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- Empire Strikes Back
- Star Wars
- Solo
- The Force Awakens
- Return of the Jedi
- The Phantom Menace
- Revenge of the Sith
- Rogue One
- Attack of the Clones
- The Last Jedi
This. Exactly this!
The Person in Question
Ranking the Star Wars films — Page 159
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At this point I don’t think you should be surprised by anyone putting TLJ last (no pun intended).
Indeed, the latest poll for worst Star Wars movie on the TFN boards shows 30% of voters vote for TLJ. It is also the favourite Star Wars movie for 20% of the voters in the favourite Star Wars movie poll.
TFN. There’s an as-if random sampling scheme if I ever saw one, lol.
Well firstly, Jedi Council Forums is the largest Star Wars fan forum in existence. Secondly, the sample sizes in these polls is statistically large enough to support the thesis, that a significant proportion of fans will put TLJ either at the top or at the bottom of their rankings, confirming the by now well known and widely accepted view that TLJ is a divisive film, which was the point of my original post, made in response to Anakin Starkiller’s remark that people shouldn’t be surprised, that some of us put TLJ at the bottom of our rankings.
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“Empire” and “Jedi” had nothing parodistic; their absurd earnestness and the bombastic banality of their direction (by Irvin Kershner and Richard Marquand, respectively) are a perfect match for the oppressive, hectoring John Williams scores that accompanied them. If there was nostalgic, faux-naïve whimsy in Lucas’s inaugural installment of “Star Wars,” it was gone from “Empire” and “Jedi,” replaced by a hegemonic bellow for devotion and belief.” - Brody
LOL
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Worst to Best: Explained
- A New Hope
"I was utterly underwhelmed by “A New Hope,” impressed solely by the world-making of the script—the delivery of a ready-made but minor mythology—but neither moved nor fascinated nor at all delighted by the filmmaking. Rather, I was shocked—that the director of “American Graffiti” could have constrained himself to create such a turgid, stilted, flat, and textureless movie.” - Richard Brody, The New Yorker
The palette of Hollywood in the 70s, that had for the past few years been introducing avant-garde storytelling to a wider audience, now was doomed with the release of Lucas’ original space-fantasy. Being one of the first blockbusters, it became such a phenomenon that it laid the groundwork for all of the mind-numbing films that we associate with the term “blockbuster movies” for the next 40 years. Lucas, ironically, played a part of the banality of modern Hollywood, filled with dull stories, like seeing the same superhero plot with a new coat each year, and actions films that try to numb the mind with the overstimulation of the senses.
7 & 6. The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi
“Empire” and “Jedi” had nothing parodistic; their absurd earnestness and the bombastic banality of their direction (by Irvin Kershner and Richard Marquand, respectively) are a perfect match for the oppressive, hectoring John Williams scores that accompanied them. If there was nostalgic, faux-naïve whimsy in Lucas’s inaugural installment of “Star Wars,” it was gone from “Empire” and “Jedi,” replaced by a hegemonic bellow for devotion and belief.” - Brody
ESB can’t decide if it is a serious movie or a silly one. It is sort of a mess with no solid conclusion, making a film that can’t really stand on its own. I tend to agree with the thoughts here if you’d like to know more: http://www.simplysyndicated.com/why-empire-strikes-back-sucks-gundark-poodoo/
ROTJ, while repeating many of the same mistakes as the original Star Wars film, this is really where the idea of Vader as a sympathetic character is developed.
The only redeeming quality of these films are the elements of Darth Vader’s redemption the introduced to the saga, a twist that made the films grow beyond mere “adventure films”. They really have nothing else to offer beyond this, save for some of Yoda’s philosophical preaching.
