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The Things We Hate And Love Thread . — Page 98

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Originally posted by: JediSage
Originally posted by: Shimraa
ok so in the quran it states that all whoa re not muslims are infidels and it probably also has a lot of other antisematic talk about christians. so i were to go on to a church on easter, or christmas eve and stated that christians are infidels, and that they need to change there beleives or die in hell. what would happen to me. this guy quoted a very hateful quote from the bible of all the weeks of the year on GAY PRIDE WEEK, in responce to gay pride. i'd say the guy deserved what he got for sheer stupidity, what did he think would happen. and the guy wasnt arrested, he was fined, big difference, that quote was indeed hateful. how would you feel if i said to you that your chirstian you should be beheaded in repayment for all the crimes that christians did in the cursades and all throughtout history, you wouldnt like it, nor would a gay person. and the court is not saying that the bible is hateful he says the quote was hateful, again big difference. it just shows how when christians over react whenever one thing goes wrong in there favour.

and ill remind you, everyone has freedom of religion, however no one has the freedom to persicute and infringe on the rights of other people. which is what was done when the guy printed those verses.


There can be no discourse on the subject so long as one side of the argument can be silenced with the help of the police power of government. A government/people cannot make the claim of being tolerant while intimidating those who would disagree. If they silence those who disagree on the basis of their religious beliefs, how long until they silence those who just say "homosexuality is wrong"? Does a person's right to speak get suspended during gay pride week?

In response to your question of beheading, I'd say no surprise. It's been hundreds of years and the left still screams "CRUSADES!!" in response to anyone who dares raise a moral or religious issue in a public forum the same way they scream "McCarthyism!!" when someone points out a socialist voting record. Of course most people still don't "get" that the Crusades were in response to a Muslim invasion of Europe.

A fine is a punishment for something for which you've been arrested. If I get a speeding ticket, I've been arrested for speeding. It doesn't matter how miniscule the crime or punishment is.

I suggest you take a look at your own response when accusing someone of overreacting, and your reply about the bible/Christians being hateful is dripping with hypocrisy.


and your arguement is so holo there is a big difference between someone saying gays should be beheaded and left to rott in there own self-ruin, and saying being gay is morally wrong. no one will ever get fined for saying its morally wrong. and suggesting they would is the same thing as saying, oh we commit murders to death, now how long until we send those who attempt to murder to death. but still the bottem line is that the guy tried to put them down during their week, the week when they like to feel good about themselves, and that is wrong.
yes your right they struck first, but europe struck again and agian for hundreds of years.

and I NEVERSAID THAT THE BILBE IS HATEFUL, LEARN TO FUCKIN READ, I SAID THAT THE VERSE WAS HATEFUL, NOT THE BIBLE. THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE, AND YOU CHANGING MY WORDS IS PROOF OF HOW SOME POEPLE IN THE CHIRSTIAN FAITH OVERREACT WHEN THEY SEE THE SLIGHTEST THING, I ONCE HEARD A CHIRSTIAN SAY TO ME THAT THE CHRISTIAN FAITH IS THE MOST PERSICUTED IN THE WORLD, TODAY, THATS MORE PROOF OF IT, THERE IS NO WAY THAT IS TRUE.
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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
And is the idea that eventually you will achieve your goal of, for example, flying an aeroplane, or is it just too make you feel good and deal with everyday crap that comes your way?

Both.

Originally posted by: Shimraa

and your arguement is so holo there is a big difference between someone saying gays should be beheaded and left to rott in there own self-ruin, and saying being gay is morally wrong. no one will ever get fined for saying its morally wrong. and suggesting they would is the same thing as saying, oh we commit murders to death, now how long until we send those who attempt to murder to death. but still the bottem line is that the guy tried to put them down during their week, the week when they like to feel good about themselves, and that is wrong.
yes your right they struck first, but europe struck again and agian for hundreds of years.


