Star Wars has been dividing fans since Empire. Considering the passion fans hold for this series, and its nature as an ever expanding and evolving mythology, each new installment is bound to cause a considerable stir no matter what. Everyone would be a lot happier if they stopped getting so angry about the things they didn’t like and just ignored them, and instead focused on the things they did like. No need whatsoever to stress about things “not fitting canon” that way.
i agree.
Okay, this is where I stop, because all of this is 100% “I don’t like the ST so I’m going to rail against it and find every avenue I can to attack it” and not a discussion of keeping canonical cohesion of a saga across multiple decades and filmmakers. Which is the discussion I was hoping to find when I opened this thread.
I’m amazed this thread is still going, but thanks for the break down of what is really going on in all of these monolithic quote trees. Not liking the ST is fine. But claiming the real reason they don’t work is because they don’t follow the prequels enough is just bonkers. Nobody was going to pay however many millions to invite comparisons to that debacle. Things that leave a bad taste need a strong pallet cleanser after all.
The problem of this divisive approach is that it has resulted in two trilogies that have left a bad taste in a large subsection of the fanbase. It seems with each trilogy the fanbase is shattered further rather than united under one unifying vision that is satisfying to OT, PT, and ST fans alike, whilst bringing new fans into the fold. While I’m not a fan of the ST, I’m actually more concerned with LFM’s inability to create such a vision, and not to greatly piss off some significant portion of the fanbase. The disdain expressed by the different subsections of the fanbase towards each other seen in articles, on youtube, and in this thread, whether it be OT fans, PT fans, or ST fans is a testament to that failure.
Sure some people don’t like what was done so far in the new trilogy. But to say that these films are the problem and not the prequels seems more than a little odd. Even if you don’t enjoy them they at least try and fit the “SW Feel”. Disney is all about brand integrity after all. The PT instead is like a weird boring slog where everyone is playing a creepy monotone zombie in front of a bad green screen. The only thing those fit with tonally is the Luke/Leia Luke/Ben scenes from act three of ROTJ where George was clearly pulling the strings. The exact things every hates about ROTJ but magnified into a whole new trilogy.
I did not say that, as I clearly referred to both the PT and the ST. However, since the PT itself is over a decade old it’s water under the bridge, and I’m more concerned with what the current creators have done and can do to unite the fanbase. So far they’ve not been doing a very good job, as there appears to be more animosity within the fanbase than there ever was before.
Star Wars has been dividing fans since Empire. Considering the passion fans hold for this series, and its nature as an ever expanding and evolving mythology, each new installment is bound to cause a considerable stir no matter what. Everyone would be a lot happier if they stopped getting so angry about the things they didn’t like and just ignored them, and instead focused on the things they did like. No need whatsoever to stress about things “not fitting canon” that way.
The MCU seems to be doing just fine with creating a universe without all animosity and hate that the Star Wars franchise has become known for these days. So, the current creators must be doing something wrong, since this state of affairs surely isn’t what they signed up for.
Do people really care about the MCU that much though? As far as I can tell it is just a fun ride for the vast majority. :shrug:
I am sure it’s least 50% (probably 80%) of anything called fan anger is something for those fans to work out. Not something any director did to them.
Star Wars has been dividing fans since Empire. Considering the passion fans hold for this series, and its nature as an ever expanding and evolving mythology, each new installment is bound to cause a considerable stir no matter what. Everyone would be a lot happier if they stopped getting so angry about the things they didn’t like and just ignored them, and instead focused on the things they did like. No need whatsoever to stress about things “not fitting canon” that way.
The MCU seems to be doing just fine with creating a universe without all animosity and hate that the Star Wars franchise has become known for these days. So, the past and current creators must be doing something wrong, since this state of affairs surely isn’t what Disney was going for.
There are millions of reasons.
Basically, with Star Wars, I legitimately think you’re asking for something impossible. There is no scenario where Disney made Star Wars movies that weren’t divisive. Even if they played things conservatively and middle of the road, like Marvel, there’s going to be people mad about (I mean look at Solo). You’re just frustrated because you ended up in the mad group for the ST. But look on the bright side, you liked the PT a lot. So take what you like and be happy about it. Don’t fret over the rest.
Do people really care about the MCU that much though? As far as I can tell it is just a fun ride for the vast majority. :shrug:
I am sure it’s least 50% (probably 80%) of anything called fan anger is something for those fans to work out. Not something any director did to them.
