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Post #1230968

Author
Shopping Maul
Parent topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD *
Link to post in topic
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1230968/action/topic#1230968
Date created
2-Aug-2018, 2:27 PM

yotsuya said:

Jay said:

Mocata said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Rey isn’t a Jedi yet.

Which begs the question what does Rey miss, that would prevent her from being called a Jedi? She has pretty much all the skills. She defeated Kylo Ren, resisted Snoke, and rejected Kylo Ren’s offer. What else is left for her to do, outside of defeating Kylo Ren again?

Being a Jedi is about more than just having all the skillz (which there’s no indication she has anyway). She defeated Kylo in a moment of weakness for him (and the next time she tried to face him she never even got to ignite her saber). She did not resist Snoke. And rejecting a single offer towards the dark side doesn’t mean that you’ll never face temptation again. Luke rejected Vader’s offer in ESB, don’t forget.

Sure, but let’s also not forget, that Luke did not have the level of control Rey has at the end of TESB. Luke still struggled to lift a few rocks, and got handed his *** by Vader. Rey came out victorious by comparison, and even got to rescue the rebels in the end.

That doesn’t make her a Jedi.

Right.

Being a Jedi was never about having level 90 flip ability and knowing how to dismember a dude in a few seconds. Power levels and midichlorians are PT nonsense. “My powers have doubled since we last met” says Anakin. WHAT. What does that even mean. The whole trilogy is gibberish. Now take ROTJ and what does Luke really do to become a Jedi Knight? He fights yet again, and he actually only beats Vader in combat when anger and rage fuel his body. Just like Vader said in ESB. But becoming a Jedi has nothing to do with sweet moves and fighting abilities. Luke goes beyond that and throws down the saber. It’s a spiritual state of mind, like a touch of Zen. People argue over and over about ridiculous things like how can Rey do this or that. Who even cares. It’s irrelevant.

After Rey’s childhood, there’s nothing zen about her. I can’t buy the notion that a week’s worth of stress focused her mind and turned the coal into a diamond. Show me a monk who achieves enlightenment in a week.

Whether you define the scope of what it means to be a Jedi as flipping around and floating rocks or a spiritual, zen-like state of mind, neither should be possible to the extent Rey is capable within a few days.

You are right. That is why I’ve been saying her life on Jakku provided the training she needed. Ignoring the possibility that life can teach you what you need before you actually need it is ignoring a very real occurance. What I do every day right now at work, I learned how to do by accident years ago. I literally fell into the job I have now because of things I’d done years before working for my current employer. And we are talking about a fictional character in a fictional world in a story based on mythic heroes so having a character who has life experiences that prepared them for their journey is natural. You are maintaining the the skills a Jedi need are unique and I am saying they probably aren’t. You need to believe in yourself and trust your abilities (at least that is what I’ve always understood from Yoda and Obi-wan’s lessons - which are mirrored in Samurai training). Rey shows that she has learned those lessons already. Luke had not. What we need to be asking is what is Rey’s journey in this trilogy. She has the disciple, the force skills come easy for her, so those are just tools she needs. Her demons relate to being abandoned by her parents, needing guidance, both in general and what it is to be a Jedi. It is more than having these amazing powers. Powers do not a Jedi make.

In theory I like the ‘school of hard knocks’ idea with regard to Rey’s training. It provides an interesting contrast to the Luke/Anakin experience. The problem is where to place the limits. The OT and PT were all about discipline and struggle and earning the Jedi mantle. You mentioned the Karate Kid at one point. If I remember correctly poor little Ralph Macchio hated the ‘wax on’ routine. He also felt like a moron standing there like a flamingo. That was the whole point, that he had to master himself in order to become a master.

Rey’s doesn’t struggle with anything. Ever. Mind tricks? Got it. Telekinesis? Easy! Resisting the Dark Side? Eh, child’s play! This breaks canon. Both the OT and PT emphasised the learning curve associated with becoming a Jedi Knight. The ST says there is no learning curve. Even Broom Boy levitates stuff without breaking a sweat.

When Luke met Han in ANH, Han stipulated that he’d never seen anything in all his travels that made him believe in the Force. Surely he would’ve come across something Force-like if these powers really do manifest X-Men style in any old Tom, Dick, and Harry? No, these traits were set up to be mysterious and rare. And more importantly - earned. Leia never had attitude problems. Why didn’t her powers just appear at the first sight of a broom?

Speculating that these powers are no big deal and that Luke simply didn’t have the right attitude diminishes the character of Luke Skywalker and the OT. That may be okay for some but not for me. Midichlorians were bad enough. The notion that Luke was merely a crap Jedi, or that the Force automatically ‘awakens’ in certain folks in order to consciously restore its own balance smacks of desperation to me. These new movies are beautiful and fun and have a great cast, but the writing seems more concerned with fanservice and big moments than actually telling a coherent story that respects (and expands upon without contradicting) the established lore.