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Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo — Page 846

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Almost all of the seats up for election are filled by Democrats.

The Person in Question

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The next election will be the opposite situation for them.

The Person in Question

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I don’t think Republicans will gain seats by the way.

The Person in Question

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I know that the governor position here will likely turn from a Republican to Democrat.

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There’s a 100% chance that every election in my area goes to a Republican. There’s no point in wasting my time voting.

The Person in Question

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chyron8472 said:

Jay said:

All I know is that activism is slowly replacing reason on the left

While that may be true, activism has already replaced reason on the right. Both sides demonizing each other and glorifying themselves, as though either side has a monopoly on reason, to the detriment of reason itself.

Consider that Rush and Hannity cater exclusively to the right and have done so for a long time; and how many on the right are quick to defame Obama or Hillary, but are extremely hesitant, or flat out refuse, to oppose Trump’s views or actions (except in secret) now that he’s the president.

To be clear, and I’ve mentioned this before, one should not infer that I approve of or don’t see actions on the right that I’m currently criticizing on the left. I’ve seen this in a lot of political discourse, and not just here. It’s almost like some kind of reverse whataboutism, where if you criticize one side for something, people point out that you’re not criticizing the opposite side at the same time, which means you must condone the same actions on the opposite side. It’s bizarre.

That said, to argue against your point, the number of people on the right who show up for protests and marches are dwarfed by left. Trump inspires lefties to go nuts and march in the millions. The right largely just stays home and stockpiles guns 😉

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Jay said:

That said, to argue against your point, the number of people on the right who show up for protests and marches are dwarfed by left. Trump inspires lefties to go nuts and march in the millions. The right largely just stays home and stockpiles guns 😉

Did you forget the other rallies Trump inspires? The left rallies may be larger…

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Handman said:

Jay said:

That said, to argue against your point, the number of people on the right who show up for protests and marches are dwarfed by left. Trump inspires lefties to go nuts and march in the millions. The right largely just stays home and stockpiles guns 😉

Did you forget the other rallies Trump inspires? The left rallies may be larger…

It’s interesting that rallies on the right make you think of white nationalists. Do you immediately associate rallies on the left with Antifa? BLM?

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Jay said:

Handman said:

Jay said:

That said, to argue against your point, the number of people on the right who show up for protests and marches are dwarfed by left. Trump inspires lefties to go nuts and march in the millions. The right largely just stays home and stockpiles guns 😉

Did you forget the other rallies Trump inspires? The left rallies may be larger…

It’s interesting that rallies on the right make you think of white nationalists. Do you immediately associate rallies on the left with Antifa? BLM?

Anti-fascists and Black Lives Matter are not the equivalent of white nationalists. Interesting that you make that connection. I’d say that Antifa represents the most extreme of the left as white nationalists represent the extreme of the right, but I’d rather be on the side of the most extreme anti-fascists than the least extreme white nationalists.

The Person in Question

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 (Edited)

Jay said:

That said, to argue against your point, the number of people on the right who show up for protests and marches are dwarfed by left. Trump inspires lefties to go nuts and march in the millions. The right largely just stays home and stockpiles guns 😉

What the hell are you talking about? Don’t you remember the Tea Party? What about the pro-life march every year? Of course they’re protesting less now, their side is in power.

And how the fuck is it nuts to march?

The Person in Question

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Jay said:

Handman said:

Jay said:

That said, to argue against your point, the number of people on the right who show up for protests and marches are dwarfed by left. Trump inspires lefties to go nuts and march in the millions. The right largely just stays home and stockpiles guns 😉

Did you forget the other rallies Trump inspires? The left rallies may be larger…

It’s interesting that rallies on the right make you think of white nationalists. Do you immediately associate rallies on the left with Antifa? BLM?

I’m not conflating white nationalists with the right in its entirety, but after I posted that I had a feeling it’d be interpreted that way. Sorry about the confusion there. They sure as hell ain’t lefties though, and Trump’s failure to condemn the white nationalists has done nothing to deter them. In fact, they feel like the president supports them.

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moviefreakedmind said:

Jay said:

Handman said:

Jay said:

That said, to argue against your point, the number of people on the right who show up for protests and marches are dwarfed by left. Trump inspires lefties to go nuts and march in the millions. The right largely just stays home and stockpiles guns 😉

Did you forget the other rallies Trump inspires? The left rallies may be larger…

It’s interesting that rallies on the right make you think of white nationalists. Do you immediately associate rallies on the left with Antifa? BLM?

Anti-fascists and Black Lives Matter are not the equivalent of white nationalists. Interesting that you make that connection.

Antifa is a violent organization packed with “good” fascists who think they’re saving the country from “bad” fascists. Just as nuts as anybody on the far right.

I shouldn’t have lumped BLM with them.

moviefreakedmind said:

Jay said:

That said, to argue against your point, the number of people on the right who show up for protests and marches are dwarfed by left. Trump inspires lefties to go nuts and march in the millions. The right largely just stays home and stockpiles guns 😉

What the hell are you talking about? Don’t you remember the Tea Party? What about the pro-life march every year? Of course they’re protesting less now, their side is in power.

And how the fuck is it nuts to march?

First of all, chill out. I didn’t say it was “nuts to march”. It was an expression.

Conservative protesters typically don’t turn out in the same numbers as liberal protesters, even at their own marches.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_protests_in_the_United_States_by_size

Do any of those look like conservative causes?

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Handman said:

Jay said:

Handman said:

Jay said:

That said, to argue against your point, the number of people on the right who show up for protests and marches are dwarfed by left. Trump inspires lefties to go nuts and march in the millions. The right largely just stays home and stockpiles guns 😉

Did you forget the other rallies Trump inspires? The left rallies may be larger…

It’s interesting that rallies on the right make you think of white nationalists. Do you immediately associate rallies on the left with Antifa? BLM?

I’m not conflating white nationalists with the right in its entirety, but after I posted that I had a feeling it’d be interpreted that way. Sorry about the confusion there. They sure as hell ain’t lefties though, and Trump’s failure to condemn the white nationalists has done nothing to deter them. In fact, they feel like the president supports them.

Agreed. I think he was right to condemn violence “on many sides”, but it would’ve been pretty easy to tack on “…but obviously I don’t support white nationalists and Nazis”.

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Jay said:

chyron8472 said:

Jay said:

All I know is that activism is slowly replacing reason on the left

While that may be true, activism has already replaced reason on the right. Both sides demonizing each other and glorifying themselves, as though either side has a monopoly on reason, to the detriment of reason itself.

Consider that Rush and Hannity cater exclusively to the right and have done so for a long time; and how many on the right are quick to defame Obama or Hillary, but are extremely hesitant, or flat out refuse, to oppose Trump’s views or actions (except in secret) now that he’s the president.

To be clear, and I’ve mentioned this before, one should not infer that I approve of or don’t see actions on the right that I’m currently criticizing on the left. I’ve seen this in a lot of political discourse, and not just here. It’s almost like some kind of reverse whataboutism, where if you criticize one side for something, people point out that you’re not criticizing the opposite side at the same time, which means you must condone the same actions on the opposite side. It’s bizarre.

Speaking for myself, I’m not a leftist nor a liberal. I’m a moderate devout-Christian Democrat from Oklahoma who is increasingly disenfranchised with the whole political scene in general. To be sure, my intellectual beliefs line up a lot with those on the left side of the aisle, but my faith purportedly not as much.

And that’s a big beef I have with either side. The left often belittles faith in God, and Christianity in particular, as archaic superstitious nonsense; and the right uses (pretend?) “faith” as a political tool to garner votes. Though I find the latter much, MUCH more irritating than the former, since they bizarrely cite faith while doing things wholly contrary to what their faith teaches them were they actually familiar with it (which amounts to them being Pharisees).

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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chyron8472 said:

Jay said:

chyron8472 said:

Jay said:

All I know is that activism is slowly replacing reason on the left

While that may be true, activism has already replaced reason on the right. Both sides demonizing each other and glorifying themselves, as though either side has a monopoly on reason, to the detriment of reason itself.

Consider that Rush and Hannity cater exclusively to the right and have done so for a long time; and how many on the right are quick to defame Obama or Hillary, but are extremely hesitant, or flat out refuse, to oppose Trump’s views or actions (except in secret) now that he’s the president.

To be clear, and I’ve mentioned this before, one should not infer that I approve of or don’t see actions on the right that I’m currently criticizing on the left. I’ve seen this in a lot of political discourse, and not just here. It’s almost like some kind of reverse whataboutism, where if you criticize one side for something, people point out that you’re not criticizing the opposite side at the same time, which means you must condone the same actions on the opposite side. It’s bizarre.

Speaking for myself, I’m not a leftist nor a liberal. I’m a moderate devout-Christian Democrat from Oklahoma who is increasingly disenfranchised with the whole political scene in general. To be sure, my intellectual beliefs line up a lot with those on the left side of the aisle, but my faith purportedly not as much.

And that’s a big beef I have with either side. The left often belittles faith in God, and Christianity in particular, as archaic superstitious nonsense; and the right uses (pretend?) “faith” as a political tool to garner votes. Though I find the latter much, MUCH more irritating than the former, since they bizarrely cite faith while doing things wholly contrary to what their faith teaches them were they actually familiar with it (which amounts to them being Pharisees).

Yeah. I’m pretty much lining up with this here.

With the slight sway in that I’m probably more right than left. I mean my religion’s at war with my heart even on the best days. So I give a nod to keeping a bit right on the social side? But then when it comes to fiscal policy I guess I’m more of a bit left there. I mean I don’t believe in wide open capitalism. I think stores are getting way the hell too big and guys with deep pockets are buying too many votes.

That said? I also think our county’s got a problem with emotion winning instead of reason. I mean you see it in the news. You see it in the universities. You see it just about everywhere really.

So that’s where I’ve gotten to be a bit of a Jordan Peterson watcher. I mean that guy’s videos are sometimes pretty good. I connect with the way he lays things out most of the time. I mean I’m hardly a disciple? But that guy has a way of talking that’s usually a class act. At least in the ones I’ve watched anyway. I mean sometimes he comes across a bit angry or maybe stubborn in places? But usually he’ll admit when he’s wrong in an argument. So that scores points with me.

K. Let’s have this ride.

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Trident said:

So that’s where I’ve gotten to be a bit of a Jordan Peterson watcher. I mean that guy’s videos are sometimes pretty good. I connect with the way he lays things out most of the time. I mean I’m hardly a disciple? But that guy has a way of talking that’s usually a class act. At least in the ones I’ve watched anyway. I mean sometimes he comes across a bit angry or maybe stubborn in places? But usually he’ll admit when he’s wrong in an argument. So that scores points with me.

I can’t get past that Cathy Newman interview where she kept saying “So what you’re saying is [not at all what he just said].” Peterson might even be crazy, but to strawman his words in such a comically farcical way makes it hard for me to take opposition to him seriously.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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 (Edited)

Jay said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Jay said:

Handman said:

Jay said:

That said, to argue against your point, the number of people on the right who show up for protests and marches are dwarfed by left. Trump inspires lefties to go nuts and march in the millions. The right largely just stays home and stockpiles guns 😉

Did you forget the other rallies Trump inspires? The left rallies may be larger…

It’s interesting that rallies on the right make you think of white nationalists. Do you immediately associate rallies on the left with Antifa? BLM?

Anti-fascists and Black Lives Matter are not the equivalent of white nationalists. Interesting that you make that connection.

Antifa is a violent organization packed with “good” fascists who think they’re saving the country from “bad” fascists. Just as nuts as anybody on the far right.

Uh, they’re not fascists. They’re anarchists and communists. There’s a clear political difference. I don’t support Antifa, but I’ve made clear that I am in favor of some types of political violence. Not all violence is the same. I think that we need to remove all judges and representatives that are bought and paid for by corporations. If we can do that peacefully, then that’s great, but I’m not opposed to people doing it forcefully.

I shouldn’t have lumped BLM with them.

Of course you shouldn’t have, but I find it interesting that you did.

moviefreakedmind said:

Jay said:

That said, to argue against your point, the number of people on the right who show up for protests and marches are dwarfed by left. Trump inspires lefties to go nuts and march in the millions. The right largely just stays home and stockpiles guns 😉

What the hell are you talking about? Don’t you remember the Tea Party? What about the pro-life march every year? Of course they’re protesting less now, their side is in power.

