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Did George actually have an "original vision?" — Page 3

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The prophecy is a bunch of fucking bullshit.

Everything about LucASS' prequels are.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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Originally posted by: Jedikev
The prophecy is a bunch of fucking bullshit.

Everything about LucASS' prequels are.


thank you for your well though out and knowledgable post kev. would you like a medal for being hte first person in history to portray such veiws. would you like a nobel prize for being so smart in your analysis of the PT. seriously if you were to go to any university literature prof and asked them if the STORY of the PT was bad they would tell you otherwise, the script may have been badly written but the STORY of the pt was very well done.
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thank u shimraa.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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your welcome kev, you caught me in a bad mood
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
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Originally posted by: Jedikev
The prophecy is a bunch of fucking bullshit.

Everything about LucASS' prequels are.


thank you for your well though out and knowledgable post kev. would you like a medal for being hte first person in history to portray such veiws. would you like a nobel prize for being so smart in your analysis of the PT. seriously if you were to go to any university literature prof and asked them if the STORY of the PT was bad they would tell you otherwise, the script may have been badly written but the STORY of the pt was very well done.


This is not bashing the prequels, but I think if you asked a literature professor about the story of the prequel trilogy, unless he was already a Star Wars fan, he would most likely laugh at a person considering it "literature."

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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shim, you need to calm down dude. this is Star Wars, a movie trilogy, it's not the biggest most important thing in your life. Ihope that you and everyone else on this board isn't so diluded that they put Star Wars before their family and friends.
"Who's scruffy-lookin'?" - Han Solo
"I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself." -sybeman
"You know, putting animals in the microwave is not a good idea. I had to learn that one the hard way." -seanwookie
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its my option that he was scolding, it could have been morning cereal for all i care.
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what completely different way?
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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Originally posted by: Jedikev
.... a bunch of fucking bullshit.
Everything about LucASS' prequels are.

I completely agree. They radically cheapened the credibility of the first films. The Star Wars saga will never be considered great film making now. It will instead be long remembered for how vulgar the mass marketing tie-ins became. It may have been different if he left the two sets of films separate. People could choose one storyline or the other. Instead, he made everything in the prequels somehow related to the first trilogy - no matter how preposterous or small the story became. Even more obscene is how he altered the first set of films 25 years later by castrating and altering characters, and adding footage from the new films. All in the name of marketing tie-ins directed at children.

Sad.
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Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back will always be the best. period
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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man i dont see why i bother voicing my opinion on a topic like this because i've done it many times before...

the truth of the matter is... the prequels ruined any consistancy that the OT had!!
BOTTOM LINE!!

i don't care if you dont agree because it is a proven fact that everything that came out of the prequels has made lucas go back and alter his OT...
once again if that wasnt true then he would have wrote the story around the OT and not the OT around the PT.

so fact is that Lucas never had an original vision about 6 movies...
no way in hell!!
you can say what you will but he didn't.

did he have an original vision about the OT itself.
in a way yes. but as others have pointed out, luke and vader father and son and luke and leia brother and sister prolly were added in there during the process of filming the trilogy.
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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It will instead be long remembered for how vulgar the mass marketing tie-ins became.


how vulgar they "Became?"

if you can look back at the marketing and merchandising that took place starting in the summer of 77 and continuing well into the 90's even BEFORE the Special Editions were announced, and say the mass-marketing tie-ins weren't just as "vulgar" then you're looking back with rose colored glasses. chances are you didn't think they were "vulgar" because mass-marketing merchandising didn't insult your intelligence at the time--because you were like, 8 years old and wanted to buy the stuff.

these criticisms have been lobbed at Star Wars ever since Empire Strikes Back. C'mon. Hell, "The Art of Star Wars" has an editorial comic detailing the merchandising madness of a "Darth Vader Mall Visit." complete with Darth Vader ordering a Tab soda between autograph signings.

The prequels don't do ANYTHING to the first films unless you LET THEM. The Special Editions? Yeah, those do something to the first films--because they're directly ALTERING the first films. But the prequels are their own movies, and are marketed and merchandised in THE EXACT SAME MANNER AND VOLUME as the originals were. Maybe even less so. Last I checked the prequels didn't spawn a Star Wars cookbook. But to claim that these movies didn't get over-merchandised until 1999 is ridiculousness.

And in the same manner that you can ignore remakes of classic movies, you can ignore the prequels. It's real easy. The argument that the prequels taint the originals has always been silly, to me. Especially since everyone pretty much agrees the first two movies are the best two. They wouldn't be able to say that if they REALLY believed the prequels had tainted everything else.

You're telling me TPM, AOTC and ROTS somehow made Star Wars and Empire LESS GOOD?

Don't buy it.
The Best Show You've Never Heard
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I have to say you're right, with one exception, The Bizzle...

Anybody remember the K-Mart commercial in 1999 promoting Phantom Menace merchandise? It had this little boy going off to school for the first time, comparing his journey to Anakin leaving his mother. I nearly had a fit when I saw it! They were selling the idea that Anakin was a hero that kids should look up to and try to emulate! So say what you will about the '70s and '80s marketing. Yes, it was just as silly as anything else, but at least they didn't try to convince kids to be like a mass-murdering villain in order to sell a few backpacks with Jake Lloyd's face on them.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: HotRod
Shim........You bastard!

