Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo — Page 747

Jay said:

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

moviefreakedmind said:

It was an insult towards me actually. All my posts on Peterson have been eloquent and reasonable. I don’t care anymore because you admitted yourself that you’re unwilling to read them, but here’s the part of the VICE interview on makeup. It’s at about the five and a half minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsz0DHwzAvc

When asked if he thinks women who want to be taken seriously in the workplace and who wear makeup are being hypocritical, Peterson says yes. I don’t agree with him, but at least he answered directly and didn’t waffle or equivocate, which is what he’s often accused of doing.

But that’s an insane stance. Being direct about is irrelevant IMO.

It’s definitely an extremely conservative viewpoint.

If conservative = misogynist, sure.

Thinking that makeup isn’t necessary in the workplace is misogynist. Ha, yeah, okay.

This is why words don’t mean anything anymore, the supposed “blue wave” coming this November is going to fall flat on its face, and Trump stands a good chance of being reelected in 2020.

Hopefully he’ll be able to lose the popular vote by less than 2.8 million votes this time. Maybe he’ll get impeached for his obstruction of justice before 2020 though. Also, way to deliberately misread Frink’s post. It’s misogynist to think that serious women who wear makeup are hypocrites, not that makeup is unnecessary.

Jay said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Jay said:

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

moviefreakedmind said:

It was an insult towards me actually. All my posts on Peterson have been eloquent and reasonable. I don’t care anymore because you admitted yourself that you’re unwilling to read them, but here’s the part of the VICE interview on makeup. It’s at about the five and a half minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsz0DHwzAvc

When asked if he thinks women who want to be taken seriously in the workplace and who wear makeup are being hypocritical, Peterson says yes. I don’t agree with him, but at least he answered directly and didn’t waffle or equivocate, which is what he’s often accused of doing.

But that’s an insane stance. Being direct about is irrelevant IMO.

It’s definitely an extremely conservative viewpoint.

If conservative = misogynist, sure.

Thinking that makeup isn’t necessary in the workplace is misogynist. Ha, yeah, okay.

This is why words don’t mean anything anymore, the supposed “blue wave” coming this November is going to fall flat on its face, and Trump stands a good chance of being reelected in 2020.

Hopefully he’ll be able to lose the popular vote by less than 2.8 million votes this time.

A win by Electoral College without the popular vote is still a win. I guess some people haven’t figured that out yet.

I’m well aware. I didn’t say otherwise. I just think it’s wonderful that Trump lost the popular vote. And I just find it funny because I guarantee you that almost none of Trump’s supporters would have accepted it if he won the popular vote by 3 million and lost the electoral college. He certainly wouldn’t have conceded as quickly as Hillary did.

Maybe he’ll get impeached for his obstruction of justice before 2020 though.

Entirely possible, but banking on that happening could also be a waste of time.

I’m not banking on anything, I just think it’d be wonderful to see that happen.

Also, way to deliberately misread Frink’s post. It’s misogynist to think that serious women who wear makeup are hypocrites, not that makeup is unnecessary.

Why is it misogynist? What’s the purpose of makeup in a professional setting? Can you articulate a response?

Unfortunately, looking more attractive is still an important in factor in the work place, especially when promotions are up for grabs. Physical appearance is a big part of looking professional. Also, maybe they just want to. I, unlike Jordan Peterson, am all about people doing what they want to do regardless of what anyone thinks.

All that is actually not relevant, though, because what is misogynist isn’t being opposed to makeup, it’s believing that sexual harassment is in any way justified because of makeup.

Interviewer: “Do you feel like a serious woman who does not want sexual harassment in the workplace, do you feel like if she wears makeup in the workplace, she is somewhat being hypocritical?”
Jordan Peterson: “Yeah. I do think that.”

That’s misogynist. I know the right-wing likes to pretend that any and all claims of misogyny are just made up and fake, but this is a clear example of cut and dry misogyny. But beyond that, it’s a clear example of cut and dry stupidity. Something tells me that if some guy found Jordan Peterson’s sexy-ass suit attractive and went up and made unwarranted sexual advances on him, Peterson would not be too pleased. And he shouldn’t be, but by his logic, he’d just be a hypocrite for that.

