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He is ghostly though, just not as much. A better analogy would be if Leia had the same hair color, but it was just slightly darker. As in, barely distracting at all.
The blue elephant in the room.
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 223
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No need to quibble over the precise level of distraction. Maybe less than Leia being blonde and more than her brunette hair being slightly darker. I still don’t see the validity of the reason for the aesthetic choice that is noticeable.
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No need to quibble over the precise level of distraction. Maybe less than Leia being blonde and more than her brunette hair being slightly darker. I still don’t see the validity of the reason for the aesthetic choice that is noticeable.
They probably figured most people wouldn’t care, which is almost certainly true.
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Someone on reddit got the novelization early and here are some tidbits I found interesting. Spoilers.
Very interesting, thanks. Does the novelization give any insight into the deleted scenes?
I don’t understand the explanation for not making Yoda more ghostly. That was an aspect that took away from the scene for me (and the stick bop).
Seems like it was mostly an aesthetic/emotional choice, then. It does tie in to his more physical powers though. But I still think it would have been nicer if he looked more ghostly.
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Collipso said:
Neither Star Wars nor Empire ripped off any movie whatsoever.
That’s incorrect.
https://youtu.be/sx15aXjcDZg
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Collipso said:
Neither Star Wars nor Empire ripped off any movie whatsoever.That’s incorrect.
https://youtu.be/sx15aXjcDZg
I really don’t see how being influenced by a dozen old movies is in any way comparable to blantantly recycling story elements, structure, and visuals from the same movie series. The Last Jedi has a very similar structure to TESB in that it features rebels being chased from their base (albeit a lot slower), while a Jedi student seeks out a Jedi master, with the movie ending with the good guys narrowly escaping the bad guys. It even has a battle of Hoth, even though it has been moved to the end of the film, rather than the beginning, and some red salt to visually distuinguish it somewhat from TESB. It features the throne room sequence from ROTJ, which plays out in similar fashion right down to the bad guy’s betrayal of his master, with a battle with the Imperial Guards thrown in for good measure, and a twist where the bad guy stays bad.
Then there’s the ton of visual references. Here’s the ROTJ Death Star run, one of many examples (already referenced in TFA by the way):
I think the argument can be made, that the ST is a loosely based remake of the OT, and I think it would be considered as such, if it wasn’t marketed as a set of sequels featuring the classic characters. I think I would have liked the ST a lot more, if it had just been an honest reboot, rather than a loosely based remake thinly disguised as sequels.
Edit:
With my last statement, I think I may have actually discovered a way to enjoy the ST more on it’s own terms. I guess I should just consider it a loosely based remake, rather than true sequels to the OT. That actually makes Rey’s instant Force powers more pallatable, even if she’s still a rather bland character in my view, since a loosely based remake obviously doesn’t have to adhere to the in-universe rules.
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Anchorhead said:
That’s incorrect.
https://youtu.be/sx15aXjcDZgI really don’t see how being influenced by a dozen old movies is in any way comparable to blantantly recycling story elements, structure, and visuals from the same movie series.
It’s not, nor was I addressing that issue. I was responding specifically to Collipso saying “Neither Star Wars nor Empire ripped off any movie whatsoever”. In fact, it ripped off several films. For the record; I’m not bothered by that. Not now, not in 1977.
Regarding your claim that TFA recycled elements from the OT; I can’t imagine there is anyone on here who doesn’t see that to be the case. There are all sorts of parallels between the OT and the ST. The differences seem to be more about the level at which people are bothered by them.
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Anchorhead said:
That’s incorrect.
https://youtu.be/sx15aXjcDZgI really don’t see how being influenced by a dozen old movies is in any way comparable to blantantly recycling story elements, structure, and visuals from the same movie series.
It’s not, nor was I addressing that issue. I was responding specifically to Collipso saying “Neither Star Wars nor Empire ripped off any movie whatsoever”. In fact, it ripped off several films. For the record; I’m not bothered by that. Not now, not in 1977.
Regarding your claim that TFA recycled elements from the OT; I can’t imagine there is anyone on here who doesn’t see that to be the case. There are all sorts of parallels between the OT and the ST. The differences seem to be more about the level at which people are bothered by them.