That avatar is making me all confused. At first glance I thought it was me posting!!


hey i am sad too
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sometimes i wonder why i try to create a discussion in the starwars section.
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I can't say he never had an original vision, because, obviously, the first plan he had was technically his "original vision". Whatever it was got lost in the translation due to success, greed, and ...... him just making up prequels as he went along and trying that whole fan service routine (like the droids, Chewbacca, and Baby Fett).


Let's face it.

Star Wars was *never* the "great story" people make it out to be. Yeah, it's entertaining and I enjoy watching it once a decade, but when compared to the whole science fiction genre, Star Wars is pretty mediocre. Just off the top of my head, here are some sci-fi stories I consider superior to Star Wars:

- Gattaca - Deep Space Nine - Babylon 5

And if you include books:

- The Forever War - Mote in God's Eye - Hyperion - Foundation - Caves of Steel - Man Who Sold the Moon



In the grand scheme of things, Star Wars is just a middling piece of literature from a not-so-talented author. Naturally if you expect more, you're going to be disappointed.

troy
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i think the bizzle has it mostly spot-on above, especially about the prequels ruining the OT--espeically with these fan preservation releases, a fan can literally pretend everything after 1996 never happened in Star Wars.

however, I do think one significant distinction is that the prequels HAD to have been made with at least one eye toward the marketing and tie-ins, and I don't know that ESB was. ANH definitely wasn't cause who knew if toys and shit would even sell? but ROTJ was the beginning--that interview bit from lucas (in one of the many books) where he reveals he created the ewoks so that he could have a toy ewok to give his daughter. THAT is merchandise-driven filmmaking. as are the prequels, IMHO.
Pop Geek (my blog)
Entertainment Geekly
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Originally posted by: The Bizzle
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It will instead be long remembered for how vulgar the mass marketing tie-ins became.

how vulgar they "Became?"

I was speaking of the whole Star Wars timeline - 1977 to 2005. I should have been more clear on that.

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chances are... you were like, 8 years old and wanted to buy the stuff.

No, I was 16 and had no interest in it.

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The prequels don't do ANYTHING to the first films unless you LET THEM.

Yes, I KNOW that. That's WHY I didn't SEE any OF them after TPM.


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the prequels are their own movies

That's not the way Lucas sees it. He's doing everything he can to make sure that future generations(as well as the current fans) can't seperate the two either.

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But to claim that these movies didn't get over-merchandised until 1999 is ridiculousness.

I didn't make that claim - you assumed I did.

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you can ignore the prequels. It's real easy.

Yes it is, and I have.

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You're telling me TPM, AOTC and ROTS somehow made Star Wars and Empire LESS GOOD?
Don't buy it.

When viewed as a single entity (as Lucas would like people to), yes - the last 4 films weaken the story and taint the history of the actual films because most people won't single ANH or ESB out - and Lucas is working as fast and as hard as he can to see to it that they can't.
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Originally posted by: electrictroy

Just off the top of my head, here are some sci-fi stories I consider superior to Star Wars:

- Gattaca - .....

An awesome film and a great story as well. I would add Solaris to my list of great science fiction stories also.


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Star Wars....from a not-so-talented author. ...if you expect more, you're going to be disappointed.

Which is exactly why he shouldn't have given us any more after 1977. He should have quit while he was ahead. When Star Wars was all there was. Personally, I didn't need to know any more about the characters or the story. I had my imagination for that.
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Originally posted by: DarthAstuart
I do think one significant distinction is that the prequels HAD to have been made with at least one eye toward the marketing and tie-ins, and I don't know that ESB was. ANH definitely wasn't cause who knew if toys and shit would even sell?

Fox didn't think the film was going to do too well, so instead of giving Lucas a cut of the box office take, they gave him the rights to the marketing tie-ins as a token gesture. Little did they know the Pandora's Box they were opening by turning product tie-ins over to a marketing genius.

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ROTJ was the beginning--that interview bit from lucas (in one of the many books) where he reveals he created the ewoks so that he could have a toy ewok to give his daughter.

He really is a sad figure.

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I have to agree with Anchorhead.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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It's kind of funny how the people running Fox at that point seemed to have totally forgotten the merchandising moolah the Planet of the Apes movies brought in only a couple years before. It's a safe bet George didn't.
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Where were you in '77?

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
I have to say you're right, with one exception, The Bizzle...

Anybody remember the K-Mart commercial in 1999 promoting Phantom Menace merchandise? It had this little boy going off to school for the first time, comparing his journey to Anakin leaving his mother. I nearly had a fit when I saw it! They were selling the idea that Anakin was a hero that kids should look up to and try to emulate! So say what you will about the '70s and '80s marketing. Yes, it was just as silly as anything else, but at least they didn't try to convince kids to be like a mass-murdering villain in order to sell a few backpacks with Jake Lloyd's face on them.


Don't you think you are overreacting? I mean, it was just an ad, I and HARDLY belive someone would do anything even slightly similar to Anakin Skywalker FICTICIOUS story, I mean, killing sand people and younglings so he can join the dark side?
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering