Haha, it’s so funny you brought this conversation to another thread because I was just thinking of doing the same.
I do agree with you. I think the “space wizard” argument is used to remind people that this isn’t a hard science fiction story, I think the issue isn’t that people are trying to put science into a space fantasy, but that a fictional universe tends to follow it’s own set of rules for what is and isn’t possible, etc.
It’s like what Dom says. How it works isn’t as much of an issue, but how it fits into the plot is more of an issue for most people I think.
I think the purpose of these kind of rules is to create consistent obstructions to goals in your universe, which allows the stakes to maintain a certain value. It serves to make the plot engaging. It’s hard to explain, but when those “rules” lose consistency, it tends to lower the stakes of previous stories and makes it harder to suspend one’s disbelief. Otherwise soft magic or science answers to narrative problems can be used as a deus ex machina. And people really can suspend their disbelief in any story if it is set up properly, I believe. I think the debates between hard and soft magic systems as well as hard and soft science fiction would fit in well with this topic.
And this is where we get into the “science” debate of Star Wars. Now, I don’t think everything “science” related needs to be explained, like Leia surviving the vacuum of space for short period of time, for example. I don’t think Han and Leia reaching Bespin from Hoth is a major issue. If you can explain it in two words, like “backup hyperdrive”, I think it still works. Also, the time it takes to get there isn’t defined, which I think helps. It helps keep it in the “soft science fiction” range.
But, I do agree that Starkiller Base is my least favorite aspect of TFA. With Starkiller Base, while it is definitely soft science fiction, I personally think the problem is that it isn’t set up very well in the story, like you said.
The Death Star was made at the height of the Empire’s power. But Starkiller Base is extremely more powerful than the Death Star ever was. Not only that, but it is built by an Imperial remnant faction that has been in hiding, but somehow has the resources to build something exponentially stronger than the old Empire’s greatest superweapon. I know a lot of you on here have seen this discussion a dozen plus times already so I apologize for that, but I do think that Starkiller could have worked if it had just been set up better than it was, if a superweapon was so necessary.
I mean, they have had 30 years to develop the technology in secret, and they could have set up that criminal groups were funneling money to the First Order or something like that.
We sort of get a glimpse of that when Poe Dameron sees the First Order Star Destroyer for the first time. He looks around in awe, probably wondering where the hell they got the money to build it.
Regardless, I do think seeing the Hosnian destruction from the across the galaxy feels “plot convenient”. For all we know it is just a bigger Death Star laser, and now we’re scratching our heads as to why our heroes can see it from wherever they are. This is something I’m very glad that Restructured fixes. It’s a lot more effective in that edit, in my opinion.
I don’t know, I think for me it’s that it makes the Death Star feel a little less special. I think there is a decent argument that if the First Order is trying to emulate the Empire, then of course they would try build their own death star, and it is the perfect weapon to destroy the Republic, the Resistance, and Luke Skywalker without losing one soldier. There is also this nice irony that if Starkiller Base is Ilum, then the First Order has turned a sacred Jedi world into an evil machine, but that is not made obvious in the movie whatsoever.
From what I understand there was a superweapon even in George’s treatment for Episode 7, and I’m sure JJ thought it was necessary to make TFA feel familiar. I just think there were other alternatives to this. Just have Starkiller be a Base, and have a big First Order fleet destroy the New Republic capital. Or make Starkiller Base like the Star Forge, and it would help explain how the First Order got their resources. Maybe the First Order had an Eclipse-like ship with a superlaser, which might’ve been a bit more believable.
I know that even as late as March 2014 that they were still throwing around the idea of the Resistance having a large ship called the Warhammer, which would’ve been used to break through the First Order planetary shield. It would’ve been interesting if that had been a New Republic ship, maybe used to break through planetary shields of the few Imperial holdouts across the galaxy, or be a literal fleet-buster. Maybe the First Order could have sneaked on board and used it to destroy the New Republic capital that way.
Of course you can “what-if” endlessly, and while I still really enjoy TFA, Starkiller Base is one thing I just sort of tolerate for the sake of the story.