Sign In

Post #1240331

Author
DuracellEnergizer
Parent topic
Star Wars as a cohesive universe/canon.
Link to post in topic
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1240331/action/topic#1240331
Date created
14-Sep-2018, 11:03 PM
Last modified
14-Sep-2018, 11:05 PM
Edited by
DuracellEnergizer
Reason for edit
None provided

BiggsFan44 said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Alright, I’ll try to find your “examples” from throughout the thread and respond to them.

First, Yoda:

For example, I was just watching TLJ and I got to the scene with Yoda. Yoda is a puppet in TLJ when he was CG in the PT. The problem for me is that these movies are supposed to be installments in the same story, and yet that illusion is shattered into a million pieces when things like puppet Yoda

Yoda in TLJ is supposed to look as much like he did in ghost form in ROTJ as possible. He’s a puppet in the end of ROTJ when he’s a ghost. It would, in my opinion, be more immersion-breaking for him to be CGI and appear as he did 20 years before his death. It would be a different story (and an entirely different can of worms) had Lucas replaced ESB/ROTJ Yoda with a CGI model, but he never did. So, chronologically, you see (I) CGI/puppet (depending on the version of TPM you watch) > (II) CGI > (III) CGI > (V) Puppet > (VI) Puppet > (VIII) Puppet. You really think that (I) CGI/puppet > (II) CGI > (III) CGI > (V) Puppet > (VI) Puppet > (VIII) CGI would have been more cohesive when looked at as a full saga?

The Maz Kanata argument is invalid to me because she never appeared in any film prior to TFA, so there’s an infinite amount of freedom in her appearance. You’d have an argument if she appeared in TFA as CGI and was suddenly a puppet in TLJ, or something, but as it stands you’re creating a comparison where there isn’t one.

Yoda being CG might strain the link up with the OT, but the strain doesn’t come from what my thread is about, which is how we can consider this all to be one universe if creators are passing judgement on the quality of the depiction of supposedly equally canonical events.

So Lucas broke the cohesion of “one universe” by changing Yoda from a puppet to CGI first. Yet it’s the ST you’re railing against for going back to the puppet. That seems like a double standard to me - villifying ST filmmakers for changing a thing from one film to the next while excusing Lucas from doing the same because you prefer his movies.

On to other things…

or TFA being like the anti-prequel in much of its approach

How?

are pretty much rebuttals of earlier installments.

How are they rebuttals? Do they claim that the earlier movies never happened, wiping them from continuity the way every Highlander sequel has done to the film that came before it? No.

how can the fact that people can’t stop picking and choosing elements they like and don’t like from the movies (that goes for fans and creators alike) not completely destroy the illusion that ALL of these events from ALL of these movies and shows take place in the same universe?

It…doesn’t? I don’t understand how it does, and I’ve yet to see an explanation from you as to how this is the case in your mind.

the fact that TCW Anakin maybe should have been closer to Hayden, but also that they aren’t really AS different as Hayden detractors claim, and late season Lanter Anakin was as “unlikable” as Anakin ever was, especially in arcs like the second Clovis arc.

Did you just refute your own argument about Anakin in the same sentence in which you brought it up? Because I think you did.

I’d argue that the ST betrays the spirit of the series more than the PT did though. And that’s a larger problem than things like why Owen didn’t recognize 3-P0.
TFA is a waste of 200 million dollars because it copies a movie but makes it worse (And the argument that the first Disney SW movie needed to feel “familiar” is moot, since TFA locks the entire trilogy into a “big bad Empire vs. scrappy rebels” redo, complete with locking in the stale aesthetic/art direction), and TLJ writes Luke so incredibly OOC that he can’t be considered the same character who said “You’ve failed, your highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me.”

Okay, this is where I stop, because all of this is 100% “I don’t like the ST so I’m going to rail against it and find every avenue I can to attack it” and not a discussion of keeping canonical cohesion of a saga across multiple decades and filmmakers. Which is the discussion I was hoping to find when I opened this thread.

The Rosetta Stone of TFA is this- it doesn’t even have a scene that explains the political scenario to the level ANH did with the Tarkin round table scene, simply because the PT had “too much politics.”
TFA is so OBVIOUSLY reactionary, you trolling bantha.

