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The Force Awakens: Starlight (V1.1 Released!) — Page 10

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http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/A-Collaborative-Star-Wars-Saga-Edit/id/60169/page/4#1195189

This thread got me thinking about another angle for the Starlight project.

I was playing with the idea of having Rey see bits of the Starkiller firing which happen later in the movie as a way of linking the Starkiller to Ren’s ambition to be more like Vader, but it could also serve the purpose of revealing the true capabilities of Starkiller Base. Basically, for the first half of the movie Starkiller is established to be merely a way for the First Order to create its starships. This could be visually communicated by having a bunch of Star Destroyers issuing forth from the big circular opening. Only after Rey’s interrogation and Ren’s vision is it known that the base can also be used as a weapon.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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So you’re saying they would have ships inside what is basically a gun barrel? That doesn’t seem very practical. If you want to convince anyone that the bad guys’ big death star like planet is in fact not a death star (but secretly it is) then I think you might need to redesign it or show it from a different angle. No trench, no big circular opening.

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Sorry if this post feels to the point, I lost my initial write up for this post.

I really like this idea because while it removes the repetition of the Death Star-trope, it also provides a solid in-movie explanation for how the First Order got their resources and grew so much without the Republic noticing, and it’s a nice inversion of the Death Star as well (weapon of destruction, machine of creation). I still think it would be a challenge to pull off seamlessly, but it would be really effective if you could.

I hope you don’t mind, but I would like to suggest to you an alternative approach to this as well.

I think by having the Republic already be destroyed in the crawl, you’re back to Rebels vs Empire before the movie even really begins. And if the base ends up being a laser in the end, I also feel it sort of goes against the effort of setting it up as something else in the first place.

So I think Starkiller should either stay as just a superweapon, or…

Let it just be a star forge. Just not both.
You could retain the same basic structure as TFA: Restructured, so you can use as much of those assets as possible, but instead of a super laser destroying the Republic, the First Order fleet does.

So how can this realistically be set up?
I really like your idea of seeing the base spit out Star Destroyers. If you can make at least one shot like that, that alone would visibly demonstrate its function. You also could establish the fleet it has created by having dozens of Star Destroyers in orbit around Starkiller in any establishing shots of it.

Later in the film, after Hux gives his big speech, we see the fleet jump into hyperspace. This would also explain why Starkiller Base felt pretty light on security when Finn, Han and Black Squadron show up.

Then, around or when Han dies, you cut to the First Order fleet arriving at Hosnian Prime. You could retool some footage from TLJ, specifically with the Dreadnought, to show that one or multiple Dreadnoughts are bombarding the surface of the capital (or at least wherever the Senate is located on the planet).
And this way you could still use the shot of Kor Sella on the surface reacting, since both the Starkiller laser and the Dreadnought lasers are red.

It would require you to possibly rotoscope the First Order ships for use in different shots, or paint out the D’Qar asteroid field and replace D’Qar with Coruscant, maybe, since there really isn’t a good image of Hosnian Prime I don’t believe. But you could focus on the Dreadnought action rather than the main fleet destroying the Republic fleet to make it a little easier, maybe an initial wide shot or two comparing them could just imply they’re heavily outnumbered, and we can assume the worst.

This would also require a new sound mix for this montage and the set up shots for the star forge itself, maybe.

The one other thing that I was worried about was the moment Kylo kills Han. The sun disappears, so would that mean the base is now useless, making their attack now pointless? I don’t think so. In that initial scene with the base ejecting a new Star Destroyer, maybe you could also establish that the base doesn’t drain the sun constantly, but in cycles. Maybe during a cycle, so much light gets absorbed that it makes the sun appear like its gone. So after the new Star Destroyer gets spit out, you could reverse the shot of the sun beginning to drain and make it flicker/shimmer back to full brightness.

Then, sometime in the third act, the base could start draining the sun again, which will eventually make the sun appear to fade away during Kylo’s moment. And when the base blows up, you could either assume the primary sun is off camera, or, have it be in the distance while Starkiller collapses and you could have a nice little twin suns shot when it explodes.

The hardest part is making the First Order invasion work. But with the footage from TLJ, I think it is possible.