5 & 4. Force Awakens and the Last Jedi
With The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, they’re both just okay. No strong feelings either way about them. They are not as imaginative as Lucas’ prequels, but there is considerable effort to address the legacy of a character like Vader. Even though that twist allowed for the beautiful tale Lucas created in his prequels, they did present a problem with the idea that only one family could really effect the destiny of this galaxy. But with the new character of Rey, we have a character who is clearly a nobody in Episode 7 and we get to see her come to accept that she has no destiny. But, it is a strong message that she has to make her own destiny, and Rey, just like anyone, can make a real difference. The story of Rey and Kylo Ren are the most interesting aspects of these new films, with Finn and Rose being my second favorites if they can conclude their arc in 8 appropriately in the next film. I’m sure IX will fit into the middle of my list as well, especially if they can devise a conclusion with Ben Solo returning to Leia that reflects Anakin leaving his own mother at the beginning of this saga.
- Revenge of the Sith
"The labyrinthine opening shot of “Revenge of the Sith”— of Anakin and Obi-Wan giving chase to Dooku through the space vehicles on the planet of Coruscant—is a mighty and audacious gauntlet-throw, the digital equivalent of the opening shot of Orson Welles’s “Touch of Evil.” It wheels and gyrates and zips and pivots with a vertiginous wonder that declares, from the beginning, that Lucas had big visual ideas and was about to realize them with a heroically inventive virtuosity. And the rest of the movie follows through on that self-dare.
If I had seen “Revenge of the Sith” in real time, in a theatre upon its release, in 2005, I think that, at the moment when Palpatine (Ian McDiarmid), sizzling in the blue lightning that Mace Windu (Samuel L. Jackson) reflects back at him, cries out to Anakin (Hayden Christensen), “Power! Unlimited Power!,” I would have leaped out of my seat yelling with excitement. The entire movie is filled with an absolute splendor of the pulp sublime, and that moment is its very apogee. Lucas reaches historic heights in the filming of action: the martial artistry of Anakin and Obi-Wan’s double duel versus Dooku, the gaping maw of outer space and of the airshaft into which the heroic duo drops, Obi-Wan’s light-sabre fight with the four-armed Grievous, and, above all, the apocalyptic inferno of the confrontation of Obi-Wan and Anakin (which, regrettably, cuts back to Yoda and Emperor, a much duller battle). I watched these sequences over and over—happily, with the sound off to get rid of the musical score—and was repeatedly and unflaggingly amazed by Lucas’s precise, dynamic, wildly imaginative direction.
The scripted politics of the conflicts have a grand imagination to match. What Lucas brings to the script of “Clones” and Sith” is a quasi- (or pseudo-) Shakespearean backroom dialectic of power-maneuvering. The dialogue is just heightened and sententious enough, just sufficiently rhetorical, to convey the grave moment of ideas in conflict and the grand mortal results of that dialectical clash—the making of a villain and the unmaking of a republic.” - Brody
Also, see Camille Puglia’s thoughts on ROTS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibkmh72_1pw
- The Phantom Menace
Phantom Menace evolved the franchise in a way that other franchises seem to fail at. Unique and imaginative, instead of giving us more of what “the fans” wanted, George decided to tell a story that grew beyond what the original Star Wars was meant to be. Instead of being a Flash Gordon-ripoff that tells an over-simplistic fairy tale, George set out to decontextualize this saga as a tragedy on the scales of Othello or Faust. He planted the seeds of a “Citizen Kane” in space. A young Anakin, bright-eyed and full of optimism, is taken away from his mother. The Jedi Order was nothing as fans had expected, instead, Lucas decided to portray them as a flawed order that practices non-attachment and have them represent a very unhealthy version of masculinity that inevitably leads Anakin to give in to his own fears and turn to evil.#1 Attack of the Clones
"This peculiar contradiction began to resolve itself with the pleasures of “Attack of the Clones.” There, Lucas’s force awakens. The movie’s rich-hued palette alone is a jolt from the start, and the movie’s action scenes have an alluring, entrancing kinetic vigor and texture. The speeder chase with the paid assassin, with its swoops and spins and drops; Obi-Wan’s fight with Jango Fett; and the serial duels with Count Dooku—all of these display balletic gracefulness and dazzling rapidity along with closely-textured compositions in depth, surprising pictorial imbalances, and angles that are as expressive as they are surprising. The colossal scale of the assembled clones toward the end of the film has an awe-inspiring power greater than anything in any of the four films that preceded it. My hypothesis is that digital technology caught up to Lucas’s imagination. Finally, by 2002, digital technology, which he had begun to use in “The Phantom Menace,” liberated him from the limits of optical effects and, by means of C.G.I., could create the fusion of live action and animation that was implicit in the project, and in his vision, from the start.” - Brody
This film is the epitome of what George Lucas always wanted, being able to tell a story that his completely his own, separated from Hollywood and with technology that was finally able to bring his wildest dreams to life. With it being the first major feature film completely shot on digital, it paved the way to the democratization of filmmaking, and now anyone can make a movie and find an audience online. Lucas was never able to successfully create his American Zoetrope he envisioned, a place for filmmakers to tell their stories away from Hollywood, but in a way, he succeeded through the breakthroughs that truly began with this film.
