So this thread has basically turned into “let’s tear into every single aspect of TLJ”.
Honestly I never expected this movie to generate such a negative reaction, and I’m in a very lonely position of absolutely loving it.
That’s fine, and I would be interested to know why you love it so much. I consider TLJ to be a mixed bag of some great ingredients, and plenty of undercooked ones. Overall it’s a visually stunning, somewhat bloated, but entertaining movie in my view when seen on its own terms, but the worst Star Wars movie to date for me on a number of levels. However, I do think we’ve not seen enough positive critical analysis of TLJ in this thread.
Where I come from is seeing the Star Wars saga as a series of movies done a bit out of order but done in a way that makes them feel more like the numerical order rather than the production order. The OT is very gritty. Very 70’s. But at the same time, very 50’s in that Lucas emulated the great 50’s epics and samurai films. When he went back and did the PT, he gave it more of a classic era feel. Very 30’s and 40’s. The ST therefore should feel new and in a more modern style. I think Kennedy should hold a tighter rein on the directors and not give them as much leeway. These two movies of the ST have turned out very different. Yet I think the first two movies of the OT were very different. It was Return of the Jedi that melded them into a unified whole. IX could still mold the ST unto a unified whole if it is done right (this is Abrams we are talking about so I have my doubts).
Within that, I find TFA to be the odd movie. I feel Abrams was not the right choice and that his first outing was too safe. Rian Johnson comes in and he treats it like any movie and let’s the story take him where it wants to go. He versed himself in the meat that fed George’s creativity - war movies, classics, samurai cinema. His prior films are very much like Irvin Kershner’s. He wrote the script before TFA came out - before the fans started analyzing and predicting.
When I look at TLJ that way, I don’t see something that doesn’t fit. I see something that fits incredibly well. I can see where the story may be going. To me that makes for a great middle chapter. I found the crafting of the Rey/Luke plot to be outstanding. He took our hero and his TFA established trials and tapped into the Luke of the OT and his flaws and accentuated them based on a horrible event. And in that character he gave Rey exactly what her character needed. She didn’t need just a trainer, but someone to make her face her problems. At the same time, her reaction to Luke was exactly what he needed to shake him out of his funk. So on both sides there is character growth. Rey faces the reality that her parents abandoned her and that they were no one significant (we are never told they did not have any connection with the force, just that they were nobody). Luke faces his failure with Ben/Kylo and the very real possibility that Rey genuinely needs him and that he could help her. Both characters grow.
Poe was a throw away character in TFA. He’s supposed to be the best pilot in the Resistance, but other than that he had no character journey at all. In TLJ, he starts out as the same brash pilot and is knocked down by first Leia and then Holdo for not thinking things through. Both of them see Poe’s potential (a little bit of dialog between them) and he gets the lesson they were trying to teach him - that to be a leader means sometimes pulling back and being cautious.
Finn starts out still running. In TFA he was running from the First Order and latched onto Rey. In TLJ he is still running and latched onto Rey until Rose opens his eyes to the cause of the Resistance and Finn takes it on as his own. His death trying to destroy the cannon would be also destroy his character development in the trilogy so Rose saving his life is not only a necessary thing, but what she says and the following events solidify the Finn has grown and is a new person.
The character growth of all the characters puts them in place to be who they need to be for IX. That is the point of this film. It is the middle chapter. It isn’t supposed to tell the start or end of the tale, but the middle. It bridges between the opening chapter and the closing chapter while still telling a significant story. When you analize it compared to TESB, there are sizable differences, but one major similarity - both serve as the middle and do it well. That is something the PT is lacking. It has two starts. TPM is a beginning on two levels. The beginning of the saga as a whole and the beginning of the first trilogy. It is just an introduction to Anakin’s story which doesn’t really start until ATOC when he is truly one of the main characters. That film failed on many levels and brings down the entire PT with its failures. I think TFA has similar issues. They were just obscured because we didn’t know where the story might go. In my ordering of the saga films, I think TFA is actually the worst movie. Sure the character vignettes are great, but that does not make a good Star Wars film. TLJ digs into the characters and challenges them. Each character changes as a result and is closer to who they need to be in IX.
As a former RPG player of the West End RPG, I found nothing about TLJ to raise an eyebrow. The force powers were in line with the Star Wars extended canon (as in all the source books about the Jedi). Abrams stated that one thing he wanted was to make the force something that anyone can use - the feeling he had back in 77 when he watched the first film. RJ took that and emphasized that. Clone Wars and Rebels have had a similar emphasis. Sure, the Skywalker line is strong, but Jedi pop up everywhere before the Skywalkers came around. The PT Jedi don’t seem to procreate, leading virtually monastic lives. So the Jedi before TPM weren’t relying on family lineages for strong Jedi, but common people. Nobodies who happened to be strong in the force. To me the description Lucas and Hamill gave of Luke’s role in the PT was always going to be what we just got. I’d dare to say that RJ made Luke far more significant than Lucas had planned. I think Luke dying was always part of the PT.
In point after point, TLJ is a perfect ST middle chapter from my point of view. I was enthralled the first time I watched it and I have yet to see anything I object to. All that really means is that RJ and I are on the same page for what this chapter should do. I was disappointed by TFA, but not TLJ. I also wasn’t disappointed with Rogue One or Solo. So out of 7 movies made since the OT, I find the last three to be the best. To me they are the closest to the OT vision that I’ve lived with. I think ATOC and TFA are the worst with TPM and ROTS in the middle.