And if you can set up the function of the base visually, I don’t even think you need to mention it in the opening crawl, which is a good thing since you can avoid the danger of it being overloaded with information.

Earlier in the same thread, Anakin Starkiller helped give me an idea for yet another attempt at a section of the opening crawl, specifically the second paragraph:

“Convinced that First Order spies have infiltrated the New Republic, General Leia Organa forms a covert Resistance…”

Certain words could be swapped:
Convinced/Fearing/Believing
spies/sympathizers
infiltrated/influenced

This would give a little more context as why it needed to be a small resistance fighting the First Order rather than just the New Republic, and it would also make the New Republic seem less incompetent or ignorant, but rather, compromised. I just feel like this explains the political situation in a pretty concise way. I know we’ve tried to make this opening crawl work SO MANY TIMES. Rian Johnson said when he was doing TLJ, the first thing he worked on and the last thing he worked on was the opening crawl, and I completely understand why. It took him 2+ years to make that work!

I know this is pretty crazy, and I know a lot of people didn’t like Starkiller Base, but I think this might be one of the more possible routes to take without sacrificing too much of the narrative’s structure. So I would say either try something like this or just stick with Starkiller being a super laser.

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Good ideas here, and thanks for the big write-up RL. Since I’m considering removing the incursion on the Resistance base entirely, that opens up the footage for such an attack on Hosnian Prime. It would also be a good opportunity to establish Rose’s sister and her sacrifice, foreshadowing Rose’s inclusion in the plot of TLJ. However, it might be beyond my abilities to essentially generate an entirely new scene, however cool it would be to see. I’ll keep it in mind, since it would solve a lot of issues going forward.

As for the look of the base being too much like a weapon, yeah that’s a problem. Since there’s a huge trench along the equator covered in metal panels, I could remove some of the panels and add flashes of light from them, as if they were docking bays where these Star Destroyers were being constructed. The giant gun-looking thing could be constantly venting smoke and lit from within with an orange light, as if it were just a vent or smokestack for these massive metalworks. Ironically that would allow me to revert back to the original shot of the smoking gun barrel in the X-wing approach.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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 (Edited)

It could be cool if you place several star destroyers (perhaps some half finished) in the trench, to imply that the trench is where the destroyers are built or at least finished, evoking the image of ships/boats in dry docks. Add some faint industrial sounds and perhaps somehow show that work is being done.

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 (Edited)

Since the idea of the base charging their weapon is the ‘ticking clock’ for the final act of TFA, I don’t think the weapon can be eliminated without negatively impacting the film. So with this in mind, and considering the idea of having the Star Destroyers attack the Hosnian system, the only way I can see it working is that the Starkiller is targeting the Resistance base like in the original cut.

I imagine the sequence of events to be as follows:
Snoke’s first scene is moved to after Maz’s castle, and Hux advocates a strike on the Republic. Snoke sends him to oversee preparations for the Star Destroyer incursion.
After the Han/Leia talk, Rey is interrogated by Ren and she sees his vision of the weapon in operation.
Directly after this, Hux makes his speech, leaving out the part about the ‘fierce machine’ bringing an end to the Republic and the fleet. Intercut with this are snippets of the Mega Destroyer incursion and the destruction of the capitol city, with a desperate defense by the republic bombers and the sacrifice of Rose’s sister.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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For inserting Paige, in the deleted scene where her gun jams, there’s a few reaction shots of just her in the cockpit. I think that that could be a replacement for cutaways to X-Wing cockpits. Instead of cutting to a no-name extra saying “We got company” or some such, it could be a cutaway to Paige in the cockpit.

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Good idea. I quite like that deleted scene. Shame it’s not finished, but parts could be used.

Recently I’ve been thinking about something several people have said concerning TFA. When the crew gets to Maz’s castle, the energy goes out of the movie for them, and I feel this as well. For me it starts when we hear the music of the castle, and it completely destroys the mood. Nothing against Lin-Manuel Miranda, I like his other work, but this is a big miss that I’ve come to realize deflates the scene.

But what could replace it? The place is seemingly a dingy den of pirates and lowlifes, but in the details we see a lot more ornate metalwork and clutter that looks like it belongs in an Eastern-European church:
See 1
See
So perhaps something more Byzantine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zPc47GOH8s
…but it would have to also sound ‘spacey’. Any suggestions?

