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4K77 - Released — Page 9

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Harmy’s post earlier about the comparison between the 4k and the 1080 being only more detailed in the dirt and scratches had me digging around for resolution information. I know for example that the theoretical information contained in a 70mm film frame is around 6K. So, the question is, how much resolvable information is actually in a film print, like this 35mm IB tech print? What I found is a suggestion that the negative is very high resolution and then each subsequent generation from the negative (interpositive, print) loses resolution and therefore information. This would be like taping a tape of a tape - analog loses signal over generations. So, 4k might actually be overkill for this print in terms of resolution, but a UHD version of the 4K could really show off the color space where 1080 just can’t. Anyway, just thought I would post the relevant link, etc. https://www.quora.com/Does-4K-resolution-approach-the-resolution-of-a-35mm-film-print

By the way, I love this print. Projected it last night…

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misternewton said:

Harmy’s post earlier about the comparison between the 4k and the 1080 being only more detailed in the dirt and scratches had me digging around for resolution information. I know for example that the theoretical information contained in a 70mm film frame is around 6K. So, the question is, how much resolvable information is actually in a film print, like this 35mm IB tech print? What I found is a suggestion that the negative is very high resolution and then each subsequent generation from the negative (interpositive, print) loses resolution and therefore information. This would be like taping a tape of a tape - analog loses signal over generations. So, 4k might actually be overkill for this print in terms of resolution, but a UHD version of the 4K could really show off the color space where 1080 just can’t. Anyway, just thought I would post the relevant link, etc. https://www.quora.com/Does-4K-resolution-approach-the-resolution-of-a-35mm-film-print

By the way, I love this print. Projected it last night…

How can I be able to give it a look? I have a 4K television waiting for me out there in the living room.

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misternewton said:

Harmy’s post earlier about the comparison between the 4k and the 1080 being only more detailed in the dirt and scratches had me digging around for resolution information. I know for example that the theoretical information contained in a 70mm film frame is around 6K. So, the question is, how much resolvable information is actually in a film print, like this 35mm IB tech print? What I found is a suggestion that the negative is very high resolution and then each subsequent generation from the negative (interpositive, print) loses resolution and therefore information. This would be like taping a tape of a tape - analog loses signal over generations. So, 4k might actually be overkill for this print in terms of resolution, but a UHD version of the 4K could really show off the color space where 1080 just can’t. Anyway, just thought I would post the relevant link, etc. https://www.quora.com/Does-4K-resolution-approach-the-resolution-of-a-35mm-film-print

By the way, I love this print. Projected it last night…

The answer is… it depends.

I have had 35mm prints where you need to scan in 10K to capture all of the resolution on the print. I have had others where 2.5K is overkill, the resolution is just not there on the print.

Yes, negatives hold way more colour and resolution and dynamic range than a release print, which has often done through multiple generation losses along the way (Some prints come straight from the negative, and with digital you can go straight to a print directly) , so it really does depend a lot on what you have.

With the main IB print that was used for the 4K77 restoration, it was scanned on a 4K Scanity, but the horizontal resolution on the scan was less than 4K as it included the soundtrack and sprocket areas. Also the Scanity uses a line sensor, so mechanical tolerance issues in its drive mechanism lead to lower resolution captures than on full frame sensor scanners. The Scanity is designed for negs, not prints, so it also loses out a bit in shadow detail and colour capture vs more modern scanners.

So in this case, there probably isn’t much difference between 2.5K and 4K for the scan that is being used, but having the scan in 4K allows better granularity when stabilising and doing repairs, but the end result will basically look identical if you rendered it out to 1080P, and then took that 1080P result and upscaled it to UHD.
Yes, a wider colour gamut than Rec709 gives some advantages if you use the wider colour space that the newer UHD formats offer.

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I just watched about half of this, and I’m really impressed! I don’t have a 4k tv or anything, but the 1080p version still looks really good! Great work to everyone involved!

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corellian77 said:

jm9760 said:

Anyone figure out a definitive way to fix the jerky/choppy playback? I’m trying to play the file on my Apple TV 4K via Plex. I’ve tried remuxing it with both MKVToolNix and MP4Tools. Neither worked…

I’m streaming from my iMac to my 4th generation Apple TV via Plex without issue… I can take a look at my Plex settings when I get home if you’d like to compare.

Out of curiosity, it wouldn’t be an issue with your router, would it? I used to experience notable buffering times when streaming large movie files or streaming trailers via the Apple Trailers app before upgrading my router.

That’s so weird… And you’re using the 4k version of the film not 1080, right?

I don’t think it’s a buffering issue. It does take a while to buffer initially so I get the spinning wheel for a bit, but once it starts the playback is like stuttery. It not stopping and starting but just not playing back smoothly. It’s hard to explain without seeing it.

