Continuing discussion from this thread.
As to [Hux’s] seriousness, I’d say it’s about the same in both. He’s not making jokes in TLJ, he’s the butt of them.
Every moment he has in the film is undercut with him being made a joke. The only actual serious moment he has is when he almost shoots Ren and that was an improvised moment from Gleeson.
That’s far from the “only serious moment” with him (remember he’s the one who tracks them through hyperspace? not to mention his final shot which seems to indicate friction in IX). Not to mention you just named probably single funniest Hux moment in the whole film.
Snoke has a far bigger role with much greater relevance to the plot at hand in TLJ than TFA. Just because you expected him to survive TLJ because of his role in the lore pre-TFA doesn’t mean his death undermines TFA. In any way.
I don’t care at all that he died in TLJ. It was a good moment of character growth for Ben. What is inexcusable is that Snoke was not expounded upon AT ALL before his death.
In that regard it is 100% consistent with how he’s portrayed in TFA, no?
Are we talking about the same character who crawls across a crowded table to stare at Finn in TFA?
Come on. You very well know there’s a galaxy of difference between crawling across a table and literally flying around like a video game character taking out hordes of off-screen enemies.
I mean sure they are two different things, but I’m really struggling to see the issue here. You mentioned something goofy she does, so did I. You’re right we don’t see her shooting at people in TFA, but does that really mean she’s not allowed to ever? She can’t use a jetpack because we don’t see her with one in TFA? I don’t get it.
TFA was the film that sent [Luke] into hiding in the first goddamn place. I’m honestly baffled that anyone expected anything else of his character other than reluctance.
The very nature of his originally intended introduction says otherwise. Here are just a few alternative explanations for why he disappeared:
- As explained in TFA he went off looking for the first Jedi temple. Why? Perhaps in hopes of learning how to defeat Snoke. Why? What if Snoke was an ancient evil of some kind that Luke was unprepared to deal with.
- After finding the temple he crashes and is stranded. Perhaps the nature of the planet is such that it blocks anyone from reaching out or being reached out to in the Force. Which is why the temple was built there in the first place.
- Perhaps there were other survivors from his original academy that he secreted away to continue teaching. Hiding so that they can continue in peace without fear of Kylo returning to finish what he started.
- Perhaps Luke knew he wasn’t meant to be the one to stop Snoke and so he shuts himself off and devotes himself to preparing to train the one who is. Waiting for the Force to bring them to him.
So you believe there are multiple ways they could have continued what you admit was an ambiguous set up for Luke, yet you refuse to see how the way they went was equally valid and in keeping with what was shown? Only the ideas you came up with would’ve been valid?
And they changed what was written for a reason - because it would’ve contradicted Luke “cutting himself off from the Force” (but notice that it was changed and not portrayed that way in the finished film! Oh wait but I thought JJ and Rian were giving each other the middle finger?). Besides that there’s no inconsistency.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. TLJ didn’t contradict TFA at all.
TFA ends with a clear setup for the sequel that TLJ completely abandons. “Leave the base at once and come to me with Kylo Ren. It is time to complete his training.”
The start of TLJ should have been the mirroring of Rey and Ben through their simultaneous training. You can even keep the “Forcetime” plot device so that they can communicate with each other throughout this time.
The Kylo training segments would also be an opportunity to expound on Snoke.
The fact that Kylo’s training wasn’t visualized in the traditional sense doesn’t mean it was completely “abandoned.” I think there’s multiple interpretations to that - it’s possible that Kylo continued his training off screen and even on - with the whole force time gambit and striking “his true enemy” being a final test of sorts; or that Snoke died before he could totally fulfill that promise. Either way “complete his training” is just a totally vague and one-off sequel hook line, and far from what actually matters in telling a story - consistent character progress, which is definitely there. Would you say ROTJ undermined ESB with its retcon of the “there is another” sequel hook?
All you’re really telling me is what I already knew and have been saying: this isn’t an issue of whether or not TLJ “undermined” TFA, you just had very specific expectations for how they’d follow that story and you were mad that the expectations weren’t met (regardless of whether or not the divergent direction they took is in keeping with what came before, which it is).