I think we disagree on the meaning of ripoff. Am I wrong in every way? Perhaps. I just don’t think that taking some very few elements from several different sources and things that influenced you and joining them together to create something unique and original is a good example of a ripoff. And that’s disregarding every 100% original aspect of Star Wars and Empire.
On the other hand I do think that recycling the plot, the visuals, and pretty much everything from another movie is a ripoff if not marketed as a soft reboot (much like what Dre said) and therefore TFA totally qualifies as that. TLJ too but not as much. The TLJ throne room scene left me astonished, for example, literally copying and pasting dialogue from RotJ. Except it doesn’t really work, because the characters don’t have any reason whatsoever to believe in what they’re saying, very different from RotJ Vader and Luke. Oh well.
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Anchorhead said:
That’s incorrect.
https://youtu.be/sx15aXjcDZgI really don’t see how being influenced by a dozen old movies is in any way comparable to blantantly recycling story elements, structure, and visuals from the same movie series.
It’s not, nor was I addressing that issue. I was responding specifically to Collipso saying “Neither Star Wars nor Empire ripped off any movie whatsoever”. In fact, it ripped off several films. For the record; I’m not bothered by that. Not now, not in 1977.
Neither am I 😉.
Regarding your claim that TFA recycled elements from the OT; I can’t imagine there is anyone on here who doesn’t see that to be the case. There are all sorts of parallels between the OT and the ST. The differences seem to be more about the level at which people are bothered by them.
I would be fine if that were the case, but I don’t believe it is. Some posters here conflate recycling Star Wars tropes with being influenced by other film makers, and works of fiction, thus arguing in a sense, that the current creators are more or less doing what Lucas did in 1977. Lucas’ Star Wars wasn’t original in their view, because he was obviously influenced by many sources while making the first film, and it’s sequels. The current creators are doing the same thing, they argue, but they just happened to be influenced by Star Wars movies. My argument is Lucas didn’t invent most of the ingredients, but he did invent a new and original recipe, and one that has resulted in some very tasty meals, while the current creators deliberately stuck to Lucas’ old recipe, and added a few twists to disguise the fact that they couldn’t come up with a new recipe. The meal might still be edible, but it’s just so similar to Lucas’ recipe in many respects, while altering a few key aspects of Lucas’ recipe for the worse, that I can’t shake the notion, that I’ve tasted far better versions of it in the past.
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Anchorhead said:
That’s incorrect.
https://youtu.be/sx15aXjcDZgI really don’t see how being influenced by a dozen old movies is in any way comparable to blantantly recycling story elements, structure, and visuals from the same movie series.
It’s not, nor was I addressing that issue. I was responding specifically to Collipso saying “Neither Star Wars nor Empire ripped off any movie whatsoever”. In fact, it ripped off several films. For the record; I’m not bothered by that. Not now, not in 1977.
Regarding your claim that TFA recycled elements from the OT; I can’t imagine there is anyone on here who doesn’t see that to be the case. There are all sorts of parallels between the OT and the ST. The differences seem to be more about the level at which people are bothered by them.
I would be fine if that were the case, but I don’t believe it is. Some posters here conflate recycling Star Wars tropes with being influenced by other film makers, and works of fiction, thus arguing in a sense, that the current creators are more or less doing what Lucas did in 1977. Lucas’ Star Wars wasn’t original in their view, because he was obviously influenced by many sources while making the first film, and it’s sequels. The current creators are doing the same thing, theu argue, but they just happened to be influenced by Star Wars movies. My argument is Lucas didn’t invent the ingredients, but he did invent a new and original recipe, and one that has resulted in some very tasty meals, while the current creators deliberately used Lucas’ recipe and added a few twists to disguise the fact that they couldn’t come up with a new recipe. The meal might still be edible, but it’s just so similar to Lucas’ recipe, that I can’t shake the notion, that I’ve tasted far better versions of it in the past.
Brilliant.
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Anchorhead said:
That’s incorrect.
https://youtu.be/sx15aXjcDZgI really don’t see how being influenced by a dozen old movies is in any way comparable to blantantly recycling story elements, structure, and visuals from the same movie series.
