Religion — Page 104

TV’s Frink said:

All that matters is what I believe and what you believe doesn’t? Cool.

And you can report me if you feel I’ve crossed a line but I don’t see it.

I do not push my beliefs on you. It is not necessary for you to assert that people here are doing that, unless your goal is to straight up vent about the ideology/philosophy/faith in general. But I don’t see what positive effect is to gained from perpetual complaining to nobody in particular about an idea in general which is not being forced on you and which you yourself don’t believe.

If you don’t believe it, it ought not hold sway over you.

Jeebus said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

darthrush said:

Dek Rollins said:

darthrush said:

Dek Rollins said:

TV’s Frink said:

Trident said:

TV’s Frink said:

Hmmm…you believe different than I do? Ok, you’re going to be tortured forever after you die.

Oh, and that other guy who led a terrible life, raped, robbed, murdered, kicked puppies and pushed down old ladies, but accepted Jesus as his savior right at the end? He’s a better person than you are.

Nah, doesn’t seem like a shitty belief system at all.

A guy who accepts getting saved at the end isn’t gonna fool God if he’s not sincere. And if he’s sincere? Why wouldn’t that matter?

I mean how would such a guy have heard of Jesus anyway if not for someone else taking time to point it out to him. Someone who noticed he was on a destructive path and took a lot of effort to help him onto a better one?

I don’t know why you’d be against the idea that even a horrible person could find a way to redeem themselves. I mean can criminals be rehabilitated or not? Should we lock people up forever on a 1st offense? Or should we give them other chances?

A rapist and murderer who legitimately gives his life to Christ is less of a sinner than me.

I’d just like to say that this is not really how it works. The rapist/murderer is not less of a sinner than you. He did not sin less than you just because that sin is forgiven. But, he will be saved rather than you, because he gave complete recognition to the person who bought him the choice to ask for forgiveness.

And it’s still just as repulsive of an idea.

If you say so. I suppose I better just move on with my repulsive and shitty life, though maybe I could better my reputation by murdering a few unborn children with no medical issues.

Dude…

I’m attacking an idea. Never called you a terrible or crappy person.

When you attack an idea that’s at the core of a person’s belief system, it’s kind of tough for them not to take it personally.

Which is why I take it personally that I’m going to hell and a murderer isn’t!

Besides, as I said, your opinion has already been made and the dead horse need not be beaten further.

Yeah, everybody should just stop posting in this thread after they’ve shared their opinion once. In fact, if someone else shared a similar opinion, you don’t have to post anything at all. They already shared it for you.

That’s not what I said. And that’s not the meaning of beating a dead horse.

JEDIT: Now someone is going to “inb4 chyron posts definition of ‘beating a dead horse’”.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron8472 said:

TV’s Frink said:

All that matters is what I believe and what you believe doesn’t? Cool.

And you can report me if you feel I’ve crossed a line but I don’t see it.

I do not push my beliefs on you. It is not necessary for you to assert that people here are doing that, unless your goal is to straight up vent about the ideology/philosophy/faith in general. But I don’t see what positive effect is to gained from perpetual complaining to nobody in particular about an idea in general which is not being forced on you and which you yourself don’t believe.

What positive effect do you think is to be gained from perpetual complaining about my posts?

It is not perpetual, nor is it directed solely at you. I would hope a positive effect might be improvement in the general tone of the discussion.

I really would rather talk about how certain aspects of whatever ideologies or faiths (not just mine) might be applicable, rather than constantly revisiting how people are offended by aspects of them or continually find them ludicrous.

TV’s Frink said:

Mrebo said:

TV’s Frink said:

I’m just sitting at my computer, shaking my head that someone can think this way.

And that comparison is terrible.

And “nicer” is a terrible way to try and describe the difference between a rapist/murder and someone who isn’t convinced that Jesus was resurrected and is the son of God.

And some people in this thread wonder why I think religion is a terrible, terrible thing.

It actually makes a tremendous deal of sense. Imagine a person born into terrible circumstances, abused, exposed to drugs, etc. All he knows is violence and he acts accordingly. One day, he truly repents, asks Jesus for forgiveness.

Yeah but there’s no difference between that guy and the guy who rapes and murders for fun despite having every possible socio-economic advantage, and then one day he truly repents and asks Jesus for forgiveness.