And how the fuck is it nuts to march?

First of all, chill out. I didn’t say it was “nuts to march”. It was an expression.

You said they go nuts and march.

Conservative protesters typically don’t turn out in the same numbers as liberal protesters, even at their own marches.

Why does that matter? People that want change tend to protest more. Go figure. Protest is often a good thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_protests_in_the_United_States_by_size

Do any of those look like conservative causes?

No, but to pretend that protest (especially crazy protest) is unique to the left is ridiculous.

The Person in Question

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chyron8472 said:

Trident said:

So that’s where I’ve gotten to be a bit of a Jordan Peterson watcher. I mean that guy’s videos are sometimes pretty good. I connect with the way he lays things out most of the time. I mean I’m hardly a disciple? But that guy has a way of talking that’s usually a class act. At least in the ones I’ve watched anyway. I mean sometimes he comes across a bit angry or maybe stubborn in places? But usually he’ll admit when he’s wrong in an argument. So that scores points with me.

I can’t get past that Cathy Newman interview where she kept saying “So what you’re saying is [not at all what he just said].” Peterson might even be crazy, but to strawman his words in such a comically farcical way makes it hard for me to take opposition to him seriously.

So because one person that opposes him is full of shit . . . What? I could find you examples of people lying about Trump, that doesn’t mean opposition to him isn’t genuine.

The Person in Question

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chyron8472 said:

Trident said:

So that’s where I’ve gotten to be a bit of a Jordan Peterson watcher. I mean that guy’s videos are sometimes pretty good. I connect with the way he lays things out most of the time. I mean I’m hardly a disciple? But that guy has a way of talking that’s usually a class act. At least in the ones I’ve watched anyway. I mean sometimes he comes across a bit angry or maybe stubborn in places? But usually he’ll admit when he’s wrong in an argument. So that scores points with me.

I can’t get past that Cathy Newman interview where she kept saying “So what you’re saying is [not at all what he just said].” Peterson might even be crazy, but to strawman his words in such a comically farcical way makes it hard for me to take opposition to him seriously.

Yeah I watched that one too. And felt the exact same way. Don’t sum up what a guy just said in totally different words. Just ask him to clarify.

No problem

K. Let’s have this ride.

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Trident said:

chyron8472 said:

Trident said:

So that’s where I’ve gotten to be a bit of a Jordan Peterson watcher. I mean that guy’s videos are sometimes pretty good. I connect with the way he lays things out most of the time. I mean I’m hardly a disciple? But that guy has a way of talking that’s usually a class act. At least in the ones I’ve watched anyway. I mean sometimes he comes across a bit angry or maybe stubborn in places? But usually he’ll admit when he’s wrong in an argument. So that scores points with me.

I can’t get past that Cathy Newman interview where she kept saying “So what you’re saying is [not at all what he just said].” Peterson might even be crazy, but to strawman his words in such a comically farcical way makes it hard for me to take opposition to him seriously.

Yeah I watched that one too. And felt the exact same way. Don’t sum up what a guy just said in totally different words. Just ask him to clarify.

Or just do what I do, which is attack his actual opinions.

The Person in Question

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moviefreakedmind said:

Trident said:

chyron8472 said:

Trident said:

So that’s where I’ve gotten to be a bit of a Jordan Peterson watcher. I mean that guy’s videos are sometimes pretty good. I connect with the way he lays things out most of the time. I mean I’m hardly a disciple? But that guy has a way of talking that’s usually a class act. At least in the ones I’ve watched anyway. I mean sometimes he comes across a bit angry or maybe stubborn in places? But usually he’ll admit when he’s wrong in an argument. So that scores points with me.

I can’t get past that Cathy Newman interview where she kept saying “So what you’re saying is [not at all what he just said].” Peterson might even be crazy, but to strawman his words in such a comically farcical way makes it hard for me to take opposition to him seriously.

Yeah I watched that one too. And felt the exact same way. Don’t sum up what a guy just said in totally different words. Just ask him to clarify.

Or just do what I do, which is attack his actual opinions.

I like talking them through instead of attacking. But I get what you mean. It’s better for sure.