My nipples aren’t sensitive, but this post is almost enough to make them change their mind.
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FTFY
Worst to Best: Explained
#8 2001: A Space Odyssey
"I was utterly underwhelmed by “2001: A Space Odyssey” impressed solely by the world-making of the script—the delivery of a ready-made but minor mythology—but neither moved nor fascinated nor at all delighted by the filmmaking. Rather, I was shocked—that the director of “Dr Strangelove” could have constrained himself to create such a turgid, stilted, flat, and textureless movie.” -
The palette of Hollywood in the 60s, that had for the past few years been introducing avant-garde storytelling to a wider audience, now was doomed with the release of Kubrick’ original space-fantasy.
#7 & 6. Forrest Gump and Schindler’s List
“Gump” and “Schindler” had nothing parodistic; their absurd earnestness and the bombastic banality of their direction (by Robert Zemeckis and Steven Spielberg, respectively) are a perfect match for the oppressive, hectoring John Williams and Alan Silvestri scores that accompanied them.”
Gump can’t decide if it is a serious movie or a silly one. It is sort of a mess with no solid conclusion, making a film that can’t really stand on its own.
Schindler’s List, while repeating many of the same mistakes, this is really where the idea of Schindler as a sympathetic character is developed.
The only redeeming quality of these films are the elements of Schindler’s redemption the introduced to the saga, a twist that made the films grow beyond mere “adventure films”. They really have nothing else to offer beyond this, save for some of Gump’s philosophical preaching.
#5 & #4. The Godfather II and The Godfather III
With The Godfather II and III, they’re both just okay. No strong feelings either way about them. They are not as imaginative as Coppola’ Godfather I, but there is considerable effort to address the legacy of a character like Vito Corleone. Even though that twist allowed for the beautiful tale Coppola created in his first episode, they did present a problem with the idea that only one family could really effect the destiny of this town. But with the new character of Michael Corleone, we have a character who is clearly a nobody in Episode III and we get to see him come to accept that he has no destiny. But, it is a strong message that he has to make her own destiny, and Michael, just like anyone, can make a real difference.#3 Dragonball Evolution
(…)#2 Mac and Me
(…)#1 Plan 9 from Outer Space
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Here goes:
The Empire Strikes Back (9.5/10)
Star Wars (9/10)
Return Of The Jedi (8/10)
Revenge of the Sith (7/10)
Rogue One (7/10)
The Phantom Menace (6.5/10)
Attack of the Clones (6/10)
The Force Awakens (6/10)
The Last Jedi (5/10)
Nice ranking ! It’s good to see that EpIII ranked as the best post-OT entry. It’s well deserved. It’s also very nice to see a OT.com member who actually likes (more or less) all of them.
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I have mixed feelings about that. I don’t think ROTS is the “best” post OT star wars. But on the other hand in fanedited form I do ENJOY it the most. But I don’t think it’s the objectively best made, and I also can’t really give Lucasfilm all the credit for what fans were later able to change it in to. (Although I can give them credit for providing, in my opinion, the best raw material to later be recut out of the prequels). But as for which actually IS the best post ot film I’m not sure, but rots definitely has alot of heart. But I think I end up enjoying it more than it objectively deserves to be enjoyed because the score hits me in the feels so hard.