On a related note, since I will probably have the crawl state that the First Order is only attacking remnants of Jedi power, I could change the subtitled Pirate dialogue with Finn to be something about them being safe, since they are not affiliated with the Jedi. Then when Rey finds the lightsaber in the basement, it’s an indication that the castle is legitimately unsafe for our heroes, and allows more sympathy with Rey as she flees the source of this danger.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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 (Edited)

I always love hearing your ideas for changes. I’m curious about your current plans for the Starlight Project. From our conversation about Starkiller Base and with this, it sounds like you’re planning a very radical edit of the films, and I’m wondering if you had laid out your plans for the TFA & TLJ, or if you haven’t, could discuss what major changes you would like to make.

JEDIT: If there are other changes you have been considering that haven’t been mentioned in your initial posts.

I had never really thought about the music but that is an interesting idea. I would suggest possibly adding instruments to that Byzantine track or applying some kind of effects to it, or maybe what kind of music you could find from Star Wars games, or the Clone Wars. How difficult would it be to remove the music though? Does it not play beneath any important dialogue?

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I think the music is mostly in the opening few seconds, and stops abruptly when Maz shouts ‘Han Solo!’ It shouldn’t be difficult to remove, the biggest hassle would be replacing the background chatter and foley. As for the music itself, I’m sure that there’s a perfect tune somewhere that is the right mix of vaguely eastern electronic Jazz. I’m hoping that someone knows of a band or a track from an obscure movie that would work.

As for the big changes to this edit, there are quite a few things I would like to do that aren’t yet reflected in the first post.

For example, I’ve considered repurposing the attack on the Resistance base for an attack on the Hosnian system in order to have Starkiller be just a shipyard, but more likely I’ll just stick with the Restructured method of destroying the Hosnian system. I’d still like to include the Starkiller as shipyard idea, and have considered some ways to do this. As far as other big ideas, I’ve planned to make the interrogation much more involved and use Force visions to reveal Kylo’s obsession with Vader and the hidden power of the Starkiller (as well as working in the deleted scene of Kylo on the Falcon). I’m also planning on restructuring the rescue of Rey to make it more dramatic, with less of her wandering around the base. Finally, and this is probably the most involved in terms of visual effects, but I’d like to extend Rey’s journey to Luke’s island planet and use a grander version of Rey’s theme in this place. Although I’m not too much of a fan of how the original movie ends, after seeing DigMod’s version where the movie ends with the jump to hyperspace I think that meeting Luke is necessary to TFA.

Now for TLJ, I also have some extreme cuts in mind (like losing the opening scenes and starting with Finn’s mission to Canto Bight), but it will be a long while yet before I get around to doing that.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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I’ll look around for some music!

Although I like the idea of changing Starkiller to a factory of sorts, I wonder if that would bring up some confusion with the whole “selling weapons to the First Order” plot in TLJ. I can imagine people asking, “Wait, didn’t the First Order build their own weapons?”

I personally don’t think the “race against the clock” aspect is really crucial to the third act of the film. It works for Restructured, if they’re targeting the Republic, because we expect the Rebels to blow it up in the knick of time, but that doesn’t happen. They fail, and it’s surprising. With the theatrical, we know they’ll succeed because we’ve seen it before. We know Leia isn’t going to die that way, especially right after Han just died. To me, blowing up Starkiller is the least interesting thing in the third act.

What if you could somehow divert that tension to the fight between Kylo Ren vs Finn and Rey? Once Poe destroys the oscillator, one could possibly intercut between the planet falling apart and the battle, and the suspense is created because we don’t know if they’ll get off the planet in time. In my opinion, the audience is more invested in those characters rather than the trench run 2.0, so it might be an interesting test.

But like I’ve said before, I feel like Starkiller should either be a weapon or a factory. Restructured makes the weapon work well, but if Starkiller could be made into a foundry, it would be really interesting to see. It having weapon-capabilities could work as a reveal, but I’d like to see it. I just imagine people thinking, “It looks like another Death Star. Oh! It’s something different! Oh wait, it is another Death Star after all.” If that makes sense.