Shimraa as much as I agree with you, and as much as I support gay rights and stuff, I gotta partially agree with Jedisage. Just because it's gay pride week it dosen't mean someone can't speak against it. He has the right to do it as much as the KKK has the right to manifestate (and they do). I think those people who quote the bible in order to bash and ridicule homosexuals are imbecile, ignorant, idiots who belong in the 17th century with their burning witches, BUT... they have the right to speak their minds as much as gay people have the right to marry and do what they want.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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in responce to starboy.

i agree with almost everything you said, if a christian expresses themselves in a way that wont be offensive its fine. had that guy said you guys know that the bible says being gay is wrong, you know that, i dont want you to go to hell so thats why i am telling you. it would have been fine. how saying it like he did was mean spirited, wrong, and regardless of the intent, any idoitic would have realized that the comments he made would put them down. and wouldnt you say that putting the down is a form of oppression.

second point, yes they teach evolution in school, yes because it occurs it is a scientific fact we see t every day, in a way its why we are getting super bugs (antibiotic resistant bacteria) because the bacteria have evolved to become resistant. but is it where life came from, we dont know there are theories, do they teach that in school, yes, but they very clearly tell studients that it is a theory, and the school that i went to spent equal time on Intelligent Design and the part of the theory of evolution that deals with species arising from other species.

and one misconseption that really bugs me, and if you cant get this in your head i not going to debate it with you, there are two types of evolution, micro evolution a la darwin, and macro-evolution a la, how eyes evolved, how species were created. the latter is where all the controvesy is, the former, is fact.
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repy to ric, yeah your right but my point is that if i started doing stuff like that on a christian holiday, what would happen to me. my point is not about having th right, its about facing ht consiquenses, the time in which he said, contributed just as much as the words did, to the oppression. if he had said it at anyother time of the year, gays would probably have shrugged it off, but that fact that this guy didnt even have the respect to either put it nicely or say it at a later date is just wrong. if you give respect you get it, and this guy didnt give it, so he didnt get it, its that simple.
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
repy to ric, yeah your right but my point is that if i started doing stuff like that on a christian holiday, what would happen to me. my point is not about having th right, its about facing ht consiquenses, the time in which he said, contributed just as much as the words did, to the oppression. if he had said it at anyother time of the year, gays would probably have shrugged it off, but that fact that this guy didnt even have the respect to either put it nicely or say it at a later date is just wrong. if you give respect you get it, and this guy didnt give it, so he didnt get it, its that simple.


Well, he is probably a simple minded man, brainwashed by his limited, narrow-viewed surroundings, and when is he going to atack his pseudo-enemy? On their pride day. It's understandable, and we should just pity him and let he speaks what he wants, the same way the KKK is allowed to do it's ridiculous public parades on MLK day. BUT IF he dares doing anything else than speaking, such as throwing things or beating, then he should be put away forever.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Shim, along the lines of what ric said. Its just words...how are 1 persons words oppressing the 'gays' even if said on gay pride week. what your arguing isnt about freedom of beliefs or speech. Your arguing that someone doesnt have the rights to voice an opinion against any other persons opinion. If someone calls me stupid i have 5 choices 1) cry about it 2) call them a stupid back 3) have the teacher give them detention (aka get the law involved to show im right) 4) do nothing and ignore them or 5) i can prove them wrong

obviously 4 and 5 are gonna be the most productive choices. Do you think that guy would have wrote/said what he did if he knew that everyone would just ignore it and it would have no effect at all? I seriously doubt it. What i find funny is your arguing one thing in this thread and then in another thread your saying things cause you know that they are pissing JediKev off just for the fact of pissing him off because your having girl troubles, and your best friend is not near you. Like Sessler said, Cry me a river.

Im not trying to defend JediKev, I honestly dont know why he's getting so worked up over what your saying, but to bring this thread on topic I hate people that bully/piss others off just cause they can or to make themselves feel better.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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it was pubished in a newpaper, if he had just said it nothing would have happened.

and i dont see how the joke i am pulling with kev has anything to do with this, i just joking around with him.