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well, imo for post OT entries, RotS > RO > AotC > TLJ > TPM > TFA. haven’t seen solo yet.
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Here goes:
The Empire Strikes Back (9.5/10)
Star Wars (9/10)
Return Of The Jedi (8/10)
Revenge of the Sith (7/10)
Rogue One (7/10)
The Phantom Menace (6.5/10)
Attack of the Clones (6/10)
The Force Awakens (6/10)
The Last Jedi (5/10)Nice ranking ! It’s good to see that EpIII ranked as the best post-OT entry. It’s well deserved. It’s also very nice to see a OT.com member who actually likes (more or less) all of them.
Thanks! I have found enjoyment in all Star Wars movies. 😃 I actually forgot to put Solo in my ranking, which might seem like a sort of criticism of the movie itself. I enjoyed it overall, but it’s also the most forgettable movie for me thusfar.
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RotS is my favorite, but I’m not blind to its flaws. I see as a masterpiece covered in crap; there’s great stuff in there if you’re willing to dig through all the bad.
That reverse order review was a fun read.
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I too like all the Star Wars movies. Honestly I’d wager most fans do.
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For myself I would say I don’t hate any of them and I would, some day, rewatch every single one of them, but I can’t pretend that I like TPM, AOTC, R1, Solo, TFA… (I like some of them when properly fan edited though) I can enjoy them, find qualities within, rewatch a few sequences and be glad to see the “SW soul” supplement in their DNA is always better to anything compared to the average blockbuster, but I honestly don’t like all of them. As a whole, it’s different, and maybe the “I-IX” experience may give the Saga something more as a complete movement than what just separate entries do.
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Worst to Best: Explained
- A New Hope
"I was utterly underwhelmed by “A New Hope,” impressed solely by the world-making of the script—the delivery of a ready-made but minor mythology—but neither moved nor fascinated nor at all delighted by the filmmaking. Rather, I was shocked—that the director of “American Graffiti” could have constrained himself to create such a turgid, stilted, flat, and textureless movie.” - Richard Brody, The New Yorker
The palette of Hollywood in the 70s, that had for the past few years been introducing avant-garde storytelling to a wider audience, now was doomed with the release of Lucas’ original space-fantasy. Being one of the first blockbusters, it became such a phenomenon that it laid the groundwork for all of the mind-numbing films that we associate with the term “blockbuster movies” for the next 40 years. Lucas, ironically, played a part of the banality of modern Hollywood, filled with dull stories, like seeing the same superhero plot with a new coat each year, and actions films that try to numb the mind with the overstimulation of the senses.
7 & 6. The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi
“Empire” and “Jedi” had nothing parodistic; their absurd earnestness and the bombastic banality of their direction (by Irvin Kershner and Richard Marquand, respectively) are a perfect match for the oppressive, hectoring John Williams scores that accompanied them. If there was nostalgic, faux-naïve whimsy in Lucas’s inaugural installment of “Star Wars,” it was gone from “Empire” and “Jedi,” replaced by a hegemonic bellow for devotion and belief.” - Brody
ESB can’t decide if it is a serious movie or a silly one. It is sort of a mess with no solid conclusion, making a film that can’t really stand on its own. I tend to agree with the thoughts here if you’d like to know more: http://www.simplysyndicated.com/why-empire-strikes-back-sucks-gundark-poodoo/
ROTJ, while repeating many of the same mistakes as the original Star Wars film, this is really where the idea of Vader as a sympathetic character is developed.
The only redeeming quality of these films are the elements of Darth Vader’s redemption the introduced to the saga, a twist that made the films grow beyond mere “adventure films”. They really have nothing else to offer beyond this, save for some of Yoda’s philosophical preaching.