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corellian77 said:

jm9760 said:

Anyone figure out a definitive way to fix the jerky/choppy playback? I’m trying to play the file on my Apple TV 4K via Plex. I’ve tried remuxing it with both MKVToolNix and MP4Tools. Neither worked…

I’m streaming from my iMac to my 4th generation Apple TV via Plex without issue… I can take a look at my Plex settings when I get home if you’d like to compare.

Out of curiosity, it wouldn’t be an issue with your router, would it? I used to experience notable buffering times when streaming large movie files or streaming trailers via the Apple Trailers app before upgrading my router.

Does your TV do 24P? It works on my Apple TV @ 24Hz smoothly.

Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!

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jm9760 said:

corellian77 said:

jm9760 said:

Anyone figure out a definitive way to fix the jerky/choppy playback? I’m trying to play the file on my Apple TV 4K via Plex. I’ve tried remuxing it with both MKVToolNix and MP4Tools. Neither worked…

I’m streaming from my iMac to my 4th generation Apple TV via Plex without issue… I can take a look at my Plex settings when I get home if you’d like to compare.

Out of curiosity, it wouldn’t be an issue with your router, would it? I used to experience notable buffering times when streaming large movie files or streaming trailers via the Apple Trailers app before upgrading my router.

That’s so weird… And you’re using the 4k version of the film not 1080, right?

I don’t think it’s a buffering issue. It does take a while to buffer initially so I get the spinning wheel for a bit, but once it starts the playback is like stuttery. It not stopping and starting but just not playing back smoothly. It’s hard to explain without seeing it.

Yes, I’m streaming the 4K version, but to a 4th generation Apple TV (which I just learned caps out at 1080p) which itself is hooked up to a 1080p TV, so I guess our situations are not as similar as I had thought. That being said, I did bring a copy of 4K77 over to a friend’s house who does have a 4K Apple TV, a 4K TV, and Plex, and it streamed just fine there too.

If your router’s not the issue, could it be a transcoder setting in Plex? In Settings > Server > Transcoder, I have the following settings:

  • Transcoder quality: Automatic
  • Transcoder default throttle buffer: 60
  • Background transcoding X264 preset: Very fast (although, given that this is an x265 file, I suppose this wouldn’t matter)
  • Maximum simultaneous video transcode: Unlimited

Also, under Settings > Web > Debug, I have both the “Direct Play” and “Direct Stream” boxes checked, which from what I understand will allow Plex to avoid converting video or audio streams unnecessarily.

“It’s a lot of fun… it’s a lot of fun to watch Star Wars.” – Bill Moyers

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Ah, it would make sense to download the 1080P version then 😃

Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
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Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!

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Handman said:

towne32 said:

Handman said:

towne32 said:

Handman said:

I’ve tried to get the 4K version running on MPC-HC with madVR, but whatever I do, I get really choppy playback. Any pointers, or should I just download the 1080p version?

I’ve got a new 4K TV I’d love to play this on, and although it’s being said there is little difference between the two, I’d love to watch it in its native resolution.

What are your computer specs?

Windows 8.1
CPU: Intel 8-core i7-4710HQ @ 2.50 GHz
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 860M
HDD: 1TB HGST HTS721010A9E630
RAM: 12 GB

It is a laptop, as well. Is it my GPU?

I believe so. I don’t think it supports hardware accelerated HEVC playback.

Yikes.

dahmage said:

Handman said:

I’ve tried to get the 4K version running on MPC-HC with madVR, but whatever I do, I get really choppy playback. Any pointers, or should I just download the 1080p version?

I’ve got a new 4K TV I’d love to play this on, and although it’s being said there is little difference between the two, I’d love to watch it in its native resolution.

Grab mkvtoolnix and remux the file, other people have had success with smoother playback after doing that.

I’ll try this, thanks!

In light of all the comments saying there is no difference between the 4K version and the HD version, I just downloaded the HD version. Perfect playback, and I’m glad I don’t seem to be missing anything.

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 (Edited)

Regarding the stuttering problems some people have had with 4K77, I am reminded of an issue I had with NJVC’s 50GB bluray of Harmy’s SW DeEd on my standalone player. I noticed some weird stuttering in the video whereby it seemed to be losing a couple of frames each second, but the audio sounded fine.

I eventually discovered that by switching to an audio track other than the first (default) one, the video problems went away. It might be worth a try with the UHD 4K77 file, in case the underlying problem is actually with the software struggling to read the audio track at the expense of messing up the video.

(I realise this is a long shot!)

Bluto

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Bluto said:

Regarding the stuttering problems some people have had with 4K77, I am reminded of an issue I had with NJVC’s 50GB bluray of Harmy’s SW DeEd on my standalone player. I noticed some weird stuttering in the video whereby it seemed to be losing a couple of frames each second, but the audio sounded fine.