ok here is what makes me mad, Why does that guy feel that he must point out to the gays that the bible says its wrong, that has already been said hundreds if not thousands of times inthe past couple years, i pretty sure that gay people know what the christian community thinks, so why do the have the keep saying it. its the similar to when your doing something, and i tell you your wrong, you say ok but i still going to do it, then i dont accept that, so i say it again, and again, and again etc. this is very similar to the situation here, this guy knew(and if he didnt know he is very stupid) that gay people know that the christian faith doesnt aprove, why does he have to say it again in a very rude and hateful way during there week when they want to feel good about themselves. its one thing to say you dont approve once but christians have said it again and agian and this time the guy went to far and he got burned for it. maybe you guys think if you say it enough times they will stop, i dont know. you might say but then your denying us our freedom to express ourselves, that not true, you can teach your kids anything you want, say anything you want when you in church, yiu can even say what you want in public, but in public you cant state your veiws, in a hurtful way. and thats not just picking on christians, its the same for everyone and every religion.

on in addition to that last point, i find it funny how chirstians are the only ones having problems with this, you dont here anything like out of the sihk faith, or the islamic faith, or the hindi faith, and so on, and all of those faith beleive the same thing that homsexuality is wrong, but none of them have problems like this, why because they dont say things in ways that will be hurtful, or oppressive. my parents are sikh and both very anti-homosexual, but they dont go out of there way to pubilsh editorials saying that gays are bad and what not, they just believe it. and talk about it amoung themselves when they feel like it.
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
it was pubished in a newpaper, if he had just said it nothing would have happened.

and if the 'gays' had just ignored it nothing would have happened. yet they let his words affect them, thus giving him/his words power over them.

and i dont see how the joke i am pulling with kev has anything to do with this, i just joking around with him.


but does he know that? and is he just joking around in return or is he seriously pissed about it. if its the first then ignore my comment, but he seems to be a lot angrier than usual about it. and maybe im just missing the actual joke, cause i see nothing funny about the constant bickering about absolutly nothing.

"You can go about your business"

Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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read about you posted while i was editing, and yeah he is just joking, he has these ouburst every now and then with everyone. a guy just doesnt come ou of no where and say i hate you with out joking are. in these situations. its just funny between me and him, the joke is we are fighting over nothing, and i'll i am saying is things like indeed, how could that make him mad.

i should note at this point of the conversation i have no problems with christians, one of my closest friends is a devote one he's the ned flanders type of christian, only hes not a fruit , and also i do think that homosexuality is immoral and wrong. but i dont judge them by it, if thats how they want to do things fine, its known of my business.
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
on in addition to that last point, i find it funny how chirstians are the only ones having problems with this, you dont here anything like out of the sihk faith, or the islamic faith, or the hindi faith, and so on, and all of those faith beleive the same thing that homsexuality is wrong, but none of them have problems like this, why because they dont say things in ways that will be hurtful, or oppressive. my parents are sikh and both very anti-homosexual, but they dont go out of there way to pubilsh editorials saying that gays are bad and what not, they just believe it. and talk about it amoung themselves when they feel like it.


It was not entirely clear to me, are you homophobic (anti-gay) too?

Regarding that issue: I think it's absolutely ridiculous. OK I agree that homosexuals kissing and/or making out in public spaces is a little too much and that should be done privately, and that someone should wait until he or she is at least 18 until make up his mind about sexual preferences - someone younger is not yet mature to make this decision - BUT... they are not harming you. They are not harming anyone. They are not raping people, they are not doing anything wrong! Why should we condemn homosexuals, because in the Bible there's a passage about a city called Sodom that God supposedly destroyed? Well, there are passages in the Bible about God creating the world, who was there to watch it? How do we know for true? The bible and all the other holy books from other religions have much to teach us, BUT, unfortunally, much of men's problems such as homophobia eventually got their way into the bible. There's a passage in the bible about women being inferior to men and serving them, and never undressing their heads in public, claiming that above men there is God, and above women there are men, does that mean we should treat women as slaves? To me, racism and homophobia are ignorant prejudices perpertuated by week minded, if you are any one of those, I don't think it's your fault, it's probably because of your sorroundings and your education.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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shimraa is a gay.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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no i am no i am not homophobic. i was simply saying everything that you said ric, that they can do what ever they want as long as it doesnt effect me directly. e.g. if a gay guy came up and started hitting on me i would tell him to go away, if he continued i woudl get angry.
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Psst, psst, Kev, you're not helping.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I'm hate shimraa, he's pissed me off for the last time.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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But wasn't your theory in that other thread was that he was just trying to raise his post count? Besides, Shim just said he considered all that pointless bickering to be joking...