5 & 4. Force Awakens and the Last Jedi
With The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, they’re both just okay. No strong feelings either way about them. They are not as imaginative as Lucas’ prequels, but there is considerable effort to address the legacy of a character like Vader. Even though that twist allowed for the beautiful tale Lucas created in his prequels, they did present a problem with the idea that only one family could really effect the destiny of this galaxy. But with the new character of Rey, we have a character who is clearly a nobody in Episode 7 and we get to see her come to accept that she has no destiny. But, it is a strong message that she has to make her own destiny, and Rey, just like anyone, can make a real difference. The story of Rey and Kylo Ren are the most interesting aspects of these new films, with Finn and Rose being my second favorites if they can conclude their arc in 8 appropriately in the next film. I’m sure IX will fit into the middle of my list as well, especially if they can devise a conclusion with Ben Solo returning to Leia that reflects Anakin leaving his own mother at the beginning of this saga.
- Revenge of the Sith
"The labyrinthine opening shot of “Revenge of the Sith”— of Anakin and Obi-Wan giving chase to Dooku through the space vehicles on the planet of Coruscant—is a mighty and audacious gauntlet-throw, the digital equivalent of the opening shot of Orson Welles’s “Touch of Evil.” It wheels and gyrates and zips and pivots with a vertiginous wonder that declares, from the beginning, that Lucas had big visual ideas and was about to realize them with a heroically inventive virtuosity. And the rest of the movie follows through on that self-dare.
If I had seen “Revenge of the Sith” in real time, in a theatre upon its release, in 2005, I think that, at the moment when Palpatine (Ian McDiarmid), sizzling in the blue lightning that Mace Windu (Samuel L. Jackson) reflects back at him, cries out to Anakin (Hayden Christensen), “Power! Unlimited Power!,” I would have leaped out of my seat yelling with excitement. The entire movie is filled with an absolute splendor of the pulp sublime, and that moment is its very apogee. Lucas reaches historic heights in the filming of action: the martial artistry of Anakin and Obi-Wan’s double duel versus Dooku, the gaping maw of outer space and of the airshaft into which the heroic duo drops, Obi-Wan’s light-sabre fight with the four-armed Grievous, and, above all, the apocalyptic inferno of the confrontation of Obi-Wan and Anakin (which, regrettably, cuts back to Yoda and Emperor, a much duller battle). I watched these sequences over and over—happily, with the sound off to get rid of the musical score—and was repeatedly and unflaggingly amazed by Lucas’s precise, dynamic, wildly imaginative direction.
The scripted politics of the conflicts have a grand imagination to match. What Lucas brings to the script of “Clones” and Sith” is a quasi- (or pseudo-) Shakespearean backroom dialectic of power-maneuvering. The dialogue is just heightened and sententious enough, just sufficiently rhetorical, to convey the grave moment of ideas in conflict and the grand mortal results of that dialectical clash—the making of a villain and the unmaking of a republic.” - Brody
Also, see Camille Puglia’s thoughts on ROTS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibkmh72_1pw
- The Phantom Menace
Phantom Menace evolved the franchise in a way that other franchises seem to fail at. Unique and imaginative, instead of giving us more of what “the fans” wanted, George decided to tell a story that grew beyond what the original Star Wars was meant to be. Instead of being a Flash Gordon-ripoff that tells an over-simplistic fairy tale, George set out to decontextualize this saga as a tragedy on the scales of Othello or Faust. He planted the seeds of a “Citizen Kane” in space. A young Anakin, bright-eyed and full of optimism, is taken away from his mother. The Jedi Order was nothing as fans had expected, instead, Lucas decided to portray them as a flawed order that practices non-attachment and have them represent a very unhealthy version of masculinity that inevitably leads Anakin to give in to his own fears and turn to evil.#1 Attack of the Clones
"This peculiar contradiction began to resolve itself with the pleasures of “Attack of the Clones.” There, Lucas’s force awakens. The movie’s rich-hued palette alone is a jolt from the start, and the movie’s action scenes have an alluring, entrancing kinetic vigor and texture. The speeder chase with the paid assassin, with its swoops and spins and drops; Obi-Wan’s fight with Jango Fett; and the serial duels with Count Dooku—all of these display balletic gracefulness and dazzling rapidity along with closely-textured compositions in depth, surprising pictorial imbalances, and angles that are as expressive as they are surprising. The colossal scale of the assembled clones toward the end of the film has an awe-inspiring power greater than anything in any of the four films that preceded it. My hypothesis is that digital technology caught up to Lucas’s imagination. Finally, by 2002, digital technology, which he had begun to use in “The Phantom Menace,” liberated him from the limits of optical effects and, by means of C.G.I., could create the fusion of live action and animation that was implicit in the project, and in his vision, from the start.” - Brody
This film is the epitome of what George Lucas always wanted, being able to tell a story that his completely his own, separated from Hollywood and with technology that was finally able to bring his wildest dreams to life. With it being the first major feature film completely shot on digital, it paved the way to the democratization of filmmaking, and now anyone can make a movie and find an audience online. Lucas was never able to successfully create his American Zoetrope he envisioned, a place for filmmakers to tell their stories away from Hollywood, but in a way, he succeeded through the breakthroughs that truly began with this film.
