Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo — Page 748

Ryan-SWI said:

moviefreakedmind said:

You obviously don’t because Jordan Peterson is one of those extremists on the right

Yes I remember where I said I was Jordan Peterson’s greatest fan, but clearly it’s all or nothing isn’t it? Either you’re madly in love with them and idolise them like a God or you think they’re Hitler’s second coming, of course.

Never said that.

Tearing someone down and shitting all over them because they have a terrible political opinion is completely rational.

Nope. The extreme right is more dangerous than the extreme left in this country.

I don’t care what anyone on either side calls me, I care about what each advocates and does. The mainstream right advocates and implements far more horrific policies than the mainstream left. I’m not talking about radicals.

Grow up.

What is unreasonable about what I said? Also, why would I grow up? Life is way more fun when you don’t grow up.

I don’t agree with a lot of your or anyone here’s viewpoints but I don’t feel the need to personally attack anyone for daring to not share my beliefs.

I didn’t personally attack anyone.

Either you’re extremely immature or insecure about your own viewpoints. Regardless you’re not worth discussing anything with when I was only trying to have a civil discussion on this fancy website called a forum

I may be immature and insecure, but I was civil. You ignored most of my points anyway, so who’s really the one that’s trying to have a discussion? I actually respond to people when I talk to them. I don’t just poke at them and assume they’re brainwashed by the media or assume that all sides are equally bad no matter what.

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan-SWI said:

moviefreakedmind said:

The idea that women who wear makeup are hypocrites for not wanting to be sexually harassed is misogynist, and it’s pathetic, and it’s disgusting.

Yeah, it is. Nobody should be harassed, sexually or otherwise.

But we don’t live on fantasy island.

Should you walk around Detroit in the middle of the night in a fancy suit carrying a briefcase full of cash? No. Why? You’ll get mugged. Should you get mugged? No. Do you deserve it? No. But you will, and you know why? There are terrible people in the world and no amount of bitching about it and activist movements will stop people from being terrible. Anyone with half a lick of sense knows that doing certain things are going to set off shitty people who want to do shitty things to you.

So yeah, if a woman spends three hours on makeup before work dolling herself up, wears a sexy dress and god knows what, she’s going to get attention. And she knows it.

Does she deserve negative attention? No, nobody does, but she’ll get it, and hopefully the ass-holes perpetrating it get reprimanded. But it won’t stop her getting it again in the future.

Being an asshole is gender-less but you can typically avoid attracting assholes by not walking around Detroit with a briefcase of cash.

Calling people who wear makeup “hypocrites” is a stretch and I don’t think that’s the right word to use, but I get what he’s at least trying to say.

Wow.

You can try and qualify it all you like, but you just made the “she was asking for it” defense of harassment (and assault/rape, by the way, since that’s often where this goes). Disgusting.

Funny last time we discussed Peterson I referenced an article by Mayim Bialik. If I recall correctly you made some sarcastic remark suggesting her article was totally different and I was doing something untoward in raising it.

She wrote basically the same thing Ryan is saying. I can’t understand your different reaction. Your reaction now is completely silly. Ryan is extraordinarily clear there is no justification for harassment/assault.

I know you don’t like this recognition of reality, neither does Ryan. I don’t see Ryan saying women need to do anything differently but rather recognizing an unfortunate risk.

That said, I think it is easy to overstate the issue too. Women are harassed without doing much of anything to “doll” themselves up.

I find it amazing that Republicans still try to blame movies and video games for school shootings. Remind me again of how these people are the pro-freedom of speech side?

moviefreakedmind said:

I find it amazing that Republicans still try to blame movies and video games for school shootings. Remind me again of how these people are the pro-freedom of speech side?

When they try to ban them, let me know.

The argument that troubled individuals engaging in simulated violence can lead to real life violence is plausible.

There is something to be said for the effect of a poor mental diet on one’s choices.

Ryan-SWI said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I was civil.

Clearly. I could have berated you earlier in the conversation but instead tried to find common ground and point out what I agreed with instead of letting it divulge into some stupid back and forth that changed neither of our minds.

Who did I berate? And I don’t believe there’s any reason to find common ground on some topics. There is no common ground on some topics, at least not in my opinion.

Your response? To go on some weird rant about half the country having terrible opinions and negatively marking people with dissenting opinions to your own.

It wasn’t a rant. I’m also sure that far more than half the country has terrible opinions. I didn’t mark them negatively because their opinions are different than mine. I marked them negatively because their opinions are retrograde. If someone disagrees with me on tax-exempt statuses, I’m not going to mark them negatively.

That’s why I told you to grow up.

I’m never going to “grow up”. I’m not impressed with the caliber of what passes for an adult in this country.

Mrebo said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I find it amazing that Republicans still try to blame movies and video games for school shootings. Remind me again of how these people are the pro-freedom of speech side?

When they try to ban them, let me know.

When government officials claim that we need to stop mass shootings and then point the finger at the media, it’s dangerous and can have a chilling effect.

The argument that troubled individuals engaging in simulated violence can lead to real life violence is plausible.

It’s still nonsense. The best-selling games in the world are violent, and we only see these mass-shootings in the US. It doesn’t happen in any other civilized country that has the exact same games we have. It’s just a way to redirect away from guns, which is the real issue.

There is something to be said for the effect of a poor mental diet on one’s choices.

It doesn’t matter, though, because we all have the right to a poor mental diet.

Ryan-SWI said:

I didn’t mark them negatively because their opinions are different than mine.

I marked them negatively because their opinions are retrograde.

Imagine being that full of yourself.

I’m not full of myself. I’ve been cripplingly depressed for over 50% of my life. I just don’t have the what I consider to be irrational qualm over calling someone retrograde for blaming victims of workplace sexual harassment over their makeup choices. Also, you selectively edited my post in order to make me sound more obnoxious, so thanks for that.

