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Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo — Page 727

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moviefreakedmind said:

Mrebo said:

Weird little story about Paul Ryan trying to get rid of the chaplain of the House. The chaplain claims that Ryan’s chief of staff said, “maybe it’s time that we had a Chaplain that wasn’t Catholic.”

Violation of free exercise of religion?

There shouldn’t be any government employed Chaplain.

Ding ding ding.

The fact that there is even such a position is bad form in my opinion.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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Curious what people would think if Ryan did away with the chaplain position because he’s sick and tired of Catholics.

The blue elephant in the room.

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 (Edited)

moviefreakedmind said:

I don’t think the argument has ever been that Trump is a white supremacist, but rather it’s that his base is significantly composed of racist idiots.

He is too.

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So are we all if we’re measuring approval ratings by skin color

K. Let’s have this ride.

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DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I don’t think the argument has ever been that Trump is a white supremacist, but rather it’s that his base is significantly composed of racist idiots.

He is too.

Not as devotedly as his supporters are.

The Person in Question

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Trident said:

So are we all if we’re measuring approval ratings by skin color

Not necessarily. Measuring the opinions of a demographic, while using a common physical feature for them to refer to them, does not make one bigoted.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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I’m just trying to imagine how this questioning goes. I mean do you ask the guy after the interview “Are you black? Oh, that’s interesting. I’ll check this box here then.” But then what is black exactly? I mean what % counts? 1/2? 1/4? 1/16?

And why does it matter?

It seems to me it only matters if someone’s trying to figure out what “they” think. Which obviously means that “they’re” a group. Which obviously means there’s a common thought being pulled from that group. Which obviously means someone somewhere will be tempted to say: “Black people think this way. Black people vote this way. Black people are this way.”

If that’s not grouping by race and labeling by race I’m not sure what is. I mean what’s the difference between being racist (judging based on race) and playing with racial statistics (predicting based on race)?

K. Let’s have this ride.

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 (Edited)

Trident said:

I’m just trying to imagine how this questioning goes. I mean do you ask the guy after the interview “Are you black? Oh, that’s interesting. I’ll check this box here then.” But then what is black exactly? I mean what % counts? 1/2? 1/4? 1/16?

And why does it matter?

It seems to me it only matters if someone’s trying to figure out what “they” think. Which obviously means that “they’re” a group. Which obviously means there’s a common thought being pulled from that group. Which obviously means someone somewhere will be tempted to say: “Black people think this way. Black people vote this way. Black people are this way.”

If that’s not grouping by race and labeling by race I’m not sure what is. I mean what’s the difference between being racist (judging based on race) and playing with racial statistics (predicting based on race)?

I think you need to do some research into why “color blindness” is considered problematic.

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Yeah, in theory it’s a nice idea to look beyond racial differences and just see one happy human race, but that undermines the struggles people of color have faced and still face because of their race.

.

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Targeting a particular demographic for a study does not inherently suggest a “them” mindset.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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Mrebo said:

Curious what people would think if Ryan did away with the chaplain position because he’s sick and tired of Catholics.

Most of the right things in history have been done for the wrong reasons. If you’re waiting for nobility, you’re in for a long wait, especially with this crowd.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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suspiciouscoffee said:

Yeah, in theory it’s a nice idea to look beyond racial differences and just see one happy human race, but that undermines the struggles people of color have faced and still face because of their race.

…and will still face as long as we keep surveying them as “those kind of people think this”

K. Let’s have this ride.

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Trident said:

suspiciouscoffee said:

Yeah, in theory it’s a nice idea to look beyond racial differences and just see one happy human race, but that undermines the struggles people of color have faced and still face because of their race.

…and will still face as long as we keep surveying them as “those kind of people think this”

It’s not about “those kinds of people” (although maybe the article was, who knows). You can easily find statistics about approval ratings from white people too. Demographics are important to take stock of.

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DominicCobb said:

Trident said:

I’m just trying to imagine how this questioning goes. I mean do you ask the guy after the interview “Are you black? Oh, that’s interesting. I’ll check this box here then.” But then what is black exactly? I mean what % counts? 1/2? 1/4? 1/16?

And why does it matter?

