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If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place — Page 389

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Mrebo said:

You seem to be coming from a place of knowing about comicsgate and have particular cares about it. Handman clearly doesn’t even know what it’s about so it’s not fair to say he is expressing callousness to you particular concerns. You could say, hey the name sounds dopey but it’s actually something important because X reasons. Maybe he’ll agree with you or maybe he’ll have more contrarian views about it. You seem to be way overreading Handman’s post.

In that case, is it not callous for someone (with no knowledge of, let’s say, the Holocaust) to say “I hate all this bitching about the Holocaust which is of no consequence to me.”

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DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

You seem to be coming from a place of knowing about comicsgate and have particular cares about it. Handman clearly doesn’t even know what it’s about so it’s not fair to say he is expressing callousness to you particular concerns. You could say, hey the name sounds dopey but it’s actually something important because X reasons. Maybe he’ll agree with you or maybe he’ll have more contrarian views about it. You seem to be way overreading Handman’s post.

In that case, is it not callous for someone (with no knowledge of, let’s say, the Holocaust) to say “I hate all this bitching about the Holocaust which is of no consequence to me.”

Because “comicsgate” is like the Holocaust? That question is only rhetorical but gets to a fundamental problem with your hypothetical.

Not all of us are so excited about the social skirmishes that occur nowadays and think most of it is pretty dumb and avoidable.

If somebody has no idea what the Holocaust is, they should be informed. If they have some inkling it was about killing a bunch of people but don’t care, that’s another matter.

The blue elephant in the room.

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Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

You seem to be coming from a place of knowing about comicsgate and have particular cares about it. Handman clearly doesn’t even know what it’s about so it’s not fair to say he is expressing callousness to you particular concerns. You could say, hey the name sounds dopey but it’s actually something important because X reasons. Maybe he’ll agree with you or maybe he’ll have more contrarian views about it. You seem to be way overreading Handman’s post.

In that case, is it not callous for someone (with no knowledge of, let’s say, the Holocaust) to say “I hate all this bitching about the Holocaust which is of no consequence to me.”

Because “comicsgate” is like the Holocaust? That question is only rhetorical but gets to a fundamental problem with your hypothetical.

Not all of us are so excited about the social skirmishes that occur nowadays and think most of it is pretty dumb and avoidable.

If somebody has no idea what the Holocaust is, they should be informed. If they have some inkling it was about killing a bunch of people but don’t care, that’s another matter.

The point wasn’t that “comicsgate” is like the Holocaust. The point is that you can’t just go around saying that people are silly and stupid for complaining about something you have no knowledge of - Holocaust being the extreme most pie-in-your face scenario, there are of course scenarios where it’s right to call an outrage/scandal stupid, but it’s unwise to declare as much before you even know anything about it.

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DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

You seem to be coming from a place of knowing about comicsgate and have particular cares about it. Handman clearly doesn’t even know what it’s about so it’s not fair to say he is expressing callousness to you particular concerns. You could say, hey the name sounds dopey but it’s actually something important because X reasons. Maybe he’ll agree with you or maybe he’ll have more contrarian views about it. You seem to be way overreading Handman’s post.

In that case, is it not callous for someone (with no knowledge of, let’s say, the Holocaust) to say “I hate all this bitching about the Holocaust which is of no consequence to me.”

Because “comicsgate” is like the Holocaust? That question is only rhetorical but gets to a fundamental problem with your hypothetical.

Not all of us are so excited about the social skirmishes that occur nowadays and think most of it is pretty dumb and avoidable.

If somebody has no idea what the Holocaust is, they should be informed. If they have some inkling it was about killing a bunch of people but don’t care, that’s another matter.

The point wasn’t that “comicsgate” is like the Holocaust. The point is that you can’t just go around saying that people are silly and stupid for complaining about something you have no knowledge of - Holocaust being the extreme most pie-in-your face scenario, there are of course scenarios where it’s right to call an outrage/scandal stupid, but it’s unwise to declare as much before you even know anything about it.

Agree it’s unwise, but not callous.

The blue elephant in the room.

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Comicsgate is ostensibly about comics, genocidegate is very clearly about genocide. I’d say it’s fallacious to assume the controversy is just people whining about comic books, but it isn’t an unreasonable assumption to make.

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Why are you guys bitching at each other about whether people can bitch about whether people can bitch?

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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I think all the brouhaha about the impending royal wedding is dumb, inconsequential, etc.

And that doesn’t mean I’m callous to heartache or embarrassment Miss Markle, Liz, and others might be feeling.

The blue elephant in the room.

