First off, when trying to find the original look, there are some big clues and some sources that we have that are pretty good. First off is the technicolor print. While some of the shots look horrible in it, the overall look preserves the 1977 colors. Second, we have the home media versions, the 1997 special edition (which is mostly chemical color correction of a faded print for ANH and is the same negative) and its home media versions. Then we have the 2003 scan (as bad as it is). Plus we have an LLP 35 mm print (that means low fade and accurate colors.
Now, for the home media version of the GOUT, we have a few different sources. We have the US/UK sources for early releases. the US 16 mm film and the widescreen bookleg (preserved by Moth3r) appear to be from the original version of the film (4 things were changed from the early prints to the general release print and international prints made later in the year). The official VHS and LD versions that came out after that all have the Episode IV opening and the revised end credits, but the rest of the film appears to be also from the 1977 first release prints. All the foreign language and the Definitive Edition/Faces/2006 GOUT version all are from the same edit. We know that the Definitive Edition/Faces/2006 GOUT was done from a new interpositive struck in the mid 80’s. Then we have the SE and its VHS and LD release. First off, the colors of all these are very consistent. I have focused only on the widescreen versions so I can’t say how the pan and scan versions looked. Not really interested. The widescreen versions have very little color difference between them. That means there was not a lot of tweaking by the telecine operators to the colors on a scene by scene basis.
I took the GOUT and made one assumption - the orange tint of the interpositive had not been completely removed. That was pretty common in transfers. I used the accurate scans of the technicolor print (every 24th frame provided by Mike Verta and corrected for the green tint) and corrected the GOUT. I used the same corrections to TESB and ROTJ and found my corrections to ROTJ pretty much matched the colors of the grindhouse 35 mm scan of ROTJ. So the color pallet I’m trying to match has strong source corroboration. Plus I have researched and found as many set photos as I could and referenced the behind the scenes images from the Making of Star Wars.
DrDre has used more scientific means to come to virtually the same colors. He has found a way to use the dark, unseen parts of the print to balance the colors and correct fading. He and I have come to nearly the same conclusion by different means. Poita does this sort of thing for a living and has his own methods. So for you to tell all three of us that we are off and your are right when you obviously aren’t using a calibrated monitor and are using scanned stills from printed sources (and from what you have shared some of them are pretty bad), that doesn’t aid your cause.
Skin tones need to be that prefect balance between red and yellow. The X-wing flight suits are bright orange. The Imperial uniforms are green gray. R2 is cobalt to indigo (with some shots in ANH of a more purple colored version). These aren’t my opinions. They are documented. I have photos that show the colors of the original costumes. You are slanting your correction way too far to the yellow. These latest shots show very crushed blacks. The Blu-ray is not that far off.
Here is the collected versions of that shot of Luke you claim is so far off.
Top left is my BR color correction. Top right is my GOUT correction
second row is the BR and the GOUT
third row is 97 SE LD and the DE LD
fourth row is 4k77 DNR and the JSC LD
fifth row is the TN1 (1.5 I think) and the SWE LD
sixth row is Puggo Grande and Moth3r bootlegThis shows how consistent the home video releases are for this shot. It shows how close the BR is. The 4k77 is from a Technicolor print so it shows the greenish tint. TN1 is from several faded prints and is pretty close to the home video colors. The bottom two are of the most interest. They are the oldest known copies. Other shots in ANH are not nearly so close between versions. So your hypothesis that this shot suffers badly from color shift is not born out. The home video versions are either faded prints or from interpositives. TN1 was from a faded print (very red as I recall). The 97 SE LD shows very blue instead of green. The blu-ray is lacking in yellow rather than just too much red. Each of the RGB/CYM colors fades differently on film. So it is no surprise that they didn’t get the balance right during the restoration. But your idea that the colors have shifted doesn’t match the various prints/scans we have.
The JSC Laserdisc Looks by far the Best in fact I would say TN1 tried to go for that sort of also but the JSC looks about right to me. The Blu Ray is Horrid Pink man. Red is in the correct Shade of Red. Look at his Helmet stripe in the JSC.
The Gain and Levels are all wrong on the Blu-ray.
Drop Gain for Blu-Ray by by 33% increase High level by 50% and Shadow by 13%. You will have to alter contrast also. That seemed to bring it sort of back to a normal looking old transfer at least.
I am now waiting for this is a telecine and it’s not what it’s meant to look like. The JSC is better than anything else there and outshines the lot. Anything lesser that the Peak that the JSC reached we are heading downhill after this high point in so much as that particular shot never got better or was maintained even it just slid in to the pink mess it is now. And it’s also artificially bright.
So… make the bluray darker? Crush the blacks even more? Blow out the whites? Um… no. Yes, some scenes might benefit from being brighter, but contrast and brightness are one of the worst aspects of the bluray for consistency. I found the colors can be corrected in a pretty narrow range. But some shots need to be darker, some lighter, and some need to have the brights turned way up while others need it left alone. In this shot you don’t gain anything from your description. And you applaud the JSC while ignoring the reds that come from its interpositive source. The one I think is closest is the Moth3r bootleg. The bluray does not need what you think it does and doing what you suggest creates a horrible image. I’m assuming your description of gain, high and shadow is what you did to all the images you posted that look so dark and terrible. That is what the copy of a copy of a copy of Gone With the Wind looked like before they restored it. Again it comes down to a good calibrated monitor. You definitely need one.
I like working to be honest, but I work a lot of hours. I obviously don’t have the same amount of time you have.
I liked Laserschwets special edition trailer scan. There was something good about it.
no I did not do that to all the images. The thing you fail to understand is that every image I posted in the last set are Special effects or animation shots apart from the last image. The last image was to show you what I was bringing it closer to.
The shots with animation and special effects stink of problems from the process they went through. Is it wrong to look at them and make a rough estimate and then you come in here and start slagging off a rough estimate.
You would do well to look at other films say like Bullitt to see what a film should look like because you seem to have too much emotional involvement with Star Wars and you don’t understand what I am even doing and you can’t even take somone having a rough guess and trying to figure out how the special effects have altered the image.
The way you are going on you are trying to make it sound like I am msking outlandish statements about the special effects and how they have altered the image. Jusg take a look at any one of the shots that have blue / purple all over them.
Uou are really starting to get on my nerves because you don’t understand what I am looking at. If you don’t understand still now after telling you 3 times forget about it.