It seems to me it only matters if someone’s trying to figure out what “they” think. Which obviously means that “they’re” a group. Which obviously means there’s a common thought being pulled from that group. Which obviously means someone somewhere will be tempted to say: “Black people think this way. Black people vote this way. Black people are this way.”

If that’s not grouping by race and labeling by race I’m not sure what is. I mean what’s the difference between being racist (judging based on race) and playing with racial statistics (predicting based on race)?

I think you need to do some research into why “color blindness” is considered problematic.

All I know is that I don’t spend any time wondering what guys of Irish decent like me think about something compared to guys of French decent. Seems like the reason we’re doing it with black people is because we can see the color of their skin.

I mean if we’re really interested in finding out how “they” think? We’d be scanning for what kind of tribe they came from originally. Instead of grouping them into a “group” that sort of looks the “same” to us.

I don’t know.

K. Let’s have this ride.

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DominicCobb said:

Trident said:

suspiciouscoffee said:

Yeah, in theory it’s a nice idea to look beyond racial differences and just see one happy human race, but that undermines the struggles people of color have faced and still face because of their race.

…and will still face as long as we keep surveying them as “those kind of people think this”

It’s not about “those kinds of people” (although maybe the article was, who knows). You can easily find statistics about approval ratings from white people too. Demographics are important to take stock of.

I’m not arguing that isn’t the case. I’m pointing out it’s grouping by race. I’m pointing out grouping by race is racist. By definition.

K. Let’s have this ride.

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Not really. Racism, iirc, is defined as discrimination and/or antagonism against a race/races, so I don’t think demographic grouping counts.

.

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Trident said:

DominicCobb said:

Trident said:

I’m just trying to imagine how this questioning goes. I mean do you ask the guy after the interview “Are you black? Oh, that’s interesting. I’ll check this box here then.” But then what is black exactly? I mean what % counts? 1/2? 1/4? 1/16?

And why does it matter?

It seems to me it only matters if someone’s trying to figure out what “they” think. Which obviously means that “they’re” a group. Which obviously means there’s a common thought being pulled from that group. Which obviously means someone somewhere will be tempted to say: “Black people think this way. Black people vote this way. Black people are this way.”

If that’s not grouping by race and labeling by race I’m not sure what is. I mean what’s the difference between being racist (judging based on race) and playing with racial statistics (predicting based on race)?

I think you need to do some research into why “color blindness” is considered problematic.

All I know is that I don’t spend any time wondering what guys of Irish decent like me think about something compared to guys of French decent. Seems like the reason we’re doing it with black people is because we can see the color of their skin.

I mean if we’re really interested in finding out how “they” think? We’d be scanning for what kind of tribe they came from originally. Instead of grouping them into a “group” that sort of looks the “same” to us.

I don’t know.

As long as systemic racism exists we can’t pretend that all the races are “equal” and therefore are treated exactly the same by everyone. What I mean is that, one’s situation is often very much influenced by their race, and we can’t ignore that. There are current and historic factors at play here and to neglect them out of a misguided (though well intentioned) yearning for “color blindness” is ignorant, at best.

Trust me when I say this topic has been well covered by many others (who are much smarter than me and have more relevant experience). Feel free to google.

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suspiciouscoffee said:

Not really. Racism, iirc, is defined as discrimination and/or antagonism against a race/races, so I don’t think demographic grouping counts.

Exactly. If one were to survey approval ratings from those aged 18-24, that wouldn’t be ageist.

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DominicCobb said:

Trident said:

DominicCobb said:

Trident said:

I’m just trying to imagine how this questioning goes. I mean do you ask the guy after the interview “Are you black? Oh, that’s interesting. I’ll check this box here then.” But then what is black exactly? I mean what % counts? 1/2? 1/4? 1/16?

And why does it matter?

It seems to me it only matters if someone’s trying to figure out what “they” think. Which obviously means that “they’re” a group. Which obviously means there’s a common thought being pulled from that group. Which obviously means someone somewhere will be tempted to say: “Black people think this way. Black people vote this way. Black people are this way.”

If that’s not grouping by race and labeling by race I’m not sure what is. I mean what’s the difference between being racist (judging based on race) and playing with racial statistics (predicting based on race)?

I think you need to do some research into why “color blindness” is considered problematic.