K. Let’s have this ride.

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I prefer antagonistic discussion.

The Person in Question

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moviefreakedmind said:

Jay said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Jay said:

Handman said:

Jay said:

That said, to argue against your point, the number of people on the right who show up for protests and marches are dwarfed by left. Trump inspires lefties to go nuts and march in the millions. The right largely just stays home and stockpiles guns 😉

Did you forget the other rallies Trump inspires? The left rallies may be larger…

It’s interesting that rallies on the right make you think of white nationalists. Do you immediately associate rallies on the left with Antifa? BLM?

Anti-fascists and Black Lives Matter are not the equivalent of white nationalists. Interesting that you make that connection.

Antifa is a violent organization packed with “good” fascists who think they’re saving the country from “bad” fascists. Just as nuts as anybody on the far right.

Uh, they’re not fascists. They’re anarchists and communists. There’s a clear political difference. I don’t support Antifa, but I’ve made clear that I am in favor of some types of political violence. Not all violence is the same. I think that we need to remove all judges and representatives that are bought and paid for by corporations. If we can do that peacefully, then that’s great, but I’m not opposed to people doing it forcefully.

Antifa may label themselves as something they view as honorable and worthwhile—and obviously you sympathize with their views—but they’re lying extremists who want to suppress free speech and are willing to use violence to achieve their goals.

I shouldn’t have lumped BLM with them.

Of course you shouldn’t have, but I find it interesting that you did.

Just call me a racist and get it over with. I can see your eyelid twitching from here.

moviefreakedmind said:

Jay said:

That said, to argue against your point, the number of people on the right who show up for protests and marches are dwarfed by left. Trump inspires lefties to go nuts and march in the millions. The right largely just stays home and stockpiles guns 😉

What the hell are you talking about? Don’t you remember the Tea Party? What about the pro-life march every year? Of course they’re protesting less now, their side is in power.

And how the fuck is it nuts to march?

First of all, chill out. I didn’t say it was “nuts to march”. It was an expression.

You said they go nuts and march.

Yes, exactly. I didn’t say only nuts march. I also said conservatives stockpile guns, which is obviously hyperbole also.

I mean is it not obvious to anyone else I was exaggerating for effect? Was the little winky face not enough of an indicator?

Conservative protesters typically don’t turn out in the same numbers as liberal protesters, even at their own marches.

Why does that matter? People that want change tend to protest more. Go figure. Protest is often a good thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_protests_in_the_United_States_by_size

Do any of those look like conservative causes?

No, but to pretend that protest (especially crazy protest) is unique to the left is ridiculous.

Did I say protest was unique to the left? No. I said that conservatives don’t protest in the same numbers as liberals. I backed that up with data.

Yet another instance where you demonstrate that you read what you want into what I say rather than what’s actually written.

moviefreakedmind said:

I prefer antagonistic discussion.

No shit. I’d argue it’s mostly unproductive and largely designed to get a rise out of people rather than exchange ideas.

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Well, it looks like I was wrong, and happily so. Those weird new unsubstantiated anonymous assault accusations made no appearance at the hearing AFAICT. Glad they didn’t make the cut for Senate hearings, I suppose they’re strictly for the tabloids. On the plus side, I feel Kav and Ford both got to say what they needed to say, but on the downside, far too much of this boiled down to a he-said/she-said. Far too little attention was paid to witnesses (Judge wasn’t even asked to testify, which seemed very improper for something this serious IMO), very little attention was paid to other corroboration (Ford’s discussion of the assault with friends prior to the nomination was mentioned only briefly), and the failure to include other accusers did not seem adequately explained at all IMO.

Will it make a difference? Maybe. By not going full InfoWars*, they may have saved Murkoski’s vote. But I don’t think any of the others were in danger, so he’s in like… hmm, maybe Flynn’s not a good name in this context. They may have also caused themselves some midterm troubles, though. Kav didn’t step on any legal landmines AFAICT, but he sure didn’t endear himself to anyone new.

* Notwithstanding Kav’s attempt to pin the blame for this on the Clintons, who clearly must have used the same time machine for coaching Ford to talk about the assault prior to Kav’s nomination that they used to place birth notices in the Hawaii newspapers for Obama prior to his election.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)