And under the Christian view, at least as I’m familiar with it, you are right. But not only is there no difference in sinfulness and potential for repentance between those two murderers, there is no difference between them and you. Again, in terms of sinfulness and repentance. That is different than the obviously worse harm they have done.

And that, they say, is what makes Christian salvation wonderful. No matter how truly awful a person has been, it is possible to be saved.

TV’s Frink said:

Jay said:

darthrush said:

Dek Rollins said:

darthrush said:

Dek Rollins said:

TV’s Frink said:

Trident said:

TV’s Frink said:

Hmmm…you believe different than I do? Ok, you’re going to be tortured forever after you die.

Oh, and that other guy who led a terrible life, raped, robbed, murdered, kicked puppies and pushed down old ladies, but accepted Jesus as his savior right at the end? He’s a better person than you are.

Nah, doesn’t seem like a shitty belief system at all.

A guy who accepts getting saved at the end isn’t gonna fool God if he’s not sincere. And if he’s sincere? Why wouldn’t that matter?

I mean how would such a guy have heard of Jesus anyway if not for someone else taking time to point it out to him. Someone who noticed he was on a destructive path and took a lot of effort to help him onto a better one?

I don’t know why you’d be against the idea that even a horrible person could find a way to redeem themselves. I mean can criminals be rehabilitated or not? Should we lock people up forever on a 1st offense? Or should we give them other chances?

A rapist and murderer who legitimately gives his life to Christ is less of a sinner than me.

I’d just like to say that this is not really how it works. The rapist/murderer is not less of a sinner than you. He did not sin less than you just because that sin is forgiven. But, he will be saved rather than you, because he gave complete recognition to the person who bought him the choice to ask for forgiveness.

And it’s still just as repulsive of an idea.

If you say so. I suppose I better just move on with my repulsive and shitty life, though maybe I could better my reputation by murdering a few unborn children with no medical issues.

Dude…

I’m attacking an idea. Never called you a terrible or crappy person.

When you attack an idea that’s at the core of a person’s belief system, it’s kind of tough for them not to take it personally.

Which is why I take it personally that I’m going to hell and a murderer isn’t!

This this this this.

I don’t think I’ve ever agreed with Frink more in my life 😉

TV’s Frink said:

Sounds great. And convenient. And super unlikely.

I think it’s way more convenient to get into heaven for being a “good person.” And to define “good person,” by the morality that prevails in our particular society. Having a clear and objective way for people to be saved makes more sense, and doesn’t feel so convenient. Having to live a life striving to avoid and repent for even small sins sounds like a major hassle. Would you rather that those dealt a bad hand in life be condemned?

TV’s Frink said:

Should the ticket to heaven really be “worship me?”

Such a needy being for being a perfect being.

I think it’s way less about “worship,” as that word is commonly understood, than “recognize reality and act accordingly because you want to.”

If there’s a perfect and benevolent being who, having granted us free will, provides a way for us to overcome our inherent sinfulness (rather than condemning us outright or negating that free will), it makes zero sense to say, “God, you’re so needy.”

I think one would naturally “worship” the perfect and benevolent being who created them. I think it’s less a requirement than a WTH is wrong with a person who doesn’t appreciate that perfect being who created existence.

I do not understand the rituals and rote recitations and banal songs that occupy much time in religious services. I wonder if even God thinks it’s nice but you people are focusing energy in the wrong areas.

TV’s Frink said:

Dek Rollins said:

darthrush said:

Dek Rollins said:

TV’s Frink said:

Trident said:

TV’s Frink said:

Hmmm…you believe different than I do? Ok, you’re going to be tortured forever after you die.

Oh, and that other guy who led a terrible life, raped, robbed, murdered, kicked puppies and pushed down old ladies, but accepted Jesus as his savior right at the end? He’s a better person than you are.

Nah, doesn’t seem like a shitty belief system at all.

A guy who accepts getting saved at the end isn’t gonna fool God if he’s not sincere. And if he’s sincere? Why wouldn’t that matter?

I mean how would such a guy have heard of Jesus anyway if not for someone else taking time to point it out to him. Someone who noticed he was on a destructive path and took a lot of effort to help him onto a better one?

I don’t know why you’d be against the idea that even a horrible person could find a way to redeem themselves. I mean can criminals be rehabilitated or not? Should we lock people up forever on a 1st offense? Or should we give them other chances?