The idea that women who wear makeup are hypocrites for not wanting to be sexually harassed is misogynist, and it’s pathetic, and it’s disgusting. That’s a fact that civilized men everywhere can agree on. Jordan Peterson is a disgusting and backwards individual for believing that a person’s appearance makes them a hypocrite for not wanting to be sexually harassed. That statement may trigger the fans, but that’s okay, because I don’t care who I trigger.

Ryan-SWI said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I know the right-wing likes to pretend that any and all claims of misogyny are just made up and fake

Generalising is always a good way to have a dialogue I hear.

It’s a fair generalization in this case.

It’s more the issue of it being turned into a loaded buzzword on the internet.

Which I didn’t do.

Ryan-SWI said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Which I didn’t do.

I also never said you did.

Then why say it at all if it isn’t relevant?

Ryan-SWI said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I know the right-wing likes to pretend that any and all claims of misogyny are just made up and fake

Generalising is always a good way to have a dialogue I hear.

It’s more the issue of it being turned into a loaded buzzword on the internet.

The idea that women who wear makeup are hypocrites for not wanting to be sexually harassed is misogynist, and it’s pathetic, and it’s disgusting.

Yeah, it is. Nobody should be harassed, sexually or otherwise.

But we don’t live on fantasy island.

Should you walk around Detroit in the middle of the night in a fancy suit carrying a briefcase full of cash? No. Why? You’ll get mugged. Should you get mugged? No. Do you deserve it? No. But you will, and you know why? There are terrible people in the world and no amount of bitching about it and activist movements will stop people from being terrible. Anyone with half a lick of sense knows that doing certain things are going to set off shitty people who want to do shitty things to you.

It isn’t activism, it’s having effective HR departments at work. Men get sexually harassed too, so even if we were all being totally selfish here, this would benefit us too. Having zero-tolerance for sexual harassment won’t effect you if you don’t repeatedly make horribly unwarranted advances toward people.

So yeah, if a woman spends three hours on makeup before work dolling herself up, wears a sexy dress and god knows what, she’s going to get attention. And she knows it.

Does she deserve negative attention? No, nobody does, but she’ll get it, and hopefully the assholes perpetrating it get reprimanded. But it won’t stop her getting it again in the future.

The three hours, getting dolled up, wearing sexy dresses, and god knows what else are all your additions to this. Peterson was talking about makeup in general. Even if I conceded that such behavior makes you a hypocrite, which I don’t, it’s still not representative of all working women that wear makeup.

Being an asshole is gender-less but you can typically avoid attracting assholes by not walking around Detroit with a briefcase of cash.

Detroit is a shithole that’s totally unsafe. We’re talking about professional work environments. That’s a false equivalence and you know it.

Calling people who wear makeup “hypocrites” is a stretch and I don’t think that’s the right word to use, but I get what he’s at least trying to say.

I get what he’s trying to say too and it’s incredibly unintelligent and backwards.

TV’s Frink said:

Ryan-SWI said:

moviefreakedmind said:

The idea that women who wear makeup are hypocrites for not wanting to be sexually harassed is misogynist, and it’s pathetic, and it’s disgusting.

Yeah, it is. Nobody should be harassed, sexually or otherwise.

But we don’t live on fantasy island.

Should you walk around Detroit in the middle of the night in a fancy suit carrying a briefcase full of cash? No. Why? You’ll get mugged. Should you get mugged? No. Do you deserve it? No. But you will, and you know why? There are terrible people in the world and no amount of bitching about it and activist movements will stop people from being terrible. Anyone with half a lick of sense knows that doing certain things are going to set off shitty people who want to do shitty things to you.

So yeah, if a woman spends three hours on makeup before work dolling herself up, wears a sexy dress and god knows what, she’s going to get attention. And she knows it.

Does she deserve negative attention? No, nobody does, but she’ll get it, and hopefully the ass-holes perpetrating it get reprimanded. But it won’t stop her getting it again in the future.

Being an asshole is gender-less but you can typically avoid attracting assholes by not walking around Detroit with a briefcase of cash.

Calling people who wear makeup “hypocrites” is a stretch and I don’t think that’s the right word to use, but I get what he’s at least trying to say.

Wow.