It’s not, nor was I addressing that issue. I was responding specifically to Collipso saying “Neither Star Wars nor Empire ripped off any movie whatsoever”. In fact, it ripped off several films. For the record; I’m not bothered by that. Not now, not in 1977.
Regarding your claim that TFA recycled elements from the OT; I can’t imagine there is anyone on here who doesn’t see that to be the case. There are all sorts of parallels between the OT and the ST. The differences seem to be more about the level at which people are bothered by them.
I would be fine if that were the case, but I don’t believe it is. Some posters here conflate recycling Star Wars tropes with being influenced by other film makers, and works of fiction, thus arguing in a sense, that the current creators are more or less doing what Lucas did in 1977. Lucas’ Star Wars wasn’t original in their view, because he was obviously influenced by many sources while making the first film, and it’s sequels. The current creators are doing the same thing, theu argue, but they just happened to be influenced by Star Wars movies. My argument is Lucas didn’t invent the ingredients, but he did invent a new and original recipe, and one that has resulted in some very tasty meals, while the current creators deliberately used Lucas’ recipe and added a few twists to disguise the fact that they couldn’t come up with a new recipe. The meal might still be edible, but it’s just so similar to Lucas’ recipe, that I can’t shake the notion, that I’ve tasted far better versions of it in the past.
Brilliant.
+1
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Anchorhead said:
That’s incorrect.
https://youtu.be/sx15aXjcDZgI really don’t see how being influenced by a dozen old movies is in any way comparable to blantantly recycling story elements, structure, and visuals from the same movie series.
It’s not, nor was I addressing that issue. I was responding specifically to Collipso saying “Neither Star Wars nor Empire ripped off any movie whatsoever”. In fact, it ripped off several films. For the record; I’m not bothered by that. Not now, not in 1977.
Regarding your claim that TFA recycled elements from the OT; I can’t imagine there is anyone on here who doesn’t see that to be the case. There are all sorts of parallels between the OT and the ST. The differences seem to be more about the level at which people are bothered by them.
I would be fine if that were the case, but I don’t believe it is. Some posters here conflate recycling Star Wars tropes with being influenced by other film makers, and works of fiction, thus arguing in a sense, that the current creators are more or less doing what Lucas did in 1977. Lucas’ Star Wars wasn’t original in their view, because he was obviously influenced by many sources while making the first film, and it’s sequels. The current creators are doing the same thing, theu argue, but they just happened to be influenced by Star Wars movies. My argument is Lucas didn’t invent the ingredients, but he did invent a new and original recipe, and one that has resulted in some very tasty meals, while the current creators deliberately used Lucas’ recipe and added a few twists to disguise the fact that they couldn’t come up with a new recipe. The meal might still be edible, but it’s just so similar to Lucas’ recipe, that I can’t shake the notion, that I’ve tasted far better versions of it in the past.
Brilliant.
+1
-1, net result no impact.
Show me a star wars movie that hasn’t recycled star wars tropes. I don’t know why that is such a turn off.
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Anchorhead said:
That’s incorrect.
https://youtu.be/sx15aXjcDZgI really don’t see how being influenced by a dozen old movies is in any way comparable to blantantly recycling story elements, structure, and visuals from the same movie series.
It’s not, nor was I addressing that issue. I was responding specifically to Collipso saying “Neither Star Wars nor Empire ripped off any movie whatsoever”. In fact, it ripped off several films. For the record; I’m not bothered by that. Not now, not in 1977.
Regarding your claim that TFA recycled elements from the OT; I can’t imagine there is anyone on here who doesn’t see that to be the case. There are all sorts of parallels between the OT and the ST. The differences seem to be more about the level at which people are bothered by them.
I would be fine if that were the case, but I don’t believe it is. Some posters here conflate recycling Star Wars tropes with being influenced by other film makers, and works of fiction, thus arguing in a sense, that the current creators are more or less doing what Lucas did in 1977. Lucas’ Star Wars wasn’t original in their view, because he was obviously influenced by many sources while making the first film, and it’s sequels. The current creators are doing the same thing, theu argue, but they just happened to be influenced by Star Wars movies. My argument is Lucas didn’t invent the ingredients, but he did invent a new and original recipe, and one that has resulted in some very tasty meals, while the current creators deliberately used Lucas’ recipe and added a few twists to disguise the fact that they couldn’t come up with a new recipe. The meal might still be edible, but it’s just so similar to Lucas’ recipe, that I can’t shake the notion, that I’ve tasted far better versions of it in the past.