Yes, the MCU has a large and devoted fanbase, including comic book fans who are devoted to seeing their favourite comic book characters done justice.
Star Wars is unique in the way it has brought out the worst in its fanbase, and I’m not just talking about the haters, and extremists.
Star Wars has been dividing fans since Empire. Considering the passion fans hold for this series, and its nature as an ever expanding and evolving mythology, each new installment is bound to cause a considerable stir no matter what. Everyone would be a lot happier if they stopped getting so angry about the things they didn’t like and just ignored them, and instead focused on the things they did like. No need whatsoever to stress about things “not fitting canon” that way.
The MCU seems to be doing just fine with creating a universe without all animosity and hate that the Star Wars franchise has become known for these days. So, the past and current creators must be doing something wrong, since this state of affairs surely isn’t what Disney was going for.
There are millions of reasons.
- The MCU has a back-history of mythology that they’re pulling from. With each new Star Wars film they reveal something new about the universe, and for some fans those things can contradict their understanding of the universe (whether justified or not).
- The MCU is a by nature a collection of divergent styles. No one cares if Guardians feels different than Captain America, because they’re used to it.
- When divisive things happen in the MCU (like say Iron Man 3), fans know that it will have basically zero impact on the rest of the movies.
- Because the film series is so recent, and has been made at such a steady clip, there has been extremely little room for the hardcore nerds to build up and speculate what the universe means to them and where they think things and characters should go, or what the backstory should look like. I would wager a significant reason why the PT and ST are so divisive is both trilogies have had decades worth of pent up hype and speculation. If Marvel stopped making movies in 2017 and waited until 2030 to release Infinity War, even if it was the exact same movie, I’d put money on a significant portion of the audience absolutely hating it.
- Ultimately, people are much more invested in Star Wars than the MCU.
Yeah, all of that.
Star Wars has been dividing fans since Empire. Considering the passion fans hold for this series, and its nature as an ever expanding and evolving mythology, each new installment is bound to cause a considerable stir no matter what. Everyone would be a lot happier if they stopped getting so angry about the things they didn’t like and just ignored them, and instead focused on the things they did like. No need whatsoever to stress about things “not fitting canon” that way.
The MCU seems to be doing just fine with creating a universe without all animosity and hate that the Star Wars franchise has become known for these days. So, the past and current creators must be doing something wrong, since this state of affairs surely isn’t what Disney was going for.
There are millions of reasons.
- The MCU has a back-history of mythology that they’re pulling from. With each new Star Wars film they reveal something new about the universe, and for some fans those things can contradict their understanding of the universe (whether justified or not).
- The MCU is a by nature a collection of divergent styles. No one cares if Guardians feels different than Captain America, because they’re used to it.
- When divisive things happen in the MCU (like say Iron Man 3), fans know that it will have basically zero impact on the rest of the movies.
- Because the film series is so recent, and has been made at such a steady clip, there has been extremely little room for the hardcore nerds to build up and speculate what the universe means to them and where they think things and characters should go, or what the backstory should look like. I would wager a significant reason why the PT and ST are so divisive is both trilogies have had decades worth of pent up hype and speculation. If Marvel stopped making movies in 2017 and waited until 2030 to release Infinity War, even if it was the exact same movie, I’d put money on a significant portion of the audience absolutely hating it.
- Ultimately, people are much more invested in Star Wars than the MCU.
Basically, with Star Wars, I legitimately think you’re asking for something impossible. There is no scenario where Disney made Star Wars movies that weren’t divisive. Even if they played things conservatively and middle of the road, like Marvel, there’s going to be people mad about (I mean look at Solo). You’re just frustrated because you ended up in the mad group for the ST. But look on the bright side, you liked the PT a lot. So take what you like and be happy about it. Don’t fret over the rest.
I actually didn’t like the PT a lot, but I appreciate it on a conceptual level. The PT movies range from passable to pretty good in my view, but I wouldn’t call myself a fan of any of them.
The point is not whether I personally like or dislike the ST. The point is how the current movies and its creators have approached the existing canon and its fanbase. There will allways be detractors, but when a movie like TLJ is so divisive, and causes such an emotional response, I think there’s reason for concern.