Maybe the weapon dealers plot point could still work if Starkiller just built the capital ships and then other dealers manufactured the fighters and weapons. The smaller stuff.

I totally agree about how to end the movie. I think your idea has a great adventurous feel to it that would still retain TFA’s ending, but still give the audience a sense that it took some time to get there.

The idea of starting TLJ with Canto Bight is pretty interesting! I’d like to hear your thoughts on that. It almost makes me think of how the Indiana Jones movies start with a different adventure rather than the main adventure of the film.

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 (Edited)

My last attempt at a crawl failed to mention the Starkiller Base. Hopefully this solves the problem:

The galaxy is in crisis.
Luke Skywalker, last
of the Jedi Knights,
has vanished.

In his absence, an evil
FIRST ORDER has
emerged from a hidden
Imperial stronghold.
Armed with a weapon
of unspeakable power,
it moves to destroy the
allies of the Jedi once
and for all.

Desperate to prevent
another galactic war,
the New Republic funds
a covert RESISTANCE,
and tasks its leader with
finding their long-lost
defender among the
countless stars…

I’ve tried to cast the New Republic in a favorable light. Now it sounds like they’re the body pushing for this Resistance while still keeping the plausible deniability implied in the movie. Also, referring to the ‘allies of the Jedi’ as the First Order’s enemy explains both why the First Order is so antagonistic to the villagers and Maz’s establishment, and also why the Republic would want to keep the problem at arm’s length.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

One more thought: Since Rey claims that she’s specifically seen the island tree library in her dreams, it might be worth it to put an image of the tree into one of the Force visions.

I really like this idea, and I really like the new stab at the crawl. 😃

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Instead of using stronghold, I would also suggest just “base”. Keep it simple, or, “fortress” if you’re feeling a callback. “hidden/secret Imperial fortress”, “hidden/secret Imperial base”.

Also, I would probably say “THE evil First Order”. “An” doesn’t 100% work since you are using a proper noun. I would also suggest an adjective like “mysterious” maybe.

Also, the third paragraph works well, although I don’t think it is very clear in the film that the New Republic supported the Resistance. The original crawl does say so, but from how it is portrayed in the film, it seems the opposite. Why would Leia doubt that the NR would be believe her, as the deleted scene shows, if they put her in charge of this proxy militia? You would think they would take their information seriously.

I think you have suggested in the past crafting something to show the New Republic responding to the Resistance’s call for help, so maybe it would work with something like that.

Seeing the tree-library in her vision is a cool idea! Definitely agree with that.

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 (Edited)

Just going by the film (and deleted scenes), I see Leia’s role as someone who has significant (but not majority) support in the Senate, but who had to create the Resistance practically by herself.

The idea I’m going for here is that Leia and the Senate have worked together on the Resistance, but her demanding the Republic take action against the First Order would be the one thing that the Republic has gone to great lengths to avoid. I agree though that the wording could still be better, to make it so that Leia has more agency.

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Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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I think that is true. It seems like some senators supported her and other senators didn’t. So the New Republic supporting the Resistance or not supporting them can sort of both be true. I’m sure it was big issue in the Senate, which is interesting to me.

And that is also how it appears. While a lot of senators probably agreed that the First Order was an issue, open warfare with them was a step too far even for those that supported Leia. This political intrigue side of things is a very appealing story to me!

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 (Edited)

So I was thinking about other ways to explain the First Order’s massive power, and I got to thinking about how a small Imperial remnant would have the ability to raise a massive army and man their huge base and fleet. The explanation from the movie was that their soldiers were taken from their families at birth and trained for their roles. This is an interesting idea, and something truly different than the clones and willing recruits of the last two trilogies.

I assume that most of the armies of the First Order are sourced from the worlds still under Imperial control, but presumably some are not. Imagining that there was some low-scale epidemic of kidnapping throughout the galaxy for years is a pretty dark reading of the movie, but one that I don’t think is unwarranted. After all, this is a recurring theme in the movie, with Snoke basically turning Klyo and a bunch of Jedi children from under Luke’s nose. With that in mind, here’s an idea of what a crawl would look like:

The galaxy is in turmoil.
Citizens from worlds across
the New Republic have
mysteriously disappeared.