A rapist and murderer who legitimately gives his life to Christ is less of a sinner than me.

I’d just like to say that this is not really how it works. The rapist/murderer is not less of a sinner than you. He did not sin less than you just because that sin is forgiven. But, he will be saved rather than you, because he gave complete recognition to the person who bought him the choice to ask for forgiveness.

And it’s still just as repulsive of an idea.

If you say so.

I do too. It’s completely fucked up, and if God exists and is omnipotent, I don’t think he would judge someone based on their devotion to him, which he has no need for, being a perfect being. It’s lunacy.

I suppose I better just move on with my repulsive and shitty life, though maybe I could better my reputation by murdering a few unborn children with no medical issues.

Well I guess you get credit for throwing medical issues in there.

Too bad for women that were raped though I guess. Or for women with medical issues.

Or what about the couple whose condom broke and they simply cannot afford or simply don’t want to have a kid? (I’m guessing plan B counts as murder.)

The idea that God uses a secret algorithm that weighs sins in a “reasonable” way seems way more arbitrary and self-serving.

Mrebo said:

The idea that God uses a secret algorithm that weighs sins in a “reasonable” way seems way more arbitrary and self-serving.

No, it actually doesn’t. Not if we’re characterizing him as a divine dealer of justice. Like I said, imagine if our justice system judged all crime equally.

.

A great way for me to crystallize this issue can be found simply by analyzing the story of Abraham being told to murder his son. There are two clear paths that Abraham can choose, and they are:

1. Disobey the lord and take the moral path of love by not killing his son.
2. Choose obedience/worship over moral integrity and murder his son.

Even though his son still doesn’t die, the important lesson God wanted to teach there was that he was willing to do so in the name of obeying the lord.

That really closes the case for me. Also food for thought people…

If this happened today and a prophet of a church, or even better, your own church, and he was going to kill his son since he had a vision that God told him to do so, people would rightfully be disgusted at such behavior.

They would be disgusted, but they would also recognize such behavior as an obvious symptom of a severe mental illness. You’re right though, the moral message of that story has always revolted me.

l

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

Dek Rollins said:

darthrush said:

Dek Rollins said:

TV’s Frink said:

Trident said:

TV’s Frink said:

Hmmm…you believe different than I do? Ok, you’re going to be tortured forever after you die.

Oh, and that other guy who led a terrible life, raped, robbed, murdered, kicked puppies and pushed down old ladies, but accepted Jesus as his savior right at the end? He’s a better person than you are.

Nah, doesn’t seem like a shitty belief system at all.

A guy who accepts getting saved at the end isn’t gonna fool God if he’s not sincere. And if he’s sincere? Why wouldn’t that matter?

I mean how would such a guy have heard of Jesus anyway if not for someone else taking time to point it out to him. Someone who noticed he was on a destructive path and took a lot of effort to help him onto a better one?

I don’t know why you’d be against the idea that even a horrible person could find a way to redeem themselves. I mean can criminals be rehabilitated or not? Should we lock people up forever on a 1st offense? Or should we give them other chances?

A rapist and murderer who legitimately gives his life to Christ is less of a sinner than me.

I’d just like to say that this is not really how it works. The rapist/murderer is not less of a sinner than you. He did not sin less than you just because that sin is forgiven. But, he will be saved rather than you, because he gave complete recognition to the person who bought him the choice to ask for forgiveness.

And it’s still just as repulsive of an idea.

If you say so.

I do too. It’s completely fucked up, and if God exists and is omnipotent, I don’t think he would judge someone based on their devotion to him, which he has no need for, being a perfect being. It’s lunacy.

I suppose I better just move on with my repulsive and shitty life, though maybe I could better my reputation by murdering a few unborn children with no medical issues.

Well I guess you get credit for throwing medical issues in there.

Too bad for women that were raped though I guess. Or for women with medical issues.

Or what about the couple whose condom broke and they simply cannot afford or simply don’t want to have a kid? (I’m guessing plan B counts as murder.)

Yeah, but who broke the condom…

…with his noodly appendage. Er, wait, no. Too hentai.

I never understood how it’s so impressive of the God character to sacrifice his son. Like, sacrificing your child even for a good cause isn’t impressive. It’d be like if I signed other people up for the military and said, “I’m sending people to fight and die for your freedom so you need to appreciate me.”

Stop ruining the discussion in this thread.