People like to point to the extremists, but they are only the tip of the iceberg. There are huge numbers of reasonable fans who have qualms about the current state of the franchise, who feel they are between a rock and a hard place. It’s not just about disliking a movie anymore, it’s about being accused of sexism, racism, and toxicity. It’s about being ostracized for not liking a movie.
Star Wars has been dividing fans since Empire. Considering the passion fans hold for this series, and its nature as an ever expanding and evolving mythology, each new installment is bound to cause a considerable stir no matter what. Everyone would be a lot happier if they stopped getting so angry about the things they didn’t like and just ignored them, and instead focused on the things they did like. No need whatsoever to stress about things “not fitting canon” that way.
The MCU seems to be doing just fine with creating a universe without all animosity and hate that the Star Wars franchise has become known for these days. So, the past and current creators must be doing something wrong, since this state of affairs surely isn’t what Disney was going for.
There are millions of reasons.
- The MCU has a back-history of mythology that they’re pulling from. With each new Star Wars film they reveal something new about the universe, and for some fans those things can contradict their understanding of the universe (whether justified or not).
- The MCU is a by nature a collection of divergent styles. No one cares if Guardians feels different than Captain America, because they’re used to it.
- When divisive things happen in the MCU (like say Iron Man 3), fans know that it will have basically zero impact on the rest of the movies.
- Because the film series is so recent, and has been made at such a steady clip, there has been extremely little room for the hardcore nerds to build up and speculate what the universe means to them and where they think things and characters should go, or what the backstory should look like. I would wager a significant reason why the PT and ST are so divisive is both trilogies have had decades worth of pent up hype and speculation. If Marvel stopped making movies in 2017 and waited until 2030 to release Infinity War, even if it was the exact same movie, I’d put money on a significant portion of the audience absolutely hating it.
- Ultimately, people are much more invested in Star Wars than the MCU.
Basically, with Star Wars, I legitimately think you’re asking for something impossible. There is no scenario where Disney made Star Wars movies that weren’t divisive. Even if they played things conservatively and middle of the road, like Marvel, there’s going to be people mad about (I mean look at Solo). You’re just frustrated because you ended up in the mad group for the ST. But look on the bright side, you liked the PT a lot. So take what you like and be happy about it. Don’t fret over the rest.
I actually didn’t like the PT a lot, but I appreciate it on a conceptual level. The PT movies range from passable to pretty good in my view, but I wouldn’t call myself a fan of any of them.
The point is not whether I personally like or dislike the ST. The point is how the current movies and its creators have approached the existing canon and its fanbase. There will allways be detractors, but when a movie like TLJ is so divisive, and causes such an emotional response, I think there’s reason for concern.
People like to point to the extremists, but they are only the tip of the iceberg. There are huge numbers of reasonable fans who have qualms about the current state of the franchise, who feel they are between a rock and a hard place.
I don’t know what to tell you. They made a movie that they thought was a good continuation and expansion of the series and the canon. For a lot of people it was. I’m absolutely certain they were genuinely shocked by the extent of the reaction (obviously they knew some would hate it). I know I was. When I saw the movie for the first time and saw the audience’s reaction, I thought it was going to be a massive hit with the fanbase and go over a lot better than either TFA or the prequels (to me, it felt like TLJ was made for Star Wars fans first, while TFA felt like it was made for general audiences first, and the prequels for Lucas first - FYI I don’t think any of those are bad things). Little did I know how some others would react, and how extremely.
Just goes to show in my mind that we’ve gotten to a point with this series where people’s emotions are so charged, and in some ways so disparate, that it’s impossible to completely reconcile them all. In my mind the only thing close to a solution for Disney/LFL is to move entirely beyond the existing characters, so at least there will be one less factor that comes with a lot of emotional baggage for fans.
It’s not just about disliking a movie anymore, it’s about being accused of sexism, racism, and toxicity. It’s about being ostracized for not liking a movie.
That stuff goes entirely both ways and has nothing to do with the films themselves.
Star Wars has been dividing fans since Empire. Considering the passion fans hold for this series, and its nature as an ever expanding and evolving mythology, each new installment is bound to cause a considerable stir no matter what. Everyone would be a lot happier if they stopped getting so angry about the things they didn’t like and just ignored them, and instead focused on the things they did like. No need whatsoever to stress about things “not fitting canon” that way.
