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QUESTIONS FOR THE MUSICALLY INCLINED

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   Hi,    I apologize for creating an entire thread for this. I have noticed that there are members here who deal with music and, I suppose, would have a basic understanding of stringed instruments.    When I was a boy, my aunt gave me her practice guitar. I decided to read some instruction manuals and other information in preparation for learning to to play. I also had thoughts of taking up violin or cello at some point. I learned about alternate tunings, twelve string and tenor guitars, basic chord forms and methods. I was trying to find the easiest and quickest way for a complete novice to advance and then learn other instruments. Life intervened and and I dropped the idea- but not before I had formed a few nagging questions.      I'm too embarrassed to ask this of professonal guitarists and I don't want to join another site just for this. If you will forgive my near total ignorance and some exceedingly stupid questions...     My goal was to find a tuning that would work best for a beginner. I wanted it to cover the full range of the standard six string with standard tuning, make everything as logical as possible, simple (simplistic) for learning and remembering scales, to reduce the number of strings necessary, to accomodate the widest variety of hand forms (I can stretch a tenth on piano, but my pinkey is short and my thumb is set back relative to my other long slender fingers), ease chord formation, and transfer as much as possible to the orchestral strings. To accomplish all that I had to go outside the box and I couldn't find examples of anything quite like it.    I had finally settled on an open tuning that ran EAEAE low-to-high. However, I thought of stringing EEEAA across the fretboard (EEEA#A# has  a nice symmetry, but I'm not sure if the stepped up A#s would work well open.)  E,E^1oc,E^2ocs,A,A^1oc.    I experimented in altered standard tuning as best I could with my completely untutored and pathetically limited imagination. The high E in the middle with the low A and then high A following was certainly awkward with regard for standard tuning. However, I imagined there might be several advantages to more than compensate...    5 strings, 3Es or 2As might be played together as though doubled, the low E and E^1oc might be strung in close courses as on a 12 string (low E with thumb and further thinning the neck) learn only E and A, low E to high E as with standard tuning, no broken fourths, some easier chord forms with opportunities to play neighboring strings as though doubled, and some easier reach and thumbwork on the fret board. I'd hoped it could be as easy to learn and play as a four string in perfect fifths while producing six string sound. Also, a seven string guitar EEEEAAA might be possible on a six string neck.        For the orchestral strings, EEAA might be possible, but EAEA low to high might be better with a bow. I was drawn to this tuning because the violin GDAE isn't my preference. I prefer the lower deeper tones of the violin and find it's highest notes too painfully piercing. The viola seems a little too low and throaty. Down a 3rd on the low end and down a fifth on the high end seems about right to me. The cello tuned up a third might make a better solo instrument. Dbass would remain in the same range.     Anyway, sorry for all the rambling. I'm sure there are simple and obvious reasons for why that tuning is impractical. I guess I'm asking for those reasons so this stops nagging at me.     If you made it this far you've given more consideration than this deserves. Thanks :) 
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     Hi again,       There were other reasons for selecting this tuning. I placed a value (maybe too high?) upon having open strings in common with the standard guitar and orchestral strings tunings. The low E and low A are common to the guitar and Dbass. The high E remains for guitar. The high A is common between EAEA, CGDA, and GDAE.       Also, I wanted it to be as effective as possible to drop to low C with extensions for violin, cello, and Dbass (I've come to think of instruments optimized for EAEA and extensions as the violi, viole', and Violo.) If I had the money of a Gates or Buffet, it would be fun to create a school to produce an orchestra and chamber groups with a new tuning and 3 types of instruments instead of 4.      A variation for guitar was E-E^1oc-E^2ocs-A^1oc-A. This would place the higher strings in the center and produce a v^v arrangement. I couldn't perform a crude test with my standard tuned guitar so I have no idea. In a seven string it would run Ev1oc strung close to E-E^1oc-E^2ocs-A^1oc-A-Av1oc EEEEAAA.      I've wondered about creating a slight bow to the guitar bridge to raise the high E in the center.      I've wondered if it would be possible to run the low E so it drops over the edge, runs along the side of the board and is accessable to the thumb or hooked finger ;/      Anyway, I tend to begin with a conclusion, create as many workable propositions as I can, select my favorite props, and then spend most of the time trying to eliminate the less favored propostions. This makes trying to track and remember my propositions and conclusions...interesting ;)       Later :)
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The standard EADGBE exists because it is versatile and easy for beginners.