I eventually discovered that by switching to an audio track other than the first (default) one, the video problems went away. It might be worth a try with the UHD 4K77 file, in case the underlying problem is actually with the software struggling to read the audio track at the expense of messing up the video.

(I realise this is a long shot!)

Bluto

Appreciate the theory, but just tried a couple of the alternate tracks and still no dice =/. So weird that there doesn’t seem to be any sort of pattern for who it plays properly for and who it doesn’t…

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i’ve been downloading the 1080p version for the past 30 hours - should be done by tomorrow morning. i’m excited!

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Hi all,
I have had great luck playing the 4K version on my Sony UBP-X800 4K Blu-ray player via a portable hard drive into its front USB port. The DTS-HD Master Audio tracks worked perfectly on my surround sound receiver. It also plays just fine on my iMac via MPV player. So if anyone is having problems playing the video, you might want to try these methods. 😃

What can you get a Wookiee for (Life Day) Christmas when he already owns a comb?

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Could anyone point me in the direction on how to get the 1080p version of this? I’d really like to see this!

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 (Edited)

rainbow battle kid said:

any chance of someone making an “a new hope” crawl for this?

I doubt it, if they did it would no longer be a theatrical preservation.
To me, that was the first warning shot across the bow that Georgie was not
content and would alter the film further. Every time I see it I get a little angry.

I thought I recognized your foul stench when I entered this forum!

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Faithwyn said:

rainbow battle kid said:

any chance of someone making an “a new hope” crawl for this?

I doubt it, if they did it would no longer be a theatrical preservation.
To me, that was the first warning shot across the bow that Georgie was not
content and would alter the film further. Every time I see it I get a little angry.

That’s a bit silly.

TN1 had it as an extra in their Silver Screen Edition, I don’t see why it shouldn’t be an option. Though nothing gets me more excited than seeing the original crawl.

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Faithwyn said:

rainbow battle kid said:

any chance of someone making an “a new hope” crawl for this?

I doubt it, if they did it would no longer be a theatrical preservation.
To me, that was the first warning shot across the bow that Georgie was not
content and would alter the film further. Every time I see it I get a little angry.

Agreed, completely. Trying for a little revisionism is like trying to get a little pregnant 😉

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Hey so I’ve been trying to find this, but have no idea where you guys are getting it.

If someone wouldn’t mind helping out via PM it’d be appreciated. I can provide proof that I’ve bought the official releases in the past.

Only need the HD version.

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Faithwyn said:

rainbow battle kid said:

any chance of someone making an “a new hope” crawl for this?

I doubt it, if they did it would no longer be a theatrical preservation.

Except that the revised crawl first appeared in theaters in 1981, so it’s still a theatrical preservation. A 1080p scan of the 1981 crawl does exist, and the 1977 crawl in 4K77 is an upscale from 1080p itself, so the 1981 crawl would just need some extra cleanup and color balancing to fit.

I don’t see why it shouldn’t be an option, especially since the 1981 version is not represented on DVD or Blu-ray (the SE crawl is a 1997 recomp that uses the 1977 starfield). So it’s still restoring something we don’t already have in proper quality.

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Except that the revised crawl first appeared in theaters in 1981, so it’s still a theatrical preservation.

This is a 1977 theatrical preservation. It’s not 4k81 or 4k97 or any other revisionist versions.

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MrPib said:

Except that the revised crawl first appeared in theaters in 1981, so it’s still a theatrical preservation.

This is a 1977 theatrical preservation. It’s not 4k81 or 4k97 or any other revisionist versions.

Why not both? It’s just the crawl. I like options.

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This is a 1977 theatrical preservation. It’s not 4k81 or 4k97 or any other revisionist versions.
Why not both? It’s just the crawl. I like options.

Because it’s time taken away from 4k80 and 4k83, and perhaps other original preservations.

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MrPib said:

This is a 1977 theatrical preservation. It’s not 4k81 or 4k97 or any other revisionist versions.
Why not both? It’s just the crawl. I like options.

Because it’s time taken away from 4k80 and 4k83, and perhaps other original preservations.

Dude, chill out.

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MrPib said:

This is a 1977 theatrical preservation. It’s not 4k81 or 4k97 or any other revisionist versions.
Why not both? It’s just the crawl. I like options.

Because it’s time taken away from 4k80 and 4k83, and perhaps other original preservations.

It really isn’t, because the 1981 crawl is already scanned.

Don’t know why you’re so full of vitriol at the mere suggestion that some would like the 1981 crawl preserved as well. It’s not like it’s going to affect you in any way if you don’t want it.