All I know is that I don’t spend any time wondering what guys of Irish decent like me think about something compared to guys of French decent. Seems like the reason we’re doing it with black people is because we can see the color of their skin.

I mean if we’re really interested in finding out how “they” think? We’d be scanning for what kind of tribe they came from originally. Instead of grouping them into a “group” that sort of looks the “same” to us.

I don’t know.

As long as systemic racism exists we can’t pretend that all the races are “equal” and therefore are treated exactly the same by everyone. What I mean is that, one’s situation is often very much influenced by their race, and we can’t ignore that. There are current and historic factors at play here and to neglect them out of a misguided (though well intentioned) yearning for “color blindness” is ignorant, at best.

Trust me when I say this topic has been well covered by many others (who are much smarter than me and have more relevant experience). Feel free to google.

I don’t really care if the topic’s been talked to death. I don’t really care what 50 big brains in a room think atm.

All I was pointing out was when something’s done up by race it’s racist. It doesn’t matter why. It doesn’t matter what the intentions are. It doesn’t matter if everyone nods and accepts that it’s ok.

And let’s be clear. I didn’t ever say it wasn’t ok. I was mostly pointing out it’s a thing we do.

K. Let’s have this ride.

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suspiciouscoffee said:

Not really. Racism, iirc, is defined as discrimination and/or antagonism against a race/races, so I don’t think demographic grouping counts.

Racism is defining something. Or assuming something. Or judging something. Based on race. It doesn’t even have to be a negative.

It’s just a way to categorize. If it’s done by race? It’s based on an assumption of that race.

K. Let’s have this ride.

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DominicCobb said:

suspiciouscoffee said:

Not really. Racism, iirc, is defined as discrimination and/or antagonism against a race/races, so I don’t think demographic grouping counts.

Exactly. If one were to survey approval ratings from those aged 18-24, that wouldn’t be ageist.

If the purpose of asking was in order to make up a way to rope that age group into some sort of “plan”? Then I’d say it probably would have a flavor of ageism going for it.

K. Let’s have this ride.

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Trident said:

DominicCobb said:

Trident said:

DominicCobb said:

Trident said:

I’m just trying to imagine how this questioning goes. I mean do you ask the guy after the interview “Are you black? Oh, that’s interesting. I’ll check this box here then.” But then what is black exactly? I mean what % counts? 1/2? 1/4? 1/16?

And why does it matter?

It seems to me it only matters if someone’s trying to figure out what “they” think. Which obviously means that “they’re” a group. Which obviously means there’s a common thought being pulled from that group. Which obviously means someone somewhere will be tempted to say: “Black people think this way. Black people vote this way. Black people are this way.”

If that’s not grouping by race and labeling by race I’m not sure what is. I mean what’s the difference between being racist (judging based on race) and playing with racial statistics (predicting based on race)?

I think you need to do some research into why “color blindness” is considered problematic.

All I know is that I don’t spend any time wondering what guys of Irish decent like me think about something compared to guys of French decent. Seems like the reason we’re doing it with black people is because we can see the color of their skin.

I mean if we’re really interested in finding out how “they” think? We’d be scanning for what kind of tribe they came from originally. Instead of grouping them into a “group” that sort of looks the “same” to us.

I don’t know.

As long as systemic racism exists we can’t pretend that all the races are “equal” and therefore are treated exactly the same by everyone. What I mean is that, one’s situation is often very much influenced by their race, and we can’t ignore that. There are current and historic factors at play here and to neglect them out of a misguided (though well intentioned) yearning for “color blindness” is ignorant, at best.

Trust me when I say this topic has been well covered by many others (who are much smarter than me and have more relevant experience). Feel free to google.

I don’t really care if the topic’s been talked to death. I don’t really care what 50 big brains in a room think atm.

What you’re actually saying is that you don’t care what people with different perspectives (perhaps more relevant perspectives) think.

All I was pointing out was when something’s done up by race it’s racist. It doesn’t matter why. It doesn’t matter what the intentions are. It doesn’t matter if everyone nods and accepts that it’s ok.

You say it like this is an objective matter. And it is, you’re just wrong.

And let’s be clear. I didn’t ever say it wasn’t ok. I was mostly pointing out it’s a thing we do.

I don’t even know what this means.