While I can understand some of what you are saying, you are definitely in a minority around here. You are likely to get some very strong reactions. As a long time SW fan (one of the original 1977 fans), I can’t agree with your assessment of the PT. I watch a lot of moves from all decades (not a huge fan of silent movies, but they are great if you can get used to the format, especially Chaplin’s comedies), and being familiar with what a great movie is, I cannot rate any of the Prequels as great films. The stories a cluttered and the writing is off (especially the dialog) and some of the characters are just annoying.
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There is no truly bad SW movie. Solo is really mediocre, though.
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For myself I would say I don’t hate any of them and I would, some day, rewatch every single one of them, but I can’t pretend that I like TPM, AOTC, R1, Solo, TFA… (I like some of them when propertly fan edited though) I can enjoy them, find qualities, rewatch a few sequences and be glad to see the “SW soul” supplement in them compared to the average blockbuster, but I honestly don’t like all of them. As a whole, it’s different, and maybe the “I-IX” experience may give the Saga something more as a complete movement than what just separate entries do.
ATOC and TFA are the only ones I did not fully enjoy on my first viewing. Both have segments that just took me right out of the film and derailed the story for me and I have never been able to recover from that. Both need a good fan edit (I would do it very lightly with as few changes as possible) to bring them up to the nearest stories. I cannot say I hate any of them, but those two I have the most profound issues with. Though in contemplating it, one of my issues with TFA has led to a personal retcon that solves a lot of issues for the entire Star Wars universe. Still, it would be a better movie if that was not needed. And the sections of ATOC are just bad and need to be axed.
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There is no truly bad SW movie. Solo is really mediocre, though.
As a fan of Brain Daley and Ann Crispin, I loved it and thought they did a fantastic job. It rewrote the legends origins, but kept some of the highlights. I’m a huge lover of Han’s corner of the Star Wars universe and so having a movie devoted to him is about the most exciting thing for me since learning Lucas was making the Prequels. It was the movie (since Disney acquired Lucasfilm) that I was most anticipating and it did not disappoint me.
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There is no truly bad SW movie.
AOTC trying it’s hardest to be though.
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At this point the only thing in last place that would surprise me is either the original or ESB.
funny how the post right after this one has the original in last place. 😛
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At this point the only thing in last place that would surprise me is either the original or ESB.
funny how the post right after this one has the original in last place. 😛
Isn’t that crazy? Must be a total coincidence. No way that was on purpose.
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Okay, so unsurprisingly that’s not my actual ranking. My real ranking is as predictable as you can expect, probably. Just trying to play advocate for a perspective rarely scene, for whatever value that could add to the conversation.
I do like all of the films, though. They’re not all perfect, but I think they all add something of value to the saga.
The guy I quoted, I personally think he sounds super pretentious, but I am fascinated by his own perspective on the franchise.
I appreciate you guys being so respectful of my faux opinions though! Good group right here.
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I knew that your ranking was a joke.
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Okay, so unsurprisingly that’s not my actual ranking. My real ranking is as predictable as you can expect, probably. Just trying to play advocate for a perspective rarely scene, for whatever value that could add to the conversation.