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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yes, but i'm ignoring him now
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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hes just a kid gaffer he still gets his mood swings here and there. hes just going through a phase.
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gaffertape, i'm pretty sure that it isn't over
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
athesist dont care thou warbler, for the most part if there is a prayer they will just stand there and think to themselves or something.

Then how come they constantly sue over it?

Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab

Exactly. Nobody is FORCING the an athiest to pray. If one doesn't want to pray, he/she can just standthere until it's over.

No, but they are forced to admit that they are an Athiest.
Originally posted by: JediSage

"To an unknown God..." please help our team win this game

How's that?

But he's not an unknown God to Christians, Muslims, Jews etc.... And he is certain not an unknown God to Athiest, he is a God that doesn't exist(to athiest) Also there are religions that have multiple Gods. Of these religions are few in number a very in the U.S.A. would practice such a religion. But low numbers doesn't mean they don't have the same right to their beliefs as the larger religions.

Originally posted by: JediSage

Again, taking the "establishment" clause and reading it as it is written, not "interpreted", the school(s) in question are NOT congress acting to establish a religion. No agency or person has the right to say that they may not pray before the game. How do we go from "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of a religion" to "Schools, government employees, Boy Scouts, the military...etc cannot pray or read the bible, or hand out tracts, or wear religious jewelry...."?

Have you never heard of the concept of seperation of Church and State?

Originally posted by: Starboy
Allowing Christians to pray before they play in a game will naturally make some people feel denounced and excluded. Putting a Christians into a science class teaching evolution will make them feel denounced and excluded. It is a consequence of freedom, it's something we all have to deal with.


*sigh* Of course Christians can pray at a school football game. I go to all of my hightschool's footballs and everytime before the game begins I say a silence prayer asking God to protect the players on both sides from being injured. But there a big difference between Christians indepently having a prayer(silently or in groups) and having an officially led prayer(one done over the loud speaker system and made part of the game like the playing of the National Athem) .

Originally posted by: Starboy

Now, for the Christian to force Jesus (a la the Inquisition) or for the doctor to force antibiotics down your throat IS oppressive. It isn't the doctor's decision whether or not you want to get better. He's just there to give his best judgment of the situation and use his knowledge to help you if you want it. I realize that a doctor is more trusted than a Christian today, but for a Christian who believes the bible, he acts from the same perspective as the doctor. It's just not heard from the same perspective.



I think there a difference, the Christian is acting on the beliefs of his faith. The doctor is acting on knowledge obtained via the scientific method. Of course, that doesn't give a doctor the right to force antibiotics down your throat.


Originally posted by: Starboy
ust because someone is praying on your campus or a teacher said Christianity is wrong doesn't mean your rights are being threatened.


It depends is the the prayer a simple indepentent prayer or is this prayer an offically sactioned school event? As for the the teacher saying Christianity is wrong, is the teacher
doing so as a teacher or as a person? A teacher as a person has the right to express their opinion, but a teacher doesn't and shouldn't have the right use/abuse their position to preach their believes.

Originally posted by: JediSage


A fine is a punishment for something for which you've been arrested. If I get a speeding ticket, I've been arrested for speeding. It doesn't matter how miniscule the crime or punishment is.


if you get a speeding ticket, you do not get arrested. Trust me I've gotten one and the cop did not put cuffs on me and did not haul me off to jail.

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ok i going to respectfully bow out of this debate, i cant effectively argue my point on a message board.
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ok, but I really don't see why can't make an effective argument on a message board. (no offense is intended by this)
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too many topics to cover, too many points to talk about, and too much repeation. normally i would be fine with it, but right now i just not in the mood to post 500 word posts. just for some one to continue arguing over it, i stated my position, anything more and i would start becoming a hypocrite, cause i would ber doing exactly what i dislike, i would be forcing my views on another.
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I hate the fact the nobody has posted to the "Things that we hate thread" in the last 24 hours.