You can try and qualify it all you like, but you just made the “she was asking for it” defense of harassment (and assault/rape, by the way, since that’s often where this goes). Disgusting.

I disagree. There is actually an argument to be made that, while no one deserves harassment, having a blouse/dress with a plunging neckline isn’t doing the wearer any favors at avoiding it. Certain attire seems specifically designed to draw the eye in particular directions. It doesn’t mean they deserve negative attention.

And I wouldn’t place blame solely on the woman for dressing as such, but on the fashion industry and our culture for teaching women to value wearing such clothing and to accentuate certain features. Again, that doesn’t mean they deserve
it. They don’t.

JEDIT: With regard to makeup, my understanding is that the purpose of makeup is to make it appear as though the wearer isn’t using any. So I don’t really see how doing so is asking for anything.

Ryan-SWI said:

moviefreakedmind said:

It isn’t activism, it’s having effective HR departments at work. Men get sexually harassed too, so even if we were all being totally selfish here, this would benefit us too. Having zero-tolerance for sexual harassment won’t effect you if you don’t repeatedly make horribly unwarranted advances toward people.

I agree.

The three hours, getting dolled up, wearing sexy dresses, and god knows what else are all your additions to this. Peterson was talking about makeup in general. Even if I conceded that such behavior makes you a hypocrite, which I don’t, it’s still not representative of all working women that wear makeup.

In the full interview he doesn’t speak about ‘regular old makeup’, he refers to high-heels and sexualised lipstick, among other things.

In response to that question, he was, and his hypothetical solution was to ban makeup. “How about no makeup?” He did walk it back because it’s stupid, but he kept saying that men don’t know what the rules are, whatever that means, but not sexually harassing someone is incredibly easy. The rules are clear. If someone tells you that your behavior makes them uncomfortable, then you stop. If you don’t stop, then they report you to HR. The rules are very simple and easy to follow.

It was also me trying to better understand what he was talking about given the context we have; the man’s annoyingly abrupt with most of his replies.

Usually he rambles on trying to squeeze in as many buzzwords as he can.

Detroit is a shithole that’s totally unsafe. We’re talking about professional work environments. That’s a false equivalence and you know it.

I don’t agree. Not all work environments are professional, safe, etc. I wish they were but they’re not. Just like I wish Detroit wasn’t a shithole, but it is. Different workplaces have different cultures, some of them pretty hostile.

I know, some workplaces are shitholes, and that needs to change. It’s easier to enforce proper conduct in individual workplaces than it is in the streets of Detroit.

Ryan-SWI said:

Yeah I’m not sure what he hoped to accomplish by making men sound like socially inept buffoons. If I’m going to guess then I’d say he’s referring to it not being “the norm” for very long? But again at this point it has been the norm for quite a while, so yeah. No idea.

That’s not it, he’s trying to pander to an audience of men that feel oppressed and disadvantaged in modern society and somehow don’t see the hypocrisy of them being against SJWs when they themselves are also trying to play the victim at every turn. That’s Jordan Peterson’s shtick.

Ryan-SWI said:

moviefreakedmind said:

he’s trying to pander to an audience of men that feel oppressed and disadvantaged in modern society and somehow don’t see the hypocrisy of them being against SJWs when they themselves are also trying to play the victim at every turn.

I think the extremes of both sides can be as bad as each other.

Nope. The extreme right is more dangerous than the extreme left in this country.

Both men and women face issues and it’d be a lot better for everyone if we stopped playing oppression Olympics and realised that. I’m just as sick of radical leftists calling me homophobic, sexist, etc. as I am of radical far righters calling everyone who doesn’t agree with them a ‘cuck’ or ‘beta.’

I don’t care what anyone on either side calls me, I care about what each advocates and does. The mainstream right advocates and implements far more horrific policies than the mainstream left. I’m not talking about radicals.

I’m right leaning but I probably feel just as annoyed at the extremists on the right side as the average left leaning person does for the extremists on theirs.

You obviously don’t because Jordan Peterson is one of those extremists on the right, along with his cult following. The extremists on the right also control all three branches of government.

It’s fine to disagree with someone, I just don’t get tearing people down and shitting all over them just because they have a different political opinion.

Well I get it. Tearing someone down and shitting all over them because they have a terrible political opinion is completely rational.