The MCU seems to be doing just fine with creating a universe without all animosity and hate that the Star Wars franchise has become known for these days. So, the past and current creators must be doing something wrong, since this state of affairs surely isn’t what Disney was going for.
There are millions of reasons.
- The MCU has a back-history of mythology that they’re pulling from. With each new Star Wars film they reveal something new about the universe, and for some fans those things can contradict their understanding of the universe (whether justified or not).
- The MCU is a by nature a collection of divergent styles. No one cares if Guardians feels different than Captain America, because they’re used to it.
- When divisive things happen in the MCU (like say Iron Man 3), fans know that it will have basically zero impact on the rest of the movies.
- Because the film series is so recent, and has been made at such a steady clip, there has been extremely little room for the hardcore nerds to build up and speculate what the universe means to them and where they think things and characters should go, or what the backstory should look like. I would wager a significant reason why the PT and ST are so divisive is both trilogies have had decades worth of pent up hype and speculation. If Marvel stopped making movies in 2017 and waited until 2030 to release Infinity War, even if it was the exact same movie, I’d put money on a significant portion of the audience absolutely hating it.
- Ultimately, people are much more invested in Star Wars than the MCU.
Basically, with Star Wars, I legitimately think you’re asking for something impossible. There is no scenario where Disney made Star Wars movies that weren’t divisive. Even if they played things conservatively and middle of the road, like Marvel, there’s going to be people mad about (I mean look at Solo). You’re just frustrated because you ended up in the mad group for the ST. But look on the bright side, you liked the PT a lot. So take what you like and be happy about it. Don’t fret over the rest.
I actually didn’t like the PT a lot, but I appreciate it on a conceptual level. The PT movies range from passable to pretty good in my view, but I wouldn’t call myself a fan of any of them.
The point is not whether I personally like or dislike the ST. The point is how the current movies and its creators have approached the existing canon and its fanbase. There will allways be detractors, but when a movie like TLJ is so divisive, and causes such an emotional response, I think there’s reason for concern.
People like to point to the extremists, but they are only the tip of the iceberg. There are huge numbers of reasonable fans who have qualms about the current state of the franchise, who feel they are between a rock and a hard place.
I don’t know what to tell you. They made a movie that they thought was a good continuation and expansion of the series and the canon. For a lot of people it was. I’m absolutely certain they were genuinely shocked by the extent of the reaction (obviously they knew some would hate it). I know I was. When I saw the movie for the first time and saw the audience’s reaction, I thought it was going to be a massive hit with the fanbase and go over a lot better than either TFA or the prequels (to me, it felt like TLJ was made for Star Wars fans first, while TFA felt like it was made for general audiences first, and the prequels for Lucas first - FYI I don’t think any of those are bad things). Little did I know how some others would react, and how extremely.
Just goes to show in my mind that we’ve gotten to a point with this series where people’s emotions are so charged, and in some ways so disparate, that it’s impossible to completely reconcile them all. In my mind the only thing close to a solution for Disney/LFL is to move entirely beyond the existing characters, so at least there will be one less factor that comes with a lot of emotional baggage for fans.
I’ll agree with you on that.
Do people really care about the MCU that much though? As far as I can tell it is just a fun ride for the vast majority. :shrug:
I am sure it’s least 50% (probably 80%) of anything called fan anger is something for those fans to work out. Not something any director did to them.
Yes, the MCU has a large and devoted fanbase, including comic book fans who are devoted to seeing their favourite comic book characters done justice.
I’m still waiting for that to happen.
It’s not just about disliking a movie anymore, it’s about being accused of sexism, racism, and toxicity. It’s about being ostracized for not liking a movie.
That stuff goes entirely both ways and has nothing to do with the films themselves.
I disagree. People will be people. It’s the movies themselves that are the catalysts for this sort of behaviour, as it was in the days of the SE and the PT. Neither Lucas nor the current creators had/have a good handle on the fanbase and their expectations. That worries me.
the mcu is really fan service focused, while star wars is not.
just compare the last two huge MCU and SW installments: Infinity War and The Last Jedi. one is a fan service fest, the other is an indie director’s vision of the continuation of a story not really caring about what the fans think. i actually admire the latter attitude a lot more, even if i dislike TLJ and really enjoy Infinity War. but that IW was much better received by fans and general audience alike is an undisputable fact, so SW does probably have something to learn from the MCU in regards to audience reaction.