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Mrebo said:

I think all the brouhaha about the impending royal wedding is dumb, inconsequential, etc.

And that doesn’t mean I’m callous to heartache or embarrassment Miss Markle, Liz, and others might be feeling.

Yeah but you know the royal wedding is just a royal wedding.

You can’t say comicsgate is stupid and the people complaining about it are stupid just because the name is stupid. And yes, it is callous to assume the people involved are dealing with something inconsequential.

And to be clear, I don’t even really know what comicsgate is. It’s just the fact of the matter.

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ComicsGate is an ongoing debate over the content found in comic books, with some readers arguing that comic book publishers and retailers emphasize progressive politics and diversity over quality of product, which has caused a decline in sales. The debate escalated with the participation of several prominent members of the comic book industry and “blacklisting” of certain titles. Much like GamerGate, supporters of the movement have been accused of using online trolling and harassment towards women, people of color and others who oppose their agenda.

Now people can stop wondering.

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It’s unfortunate the drama overshadows the actual discussion.

If the artist wants to include minority characters, transgendered characters, etc., cool. They don’t need an HR person and Chief Diversity & Inclusion Officer hovering over their desk telling them who to include, though. Let the market sort it out. If gamers and comic readers don’t like the stories or characters, they won’t buy the media.

Forum Administrator

MTFBWY…A

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Jay said:

It’s unfortunate the drama overshadows the actual discussion.

If the artist wants to include minority characters, transgendered characters, etc., cool. They don’t need an HR person and Chief Diversity & Inclusion Officer hovering over their desk telling them who to include, though. Let the market sort it out. If gamers and comic readers don’t like the stories or characters, they won’t buy the media.

Sounds right to me.

The blue elephant in the room.

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My Achilles injury is not healing nearly as quickly as I want it to. And today was a particularly rough day at work (step counter says I walked 9 miles), so now it really hurts.

Thankfully tomorrow is a short shift, and I have Sunday off…

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Mrebo said:

Jay said:

It’s unfortunate the drama overshadows the actual discussion.

If the artist wants to include minority characters, transgendered characters, etc., cool. They don’t need an HR person and Chief Diversity & Inclusion Officer hovering over their desk telling them who to include, though. Let the market sort it out. If gamers and comic readers don’t like the stories or characters, they won’t buy the media.

Sounds right to me.

Yep.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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TV’s Frink said:

Nope.

So artists shouldn’t be free to create the characters and stories they want to create? I’d appreciate a more substantive response.

Forum Administrator

MTFBWY…A

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Would rather not, sorry. I’ll just spend another eight hours here.

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 (Edited)

I have a feeling that comicbooks, like movies, video games, books, and almost everything else, aren’t anywhere near as politically subversive or progressive as people think. Typically corporate media tries not to be too progressive. I don’t know where the idea that every single media outlet is pushing progressive politics comes from.

EDIT: I know where the idea comes from, but I don’t know why anyone believes it.

The Person in Question

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Two of my high school English teachers have been dating, I think, longer than anyone in my graduating class has even been alive. Yesterday, Pat, as we call him, was a speaker, and halfway through his speech he changed the subject to his love for Ms. Slavens. Everyone was happy, and we got even more excited when he said “She once told me that when we get married, she wants…” and all of us expected a proposal. Alas, Pat did not, it seemed, want to co-opt our big day with his own public proposal, but really, we all wanted him to. So, there was no proposal, and we all left the commencement ceremony just a bit disappointed.

.

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moviefreakedmind said:

I have a feeling that comicbooks, like movies, video games, books, and almost everything else, aren’t anywhere near as politically subversive or progressive as people think. Typically corporate media tries not to be too progressive. I don’t know where the idea that every single media outlet is pushing progressive politics comes from.

EDIT: I know where the idea comes from, but I don’t know why anyone believes it.

The argument, at least when it comes to comics and video games, is the opposite: they’re not progressive enough, or even regressive in their portrayals, especially when it comes to women. I don’t read comics, so I don’t have a strong opinion on that in particular, but I’ve seen examples where a character’s sexuality was awkwardly inserted without much regard for its relevance to the story.

The question is whether the artist has an obligation to modify their stories to increase representation of “underrepresented” groups and promote social and political agendas. I don’t think they do. Go create a comic hero that represents you if you want one.

Forum Administrator

MTFBWY…A

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Artists aren’t obligated to do anything. If it’s an obligation then it isn’t art.

The Person in Question

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I’d compare awkward insertion of sexuality without relevance to the story to when characters are awkwardly made to have romantic or flirtatious interactions with people of the opposite sex with no regard for its relevance to the story.

The Person in Question