I feel this issue is very simple once three basic facts are acknowledged:

1. Firstly, in no situation, is there ANY justification for sexual harassment. Someone could be walking around naked and it makes things no different. Sexual harassment/assault are never “more justified”, and if someone tries to suggest that because their clothing/makeup choices were part of the blame then that is a clear misogyny alarm.

2. Secondly, everyone is well aware that there are certain clothes and makeup choices someone can make, which might draw people’s attention somewhere. Those decisions might raise the attractiveness of the individual. Typically they do since it is the purpose of sexy dresses and certain makeup.

3. And lastly, both points 1 and 2 can both be true at the same time. We can acknowledge what makeup/clothing choices can do to the appearance of someone while still establishing the fact that any form of sexual harassment/assault is unacceptable REGARDLESS of what someone is wearing.

All in all, we all can’t delude ourselves to the effect of makeup/clothing choices. And we can agree to regard all sexual harassment crimes as equally terrible.

Ryan-SWI said:

I selectively edited nothing, that is literally what you wrote and it’s right above to see.

You cut out the part where I said I wouldn’t label someone retrograde over taxes, which debunks your claim that I just negatively mark everyone who differs in opinion than me. It’s only on the really shitty opinions that I mark people negatively for, not simple disagreements, but you ignored that. By the way, you mark people negatively for shitty opinions too. At least I hope you do. If someone was of the opinion that drunk driving should be legalized, you’d probably consider that person’s opinion to be terrible. There’s such a thing as a terrible opinion, you know.

We’ve all got shit going on, which is why I was trying to find common ground and be amicable to an extent. I’m not going to continue trying to do so when you label other people’s opinions “terrible” for not being your own and try to tear me down when I was just trying to be friendly in a pretty unfriendly thread.

I already debunked the “other people’s opinions are ‘terrible’ for not being” mine thing so I’ll skip that, but I don’t remember you being particularly friendly. You just defended the sexual harassment guy. I guess that isn’t necessarily unfriendly, but I certainly wouldn’t describe it as an attempt to be friendly to me specifically. I never tried tearing you down, either.

If you’re telling the truth one would think you’d put a bit of thought behind your words before mouthing off at everyone who disagrees with you. I don’t have an issue with you or your opinions as they don’t affect me, but after this I’m not going to keep talking to you because I don’t enjoy pointless hostility.

I don’t know what I’m supposed be “telling the truth” about, but I didn’t mouth off at anybody. I suppose I’m fine with this ending, though, since you consistently attempt to mark me negatively as aggressive and mean and all that. I thought those were leftist tactics. Oh well.

moviefreakedmind said:

Mrebo said:

There is something to be said for the effect of a poor mental diet on one’s choices.

It doesn’t matter, though, because we all have the right to a poor mental diet.

What if poor mental diets do lead to harmful action? There is the argument that pornography causes men to have unrealistic expectations and act in harmful ways to fulfill them. Is there ever a point where society’s needs overwhelm an individual’s right to shoot virtual people and look at sexual imagery?

My mom once asked me if my comic books were causing my depression. That was 2017. The Wookiee is correct.

Mrebo said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I find it amazing that Republicans still try to blame movies and video games for school shootings. Remind me again of how these people are the pro-freedom of speech side?

When they try to ban them, let me know.

The argument that troubled individuals engaging in simulated violence can lead to real life violence is plausible.

There is something to be said for the effect of a poor mental diet on one’s choices.

And yet many who “engage in simluated violence” are still mentally healthy. Not to mention people in other developed countries play the same games and watch the same movies, and yet they don’t have these problems to the degree that we do.

People used to say Harry Potter promoted witchcraft, and before that it was Dungeons and Dragons. Before people attacked video games and TV for the degradation of youth, it was comic books.

Are you going to say I have a propensity for violence in part because I have amassed a combined library of 420 video games over the course of my lifetime? Does it say something sinister about me that my preferred class in Mass Effect and Skyrim tends to be the sneaking sniper?

I don’t even own a gun, and if I had one it would be a Sig Sauer P239 or an FN P90 purely for nerdy reasons (ie. because they feature on NCIS and Stargate SG-1, respectively.)

People are just looking for a scapegoat by blaming video games. They’re not interested in helping to fix anything.

SilverWook said:

chyron8472 said:

Mrebo said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I find it amazing that Republicans still try to blame movies and video games for school shootings. Remind me again of how these people are the pro-freedom of speech side?

When they try to ban them, let me know.

The argument that troubled individuals engaging in simulated violence can lead to real life violence is plausible.

There is something to be said for the effect of a poor mental diet on one’s choices.

And yet many who “engage in simluated violence” are still mentally healthy. Not to mention people in other developed countries play the same games and watch the same movies, and yet they don’t have these problems to the degree that we do.

People used to say Harry Potter promoted witchcraft, and before that it was Dungeons and Dragons. Before people attacked video games and TV for the degradation of youth, it was comic books.

People are just looking for a scapegoat. They’re not interested in helping to fix anything.

Are you going to say I have a propensity for violence in part because I have amassed a combined library of 420 video games over the course of my lifetime? Does it say something sinister about me that my preferred class in Mass Effect and Skyrim tends to be the sneaking sniper?

And before videogames, Pinball was going to lead innocent youths into a life of gambling and crime. Not sure what was the scapegoat before that because I’m not that old! 😉

And the rationale is still the same. They’re just looking for a scapegoat. They don’t give a crap about fixing anything at all.

Crazy idea: maybe it’s up to all of us to promote a culture with less sexual harrassment no matter what someone is wearing. Maybe raise kids with better ideas of autonomy, consent, and respect? Idk, just a thought.