You can’t equate Marvel and Star Wars and say if there is no Marvel controversy then Lucasfilm must be doing something wrong. I understand why people compare them, but they’re not the same
the mcu is really fan service focused, while star wars is not.
just compare the last two huge MCU and SW installments: Infinity War and The Last Jedi. one is a fan service fest, the other is an indie director’s vision of the continuation of a story not really caring about what the fans think. i actually admire the latter attitude a lot more, even if i dislike TLJ and really enjoy Infinity War. but that IW was much better received by fans and general audience alike is an undisputable fact, so SW does probably have something to learn from the MCU in regards to audience reaction.
I don’t think IW was a fan service fest. The heroes lost, and 50% of them died. It featured a complex villain with moral ambiguity. I think the MCU moved beyond being just fan service a while ago. The last few entries have been extremely well recieved by fans and critics alike. It’s not high brow stuff, but let’s face it, neither is Star Wars.
You can’t equate Marvel and Star Wars and say if there is no Marvel controversy then Lucasfilm must be doing something wrong. I understand why people compare them, but they’re not the same
It’s not just Marvel. Star Wars has become a poster boy for fan toxicity in the eyes of the media. Its fans are at war with each other over the future of the franchise. I would say the franchise is in a deep crisis. Their last movie bombed. The Resistance trailer has recieved a mostly negative response.
the mcu is really fan service focused, while star wars is not.
just compare the last two huge MCU and SW installments: Infinity War and The Last Jedi. one is a fan service fest, the other is an indie director’s vision of the continuation of a story not really caring about what the fans think. i actually admire the latter attitude a lot more, even if i dislike TLJ and really enjoy Infinity War. but that IW was much better received by fans and general audience alike is an undisputable fact, so SW does probably have something to learn from the MCU in regards to audience reaction.
I don’t think IW was a fan service fest. The heroes lost, and 50% of them died. It featured a complex villain with moral ambiguity.
After 18 movies with next to zero deaths and very few complex villains, I’d say those were the two things most fans were clamoring for. I don’t want to go too far off topic, but I thought both of those elements were executed poorly and felt very fan servicey to me.
You can’t equate Marvel and Star Wars and say if there is no Marvel controversy then Lucasfilm must be doing something wrong. I understand why people compare them, but they’re not the same
It’s not just Marvel. Star Wars has become a poster boy for fan toxicity in the eyes of the media. Its fans are at war with each other over the future of the franchise. I would say the franchise is in a deep crisis, yet LFM seems to be oblivious to this, or is ignoring it altogether.
What are they supposed to do to fix this? I can’t think of any feasible solution. You speak out against toxicity, fans complain that you’re calling everyone toxic. You make a movie doing something interesting, fans complain it’s not what they want. You make a movie catering to fans, fans complain it’s not what they want. You make no movies, fans complain that the franchise is dying. You make lots of movies, fans complain that the franchise is dying. The truth is there’s no winning. Star Wars as a franchise just has a lot of shitty fans. This has been true and obvious for almost two decades now. There’s nothing anyone can do to change that.
the mcu is really fan service focused, while star wars is not.
just compare the last two huge MCU and SW installments: Infinity War and The Last Jedi. one is a fan service fest, the other is an indie director’s vision of the continuation of a story not really caring about what the fans think. i actually admire the latter attitude a lot more, even if i dislike TLJ and really enjoy Infinity War. but that IW was much better received by fans and general audience alike is an undisputable fact, so SW does probably have something to learn from the MCU in regards to audience reaction.
I don’t think IW was a fan service fest. The heroes lost, and 50% of them died. It featured a complex villain with moral ambiguity.
After 18 movies with next to zero deaths and very few complex villains, I’d say those were the two things most fans were clamoring for. I don’t want to go too far off topic, but I thought both of those elements were executed poorly and felt very fan servicey to me.
Which is fine of course, but unlike TLJ IW did not divide its fan base. I agree the MCU is too heavy on the fan service, but so is Star Wars, and most franchises these days.
You can’t equate Marvel and Star Wars and say if there is no Marvel controversy then Lucasfilm must be doing something wrong. I understand why people compare them, but they’re not the same
It’s not just Marvel. Star Wars has become a poster boy for fan toxicity in the eyes of the media. Its fans are at war with each other over the future of the franchise. I would say the franchise is in a deep crisis, yet LFM seems to be oblivious to this, or is ignoring it altogether.