Among those missing is
Luke Skywalker, last of
the Jedi Knights, and in his
absence has arisen a sinister
Imperial order. Armed with
a weapon of unspeakable
power, this FIRST ORDER
moves to destroy the allies
of the Jedi once and for all.

Desperate to avoid another
deadly civil war, the New
Republic funds a covert
RESISTANCE to counter
these attacks and find
their guardian of peace
and justice amid the
countless stars…

This reading also deepens the theme shared between Rey, Finn, and Kylo, which is abandonment by parental figures, and spills over into The Last Jedi to link into the Canto Bight plot.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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Interesting idea, but I think it sets the audience up to expect that to be a focus of the movie when it ends up being minor subtext at best.

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ChainsawAsh said:

Interesting idea, but I think it sets the audience up to expect that to be a focus of the movie when it ends up being minor subtext at best.

I wouldn’t say it’s a minor subtext, since the theme is shared across all of the main characters and the search for a missing person is the main plot of the movie. But I agree that any mention should be subtle so as to shift the focus of the theme without setting up a specific thematic payoff that doesn’t arrive.

Although, Rey’s main weakness is her desire for a parental figure which can never be truly fulfilled. If the audience also expected a tearful reunion of Rey and Finn with their respective parents, it would be that much more dramatic when it is revealed that such a reunion was never to be.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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 (Edited)

Taking into consideration Ash’s critique, I’ve toned down the mysterious nature of the disappearances. Now it’s framed as an epidemic of injustice and slavery exacerbated by the lack of a new Jedi Order. I’ve also reverted the first line to the original, since it’s actually quite good.

Luke Skywalker has vanished.
In his absence, the power
of the Jedi Knights has
faded into legend.

Slavery and injustice now
stalk the galaxy, fueling
a new Imperial regime.
With the ability to realize
its grandest designs, this
FIRST ORDER moves
to destroy the allies of
the Jedi wherever they
are found.

While the Republic strives
for a diplomatic solution,
a few bold senators fund a
covert RESISTANCE to
counter these attacks and
find their guardian of
peace and justice amid
the endless stars…

I also realized that there was an easier way to clarify the Republic’s role: Simply have it fight on a different battlefield. The fact that there are no diplomatic solutions don’t completely negate the value of its attempts.

LATE JEDIT: One of the reasons I’m having such trouble writing this crawl is that I don’t want to make it sound like the First Order was a recent occurrence. In the original crawl, it sounds like the First Order arose after Luke vanished, only a few years before the start of the movie. Here’s an attempt at uncoupling the First Order from Luke’s recent activities:

The Jedi Order has fallen.
Betrayed by his students,
the famed Luke Skywalker
has vanished into exile.

Vowing to destroy their
master once and for all,
these evil warriors have
allied with the sinister
FIRST ORDER, a regime
born from the fallen
Empire and concealing
a weapon of devastating
power.

Fearing to take action
that would lead to war,
a few brave senators in
the new Republic fund
a covert RESISTANCE
to find their guardian of
peace and justice amid
the endless stars…

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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 (Edited)

I’m considering a change to Sir Ridley’s excellent version of the Maz Castle attack.

In that version Rey runs into the woods, then we see the First Order arrive, then Rey talks to BB-8 and sees the incoming ships, then Maz hands off the lightsaber and the attack starts, then Rey sees the destruction.

The trouble is that it’s a chaotic and somewhat disjointed collection of scenes, with a lot of character decisions that are made quickly or must be inferred. Rey decides to run away, then almost instantly chooses to return. Same with Finn.

One way to solve this could be to insert some version of Kylo praying to Vader between when Rey runs away and when Finn sees the destroyer. Perhaps just edit out the Vader mask (and maybe the Grandfather line), since I was planning to save that visual reveal for Rey and Kylo’s Force vision battle.

With this scene placed after Rey’s sudden decision, it gives the audience time to process her decision, as well as re-contextualizing Kylo’s thought process. Perhaps he doesn’t want to commit these atrocities, such as the destruction that he has planned for the castle, so he prays to Vader to give him this strength.

Also, it might be better to cut Maz’s ‘those beasts’ line, and replace it with the first few shots of the deleted scene where the crew is running through the tunnel and end with Han’s ‘Oh no’, accompanied by a very large crash from overhead.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)