not like I was approaching it like, “Hey, wouldn’t it be funny if we painted the Millennium Falcon purple?” That having been said, we do go places in this movie that felt like we were taking some risks. We were following the characters in the way that seemed natural to me, but it led us to some surprising places.

Again, there was never a feeling of us being policed back into a lane. If anything, the danger was in me self-policing out of fear of, Am I allowed to do this? When I would check in with the story group at Lucasfilm, really what I found is that they would be the ones encouraging me to go for it. They would say, “Oh that’s really weird; oh my god, you have to try that.” If anything, they were protecting me against self-editing or holding back out of fear.

Is there an overarching plot for where the trilogy goes? You obviously have The Force Awakens as a jumping off point, but is there a place you need to get to, in order to set up J.J. Abrams’ Episode IX?

RJ: Not really. That’s what’s been really cool about the storytelling process. There is definitely the idea that we know it is a three-movie arc. We know the first film is an introduction, then the middle act is training, meaning challenging the characters. The third is where they all come together and you have to resolve everything.

But I was truly able to write this script without bases to tag, and without a big outline on the wall. That meant I could react to what I felt from The Force Awakens, and what I wanted to see. I could make this movie personal. I could also just take these characters where it felt right and most interesting to take them. I think part of the reason the movie feels like it goes to some unexpected places with the characters is that we had that freedom. If it had all just been planned out and written down beforehand, it might have felt a little more calculated, I suppose.

Empire

I went through all the possibilities of who her parents could be. I made a list, with the upsides and downsides. There were two things about this option that made it feel right to me. Firstly. I like the idea that we’re breaking out from the notion that the force is this genetic thing that you have to be tied to somebody to have. It’s the ‘anybody can be president’ idea.

Bustle

I don’t think he’s lying in that moment — I think he is like telling what he saw and I think that Rey seems like she believes it in that moment. So for me, I wrote it as an honest revelation and as an honest kind of reaction to it, as opposed to a move in a game of chess. Now as we know in these movies, you know the whole idea of a certain point of view comes into play and as you know I’m not involved in writing the next movie. JJ [Abrams] and Chris [Terrio] are writing it so, I want to make it clear I’m not sure how it’s going to get resolved.

I highly recommend anyone interested to give the full Empire Podcast interview a listen. He really gets into the weeds about his decisions writing the film.

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