What are they supposed to do to fix this? I can’t think of any feasible solution. You speak out against toxicity, fans complain that you’re calling everyone toxic. You make a movie doing something interesting, fans complain it’s not what they want. You make a movie catering to fans, fans complain it’s not what they want. You make no movies, fans complain that the franchise is dying. You make lots of movies, fans complain that the franchise is dying. The truth is there’s no winning. Star Wars as a franchise just has a lot of shitty fans. This has been true and obvious for almost two decades now. There’s nothing anyone can do to change that.
I think it’s too easy to blame the fans. The fact is that TFA and RO were generally well recieved by fans and critics alike, despite being derivative and rife with fan service. Evidently something changed after the release of TLJ.
You can’t equate Marvel and Star Wars and say if there is no Marvel controversy then Lucasfilm must be doing something wrong. I understand why people compare them, but they’re not the same
It’s not just Marvel. Star Wars has become a poster boy for fan toxicity in the eyes of the media. Its fans are at war with each other over the future of the franchise. I would say the franchise is in a deep crisis, yet LFM seems to be oblivious to this, or is ignoring it altogether.
What are they supposed to do to fix this? I can’t think of any feasible solution. You speak out against toxicity, fans complain that you’re calling everyone toxic. You make a movie doing something interesting, fans complain it’s not what they want. You make a movie catering to fans, fans complain it’s not what they want. You make no movies, fans complain that the franchise is dying. You make lots of movies, fans complain that the franchise is dying. The truth is there’s no winning. Star Wars as a franchise just has a lot of shitty fans. This has been true and obvious for almost two decades now. There’s nothing anyone can do to change that.
I think it’s too easy to blame the fans. The fact is that TFA and RO were generally well recieved by fans and critics alike, despite being derivative and rife with fan service. Evidently something changed after the release of TLJ.
People realized that TFA was hollow.
I honestly don’t think the franchise is as in as much crisis as people think it is.
Once we get past IX, and into new brand new territory, I think the majority of the fan base will be more positive about the franchise in general.
I just think more people have a relationship with Star Wars that is unlike any other fictional universe. People revere it, so going against preconceived notions regarding it (which Lucas did with the prequels and now is happening with new films) can be blasphemy to some people. Some people just have higher expectations for these films than anything else.
But like I said, once we get into Favreau’s tv series, D&D’s movie series and Rian’s trilogy, things that are likely separate from the OT and those characters, people hopefully will be more open-minded about the new content.
I definitely think “new” is what the franchise needs. Get away from the OT timeline and characters and explore new things.
In my mind the only thing close to a solution for Disney/LFL is to move entirely beyond the existing characters, so at least there will be one less factor that comes with a lot of emotional baggage for fans.
Or, you know, they could have treated the legacy characters right. Never getting to see the big three reunited just one more time on screen will always be unforgivable. That is one area the ST bungled from the beginning.
To your point, I agree and think a lot of the fervor will die down once the original cast are done post IX.
You can’t equate Marvel and Star Wars and say if there is no Marvel controversy then Lucasfilm must be doing something wrong. I understand why people compare them, but they’re not the same
It’s not just Marvel. Star Wars has become a poster boy for fan toxicity in the eyes of the media. Its fans are at war with each other over the future of the franchise. I would say the franchise is in a deep crisis, yet LFM seems to be oblivious to this, or is ignoring it altogether.
What are they supposed to do to fix this? I can’t think of any feasible solution. You speak out against toxicity, fans complain that you’re calling everyone toxic. You make a movie doing something interesting, fans complain it’s not what they want. You make a movie catering to fans, fans complain it’s not what they want. You make no movies, fans complain that the franchise is dying. You make lots of movies, fans complain that the franchise is dying. The truth is there’s no winning. Star Wars as a franchise just has a lot of shitty fans. This has been true and obvious for almost two decades now. There’s nothing anyone can do to change that.
I think it’s too easy to blame the fans. The fact is that TFA and RO were generally well recieved by fans and critics alike, despite being derivative and rife with fan service. Evidently something changed after the release of TLJ.
People realized that TFA was hollow.
I don’t agree. TFA served its purpose of mostly being a nostalgia trip, and while most felt it was derivative of ANH and very safe, I think only relatively small minority actually truly disliked it.