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Post #1223700

Author
moviefreakedmind
Parent topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Link to post in topic
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1223700/action/topic#1223700
Date created
7-Jul-2018, 12:06 AM

Jay said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Jay said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Jay said:
“You’re quite obviously wrong, and I can’t be bothered to explain why.”

I feel the need to point out that you have done exactly this to me.

I don’t remember the exact post(s), but I’m guessing you and I had to go in circles before I ended up in that place; it probably wasn’t for lack of trying, and I probably only went there out of frustration. Frink defaults to that point of view. Not the same thing.

No, you repeatedly ignored almost everything I said about Jordan Peterson and then refused to acknowledge my actual arguments, only singling out specific sentences out of context and acting as though my entire posts were unreasonable based on that and then said you were no longer willing to address anything I said. So, you’re right, it’s not the same thing. You also employed some great ad-hominem attacks about how I’m irrational and don’t have a grasp on reality because I’m delusional and some other irrelevant bullshit that had nothing to do with what I was arguing. If you’re going to that, I’m all for it. I have no problem with such tactics, and I even employ them myself from time to time, but let’s at least admit that it happens. That’s all I ask.

We didn’t agree on JP because we have a fundamental disagreement on what he’s saying. I don’t think you’re representing his words accurately (not saying you’re being dishonest, we just have a very different take on his opinions), and if we can’t agree on what he meant as a baseline, there’s no point in furthering the discussion.

You singled out very specific things where I guess we didn’t agree on something he was saying, but you still never responded to my criticisms of his philosophy as a whole. Just because we don’t agree on what he said about makeup or enforced monogamy doesn’t mean that what I have to say about his take on religion is inaccurate. Also, doesn’t it say something bad about Peterson that no one ever has any clear idea of what he’s talking about? I think it’s primarily because he’s intentionally vague in what he says.

I found your previous post mostly reasonable except for the whole “the world is in the shitter” thing. I’m guessing we could pick any year on the calendar and had you been alive at that time, you would’ve been saying the world is in terrible shape. A negative outlook on life tends to do that.

If you read my post then you’d have seen that I acknowledged that. I just don’t like the method of stifling criticism of the world by bringing up that other times have been bad too. I don’t see how that’s helpful or even relevant. I’m also curious about what you disagree with me on aside from that since the rest of my what you call “mostly reasonable” post was dedicated to debunking the black Republican movement that you say is supposedly happening where black people are somehow coming to the baffling realization that the Democratic has made their lives worse over the last 60 years.

This is another area where we have problems establishing a baseline. I don’t see how any rational argument can be made that criticism of the world is being stifled at this point in time.

It may not be your intent, but that seems to be what you’re doing. Just because things have improved doesn’t mean that the world isn’t still failing.

Practically everything being thrown at us is bad news. Introducing the idea that things have been way worse in the past isn’t an attempt to rewrite the present; it’s an attempt to establish a baseline that many people have lost sight of.

I am actually pretty knowledgable about history. (Speaking of that, I’m still waiting for some kind of response to my point about how it actually is totally rational for black people to support the Democratic Party and how it has greatly improved their rights in this country in the past six decades. I’m genuinely curious about why the Democratic Party is somehow against black interests.) But bringing up the fact that things were worse in the past doesn’t mean that things aren’t still a disaster now. Just because something was up in flames in the past but isn’t now, doesn’t mean that it isn’t still charred and burned and blistering.

Your words:

Uh, everything is awful and the world is pretty much in the toilet.

That’s patently absurd. Where do we go from there?

Is it really that absurd? I gave you a lot of reasons as to why the world is a disaster right now. The environment is being trashed and by and large no one in power cares, we have a president that is more incompetent than any in the last nearly 150 years. I’m not willing to say that Trump is worse than Andrew Johnson, but at least every other man to hold the office since the nation’s founding has been literate and familiar with the workings of government. There’re fascist parties on the rise in Europe, Islamic extremism is on the rise in Europe and almost everywhere else too, the Middle East is fucked beyond any recognition, Israel-Palestine is a nightmare, Russia is as much of a totalitarian shithole as it was back when it was the USSR, the third-world is still as exploited as it’s been in the last couple decades, East Asia is still as tense as it’s been for decades, the middle class in America is shrinking and the divide between rich and poor is growing (that’s a fact, just because you say you hear it after each election doesn’t mean that it’s not true), etc. etc. There’s reason to not be depressed about the state of the world.

I don’t think the world is at its worst. I think the worst of the world is on the news and social media 24 hours a day, everything has become politicized, and it’s eating away at people’s sense of well-being. I decided not to be a victim of that mentality any longer. The truth, despite all the imperfect things about this world, is that this is probably the best time to be alive in human history.

Are you going to address anything that I actually said about why the world is a disaster overall? Regardless of whether it’s the best time to be alive, which I agree that it is, the world is still largely in very poor hands.

I’ve heard this argument from both sides of the fence after every election. We’re all still here somehow.

It’s been two years since the election, I’m still talking about it. Other than having an illiterate reality TV star for president now, you’re right that the complaints are largely the same all the time, but that’s because these same issues have been growing and been left unaddressed for so long. And I never said we weren’t still here. The reason I said you’re stifling discussion is because you’re ignoring all of my completely rational reasons for believing that the world is in the toilet right now and instead are focusing on the fact that humanity still exists and things have improved in some countries over the years so therefore, apparently, we can’t come to the conclusion that the world is still on the brink of disaster. Perhaps it’d be more constructive if I discarded my characteristically ineloquent language in favor of a phrase like “the world is on the brink of disaster.”

I’m not trying to insult you.

I perceive insults in a lot of things, brother, so just have at it. I’ll live.

It’s just difficult to fashion an argument against an overwhelmingly negative worldview that I fundamentally disagree with.

Your posts aren’t as nihilistic as mine, but they are pretty negative too. You seem to think that huge swaths of Americans, and particularly people posting in this thread are brainwashed by “media,” presumably leftist media, which ironically is a right-wing media talking point. You seem to think that everyone is shut down by cries of racism and sexism. That’s all fine if that’s your perception of the political discourse, but I’m just saying that it’s not exactly a ray of sunshine either.

I get the impression you aren’t going to budge on the idea that “the world is pretty much in the toilet”. Am I wrong?

Probably not, but I would be curious to know why the world is supposedly in okay shape, especially as it relates to those incredibly pressing issues. I’m also still curious about the “red wave” for lack of a better term that you expect in the black community. I probably won’t agree, but I’m curious as to why you think it’s going to happen and why the Democratic Party has supposedly been unhelpful to black people for the last six decades. Let me turn that question around on you, are you going to have your mind changed by any of my leftist SJW craziness arguments? I don’t get the impression that you’re going to budge either.