Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo — Page 825

Mrebo said:

flametitan said:

Mrebo said:

I think the anti- “thoughts and prayers” meme is more tired than the condolences people offer. Complaining about expressions of sympathy gets zero traction in trying to convince people of policy views.

Here’s the thing: People (aside from mfm) are generally fine with prayer and condolences. What people are complaining about is that the people who have the power to do something about it (politicians) refuse to do something about it. “Thoughts and Prayers,” is a non-answer designed to pacify the masses, rather than anything sincere.

Politicians express condolences when tragedies are in the news. There are sincere differences of opinion on whether a shooting indicates a policy change is needed. The idea that politicians don’t feel sorrow for the victims and/or secretly agree with the call for more gun control is not true.

The anti-thoughts/prayers meme was effective in binding gun control to a narrative that prevents real dialogue. Some don’t care about persuading others or are convinced it’s futile. That’s where our society has headed on most issues. Something happens and we recite the usual mantras and impugn the other side.

so let me get this straight. you think that what you label the “anti-thoughts/prayers meme” is what is trying to prevent real dialogue? You are very wrong. those who are sick of the ‘our thoughts are with you’ words from politicians are sick of it precisely because this is what those politicians are doing in place of real dialogue. They say this, and then move on to other things they care about.

I think the anti-thoughts-and-prayers thing is stupid. If you want politicians to act on guns, then say that instead of being offended at the offering of condolences. You do know liberal politicians started that, right? It is just another way to have another dig at the other side. I’d rather have legit, real, and rational debate and conversation instead of game playing.

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

If want politicians to act on guns, then say that instead of being offended at the offering of condolences.

If they’re going to do nothing, then they shouldn’t offer condolences.

Why?

because their actions (or lack thereof) show that they don’t gvie a shit.

I think some of them give a shit, they just don’t think more gun control is the solution(I disagree with them). There are of course some that only care about the campaign contributions from the NRA.

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

This issue only first bugged me when George Bush (Jr.) kept saying “we have to pray”. Every time something happened, those seemed to always be his words - “we have to pray”. Well, I’m not religious, and it just kinda bugged me that the president of a democratic country ostensibly with separation of church and state seemed so intent on having me pray.

Even though we have separation of church and state, the President is still an American Citizen and the Bill of Right apply to him just as they do with other citizens. He has freedom of religion and speech. This means he can be a Christian and pray and can say that he thinks others should pray as well.

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

Warbler said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

This issue only first bugged me when George Bush (Jr.) kept saying “we have to pray”. Every time something happened, those seemed to always be his words - “we have to pray”. Well, I’m not religious, and it just kinda bugged me that the president of a democratic country ostensibly with separation of church and state seemed so intent on having me pray.

Even though we have separation of church and state, the President is still an American Citizen and the Bill of Right apply to him just as they do with other citizens. He has freedom of religion and speech. This means he can be a Christian and pray and can say that he thinks others should pray as well.

I know he has that right. But it doesn’t seem appropriate to me to use this particular office as a pulpit. It’s not part of the job description - quite the contrary. That’s kinda what separation of church and state means.

I don’t think separation of church and state means that it is inappropriate for the President to ask people to pray for victims of a shooting.

First good thing that’s happened during this administration, though the lawsuit predates it:
Justice Department Sides Against Harvard In Racial Discrimination Lawsuit (NPR)

Now, how about those student loans/tuition?

Handman said:

First good thing that’s happened during this administration, though the lawsuit predates it:
Justice Department Sides Against Harvard In Racial Discrimination Lawsuit (NPR)

As someone whom has an Asian American niece, I agree.

Warbler said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

Warbler said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

This issue only first bugged me when George Bush (Jr.) kept saying “we have to pray”. Every time something happened, those seemed to always be his words - “we have to pray”. Well, I’m not religious, and it just kinda bugged me that the president of a democratic country ostensibly with separation of church and state seemed so intent on having me pray.

Even though we have separation of church and state, the President is still an American Citizen and the Bill of Right apply to him just as they do with other citizens. He has freedom of religion and speech. This means he can be a Christian and pray and can say that he thinks others should pray as well.

I know he has that right. But it doesn’t seem appropriate to me to use this particular office as a pulpit. It’s not part of the job description - quite the contrary. That’s kinda what separation of church and state means.

I don’t think separation of church and state means that it is inappropriate for the President to ask people to pray

I think that’s exactly what it means, and I don’t think what he’s asking people to pray for is relevant to the question in any way.

Separation of church and state doesn’t mean that the government is without religion whatsoever. Most of the world is religious. It just means that the government can’t put one religion over the other. During the Cold War, one of the things this country criticized Russia for was its atheism. Now, that age is over, and atheism isn’t looked at the same way it was then. But it feels relevant.

ChainsawAsh said:

Warbler said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

Warbler said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

This issue only first bugged me when George Bush (Jr.) kept saying “we have to pray”. Every time something happened, those seemed to always be his words - “we have to pray”. Well, I’m not religious, and it just kinda bugged me that the president of a democratic country ostensibly with separation of church and state seemed so intent on having me pray.

Even though we have separation of church and state, the President is still an American Citizen and the Bill of Right apply to him just as they do with other citizens. He has freedom of religion and speech. This means he can be a Christian and pray and can say that he thinks others should pray as well.

I know he has that right. But it doesn’t seem appropriate to me to use this particular office as a pulpit. It’s not part of the job description - quite the contrary. That’s kinda what separation of church and state means.

I don’t think separation of church and state means that it is inappropriate for the President to ask people to pray

I think that’s exactly what it means,

No, it means he can’t force people to pray, it doesn’t mean he can’t ask.

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

This issue only first bugged me when George Bush (Jr.) kept saying “we have to pray”. Every time something happened, those seemed to always be his words - “we have to pray”. Well, I’m not religious, and it just kinda bugged me that the president of a democratic country ostensibly with separation of church and state seemed so intent on having me pray.

Even though we have separation of church and state, the President is still an American Citizen and the Bill of Right apply to him just as they do with other citizens. He has freedom of religion and speech. This means he can be a Christian and pray and can say that he thinks others should pray as well.

That makes him an irresponsible leader.

Asking for prayer makes one an irresponsible leader???

moviefreakedmind said:

I don’t want my leaders to waste one second on prayer.

Well, not everyone is like you. Some people like leaders who pray.

Warbler said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Warbler said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

Warbler said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

This issue only first bugged me when George Bush (Jr.) kept saying “we have to pray”. Every time something happened, those seemed to always be his words - “we have to pray”. Well, I’m not religious, and it just kinda bugged me that the president of a democratic country ostensibly with separation of church and state seemed so intent on having me pray.

Even though we have separation of church and state, the President is still an American Citizen and the Bill of Right apply to him just as they do with other citizens. He has freedom of religion and speech. This means he can be a Christian and pray and can say that he thinks others should pray as well.

I know he has that right. But it doesn’t seem appropriate to me to use this particular office as a pulpit. It’s not part of the job description - quite the contrary. That’s kinda what separation of church and state means.

I don’t think separation of church and state means that it is inappropriate for the President to ask people to pray

I think that’s exactly what it means,

No, it means he can’t force people to pray, it doesn’t mean he can’t ask.

No, but it’s certainly inappropriate in my view, specifically because of the concept of separation of church and state.