I don't think it's necessarily the greatest idea to base your tuning off the idea it will help you progress to other stringed instruments. The guitar is often used for chords, so its requirements are very different from the violin & Co. Guitars are fretted, so the precise hand placement is going to end up a little off. In general, it's just a very different instrument. There are fretted instruments with violin-style tuning, though: mandolin, for example.

Additionally, I'd be concerned about only having 5 strings for any long period of time. The tension in strings on the guitar do help hold the neck in its proper position. One less string is a little less force.

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project

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timdiggerm said:

Additionally, I'd be concerned about only having 5 strings for any long period of time. The tension in strings on the guitar do help hold the neck in its proper position. One less string is a little less force.

Not only this, but open tunings decrease the tension along the neck even more. Eventually, you are going to throw your guitar out of whack leaving it with 5 strings in open tuning. Y

As someone who taught himself to play guitar 10 years ago, I would never, ever recommend someone learn the way you want to, thejediknighthusezn. It'd be like learning to paint while wearing blue-tinted glasses or something.

No offense, but stop trying to reinvent the wheel and just learn the standard tuning. It is called "standard" for a reason.

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    Thanks,      Yeah, I doubt anyone would want to reinvent everything.       This was something I thought as a kid. Afterwards, it became more of a thought exercise to imagine what would happen if everyone in the world suddenly forgot all that was known about tuning and had to start from scratch. Would they recreate the present arrangements because they are, indeed, ideal?       I stacked things one side or t'other EEEAA because it seemed to produce some easier chords and a possibility of thinning the neck for the thumb.       There was a variation of EAEA for guitar. E-A-E-Eoc higher-A   EAEEA. The seven string version ran Eoc down-E-Aoc down-A-Eoc up-E2ocs up-Aoc up  EEAAEEA or an 8 string with the high A doubled at the same octave EEAAEEAA. The high A would be a fifth lower that the high E that preceded it. Anyone want to step up? ;)
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re: Guitars

I’ve been looking into getting an inexpensive guitar from Amazon and a copy of Rocksmith 2014 to teach myself how to play.

I was thinking about getting an Fender Squier Bullet HSS stratocaster, but when I said so in Random Thoughts, Possessed said Fender is just a name and that Sawtooth is better for the money.

Thoughts? Agree/disagree?

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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dude fenders are expensive as heck.

for electric guitars, an expensive one isn’t much different from a cheap one in terms of sound - i have two electrics, one expensive and one cheap, and they’re really not that different. there is a difference but it’s not that big of a difference.

in acoustics you can feel the difference a lot more, but i’m not sure if an expensive acoustic is worth it if you’re only going to start learning.

so yeah get a $50 max guitar and have fun. if you really get into it, then buy more expensive, better guitars. but it’s not worth it to buy a fender rigt now. what if you end up not even enjoying playing guitar?

also, the amplifier you use makes as much of a difference in terms of sound quality as the guitar you use. maybe even more so.

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Maybe start a new thread next time rather than bump a seven year old one started by an infamous former member? I almost freaked…

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Where were you in '77?

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Collipso said:

dude fenders are expensive as heck.

for electric guitars, an expensive one isn’t much different from a cheap one in terms of sound - i have two electrics, one expensive and one cheap, and they’re really not that different. there is a difference but it’s not that big of a difference.

in acoustics you can feel the difference a lot more, but i’m not sure if an expensive acoustic is worth it if you’re only going to start learning.

so yeah get a $50 max guitar and have fun. if you really get into it, then buy more expensive, better guitars. but it’s not worth it to buy a fender rigt now. what if you end up not even enjoying playing guitar?

also, the amplifier you use makes as much of a difference in terms of sound quality as the guitar you use. maybe even more so.

50 is pushing it, but a 100 guitar would be fine. I’m not saying fender is JUST a name. I mean they make fine guitars that’s why they’re so famous. I’m saying the fact that it’s a fender will already mean it’s more expensive than a similar quality guitar of a different brand. If you were wanting to spend thousands of dollars and price was no object, fuck yeah get a fender stratocaster. But if money is an object, you’ll get more bang for your buck getting an off brand. My favorite guitar that I own is my pevey raptor plus and I recall it being less than 200.

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I’m not a fan of the HSS layout. If you’re going for a strat, take the classic SSS version.

Ceci n’est pas une signature.