I do like all of the films, though. They’re not all perfect, but I think they all add something of value to the saga.
The guy I quoted, I personally think he sounds super pretentious, but I am fascinated by his own perspective on the franchise.I appreciate you guys being so respectful of my faux opinions though! Good group right here.
That’s a relief. Some of the reasoning you posted did make sense. I personally consider ATOC a better than average movie, but it has the biggest script failings of any of the films. But I could see someone who was young when the PT films came out having these opinions.
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For myself I would say I don’t hate any of them and I would, some day, rewatch every single one of them, but I can’t pretend that I like TPM, AOTC, R1, Solo, TFA… (I like some of them when propertly fan edited though) I can enjoy them, find qualities, rewatch a few sequences and be glad to see the “SW soul” supplement in them compared to the average blockbuster, but I honestly don’t like all of them. As a whole, it’s different, and maybe the “I-IX” experience may give the Saga something more as a complete movement than what just separate entries do.
ATOC and TFA are the only ones I did not fully enjoy on my first viewing. Both have segments that just took me right out of the film and derailed the story for me and I have never been able to recover from that. Both need a good fan edit (I would do it very lightly with as few changes as possible) to bring them up to the nearest stories. I cannot say I hate any of them, but those two I have the most profound issues with. Though in contemplating it, one of my issues with TFA has led to a personal retcon that solves a lot of issues for the entire Star Wars universe. Still, it would be a better movie if that was not needed. And the sections of ATOC are just bad and need to be axed.
Indeed AotC’s bad bits, while pretty bad, are relatively harmless. It doesn’t uproot the story or universe. It’s just bad scenes and/or dialogue that can easily be cut. It’s not the same as the problems some people have with TLJ or that I have with RotJ that come from taking the saga in an infuriatingly terrible direction. Granted, some of the problems are also the sort of harmless, easily removed, stuff with no implications down the line, like AotC, which just makes them even worse.
Out of curiosity, what is the headcanon you mentioned concerning TFA?
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Out of curiosity, what is the headcanon you mentioned concerning TFA?
I’m curious about this too.
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For myself I would say I don’t hate any of them and I would, some day, rewatch every single one of them, but I can’t pretend that I like TPM, AOTC, R1, Solo, TFA… (I like some of them when propertly fan edited though) I can enjoy them, find qualities, rewatch a few sequences and be glad to see the “SW soul” supplement in them compared to the average blockbuster, but I honestly don’t like all of them. As a whole, it’s different, and maybe the “I-IX” experience may give the Saga something more as a complete movement than what just separate entries do.
ATOC and TFA are the only ones I did not fully enjoy on my first viewing. Both have segments that just took me right out of the film and derailed the story for me and I have never been able to recover from that. Both need a good fan edit (I would do it very lightly with as few changes as possible) to bring them up to the nearest stories. I cannot say I hate any of them, but those two I have the most profound issues with. Though in contemplating it, one of my issues with TFA has led to a personal retcon that solves a lot of issues for the entire Star Wars universe. Still, it would be a better movie if that was not needed. And the sections of ATOC are just bad and need to be axed.
Indeed AotC’s bad bits, while pretty bad, are relatively harmless. It doesn’t uproot the story or universe. It’s just bad scenes and/or dialogue that can easily be cut. It’s not the same as the problems some people have with TLJ or that I have with RotJ that come from taking the saga in an infuriatingly terrible direction. Granted, some of the problems are also the sort of harmless, easily removed, stuff with no implications down the line, like AotC, which just makes them even worse.
Out of curiosity, what is the headcanon you mentioned concerning TFA?
Both TFA and TESB have some issues with the use of the word system. Take it as it is typically meant, that of a star system, and both those movies are derailed by science. But if you take that to be a planetary system (a planet and its moons) you can have the Millennium Falcon fly from Hoth to Bespin in a reasonable amount of time and you can have the people on Takodana watch the destruction of the Hosnian system without it being completely impossible. But even in the same system, watching the destruction of the Hosnian system stretches believably too far for me.