BiggsFan44 said:

ChainsawAsh said:

BiggsFan44 said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Alright, I’ll try to find your “examples” from throughout the thread and respond to them.

First, Yoda:

For example, I was just watching TLJ and I got to the scene with Yoda. Yoda is a puppet in TLJ when he was CG in the PT. The problem for me is that these movies are supposed to be installments in the same story, and yet that illusion is shattered into a million pieces when things like puppet Yoda

Yoda in TLJ is supposed to look as much like he did in ghost form in ROTJ as possible. He’s a puppet in the end of ROTJ when he’s a ghost. It would, in my opinion, be more immersion-breaking for him to be CGI and appear as he did 20 years before his death. It would be a different story (and an entirely different can of worms) had Lucas replaced ESB/ROTJ Yoda with a CGI model, but he never did. So, chronologically, you see (I) CGI/puppet (depending on the version of TPM you watch) > (II) CGI > (III) CGI > (V) Puppet > (VI) Puppet > (VIII) Puppet. You really think that (I) CGI/puppet > (II) CGI > (III) CGI > (V) Puppet > (VI) Puppet > (VIII) CGI would have been more cohesive when looked at as a full saga?

The Maz Kanata argument is invalid to me because she never appeared in any film prior to TFA, so there’s an infinite amount of freedom in her appearance. You’d have an argument if she appeared in TFA as CGI and was suddenly a puppet in TLJ, or something, but as it stands you’re creating a comparison where there isn’t one.

Yoda being CG might strain the link up with the OT, but the strain doesn’t come from what my thread is about, which is how we can consider this all to be one universe if creators are passing judgement on the quality of the depiction of supposedly equally canonical events.

So Lucas broke the cohesion of “one universe” by changing Yoda from a puppet to CGI first. Yet it’s the ST you’re railing against for going back to the puppet. That seems like a double standard to me - villifying ST filmmakers for changing a thing from one film to the next while excusing Lucas from doing the same because you prefer his movies.

On to other things…

or TFA being like the anti-prequel in much of its approach

How?

are pretty much rebuttals of earlier installments.

How are they rebuttals? Do they claim that the earlier movies never happened, wiping them from continuity the way every Highlander sequel has done to the film that came before it? No.

how can the fact that people can’t stop picking and choosing elements they like and don’t like from the movies (that goes for fans and creators alike) not completely destroy the illusion that ALL of these events from ALL of these movies and shows take place in the same universe?

It…doesn’t? I don’t understand how it does, and I’ve yet to see an explanation from you as to how this is the case in your mind.

the fact that TCW Anakin maybe should have been closer to Hayden, but also that they aren’t really AS different as Hayden detractors claim, and late season Lanter Anakin was as “unlikable” as Anakin ever was, especially in arcs like the second Clovis arc.

Did you just refute your own argument about Anakin in the same sentence in which you brought it up? Because I think you did.

I’d argue that the ST betrays the spirit of the series more than the PT did though. And that’s a larger problem than things like why Owen didn’t recognize 3-P0.
TFA is a waste of 200 million dollars because it copies a movie but makes it worse (And the argument that the first Disney SW movie needed to feel “familiar” is moot, since TFA locks the entire trilogy into a “big bad Empire vs. scrappy rebels” redo, complete with locking in the stale aesthetic/art direction), and TLJ writes Luke so incredibly OOC that he can’t be considered the same character who said “You’ve failed, your highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me.”

Okay, this is where I stop, because all of this is 100% “I don’t like the ST so I’m going to rail against it and find every avenue I can to attack it” and not a discussion of keeping canonical cohesion of a saga across multiple decades and filmmakers. Which is the discussion I was hoping to find when I opened this thread.

The Rosetta Stone of TFA is this- it doesn’t even have a scene that explains the political scenario to the level ANH did with the Tarkin round table scene, simply because the PT had “too much politics.”
TFA is so OBVIOUSLY reactionary, you trolling bantha.

Love it when members with one-day-old accounts call 14-year veterans of the site trolls.

Clearly you’re not interested in having an actual conversation. Thanks for the new signature quote, though. Bye.

What does time on this forum have to do with it? You’re not going to troll people who share your opinions.
Also, you know I’m right about TFA.

lawl

I suspect there’s indeed a “trolling bantha” in this thread, but it isn’t ChainsawAsh.