Brilliant.
+1
The reboot criticism for me only really applies to TFA. I’d argue that any major similarities within TLJ are mostly the fault of what TFA left Rian Johnson with and I consider Johnson’s efforts to redirect the story in a satisfying direction was successful. But it was bold and different which means it won’t work for some people. Different does not equal good. It worked for me but to others I can totally understand them having deep issues with TLJ and Luke’s characterization. Is their opinion any less valid? Absolutely not. Dre or Collipso aren’t misinterpreting the movie. They understand exactly what it’s saying and simply came to a different conclusion than me.
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Anchorhead said:
That’s incorrect.
https://youtu.be/sx15aXjcDZgI really don’t see how being influenced by a dozen old movies is in any way comparable to blantantly recycling story elements, structure, and visuals from the same movie series.
It’s not, nor was I addressing that issue. I was responding specifically to Collipso saying “Neither Star Wars nor Empire ripped off any movie whatsoever”. In fact, it ripped off several films. For the record; I’m not bothered by that. Not now, not in 1977.
Regarding your claim that TFA recycled elements from the OT; I can’t imagine there is anyone on here who doesn’t see that to be the case. There are all sorts of parallels between the OT and the ST. The differences seem to be more about the level at which people are bothered by them.
I would be fine if that were the case, but I don’t believe it is. Some posters here conflate recycling Star Wars tropes with being influenced by other film makers, and works of fiction, thus arguing in a sense, that the current creators are more or less doing what Lucas did in 1977. Lucas’ Star Wars wasn’t original in their view, because he was obviously influenced by many sources while making the first film, and it’s sequels. The current creators are doing the same thing, theu argue, but they just happened to be influenced by Star Wars movies. My argument is Lucas didn’t invent the ingredients, but he did invent a new and original recipe, and one that has resulted in some very tasty meals, while the current creators deliberately used Lucas’ recipe and added a few twists to disguise the fact that they couldn’t come up with a new recipe. The meal might still be edible, but it’s just so similar to Lucas’ recipe, that I can’t shake the notion, that I’ve tasted far better versions of it in the past.
Brilliant.
+1
-1, net result no impact.
Show me a star wars movie that hasn’t recycled star wars tropes. I don’t know why that is such a turn off.
Every Star Wars movie before the ST has provided plenty of new story threads, and new visuals. The ST is unique in the sense that it (IMO delibirately) recycles complete plot sequences, story structure and visuals. All sequels and prequels made by Lucas contained new stories. They were not loose remakes of the previous films. While for TLJ it’s less obvious than for TFA, there’s no denying TLJ’s story structure echos TESB’s, while it also incorporates entire story sequences from the OT, such as the battle of Hoth, albeit with a twist, and the ROTJ throne room sequence, again with a twist.
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Anchorhead said:
That’s incorrect.
https://youtu.be/sx15aXjcDZgI really don’t see how being influenced by a dozen old movies is in any way comparable to blantantly recycling story elements, structure, and visuals from the same movie series.
It’s not, nor was I addressing that issue. I was responding specifically to Collipso saying “Neither Star Wars nor Empire ripped off any movie whatsoever”. In fact, it ripped off several films. For the record; I’m not bothered by that. Not now, not in 1977.
Neither am I 😉.
Regarding your claim that TFA recycled elements from the OT; I can’t imagine there is anyone on here who doesn’t see that to be the case. There are all sorts of parallels between the OT and the ST. The differences seem to be more about the level at which people are bothered by them.
I would be fine if that were the case, but I don’t believe it is. Some posters here conflate recycling Star Wars tropes with being influenced by other film makers, and works of fiction, thus arguing in a sense, that the current creators are more or less doing what Lucas did in 1977. Lucas’ Star Wars wasn’t original in their view, because he was obviously influenced by many sources while making the first film, and it’s sequels. The current creators are doing the same thing, they argue, but they just happened to be influenced by Star Wars movies. My argument is Lucas didn’t invent most of the ingredients, but he did invent a new and original recipe, and one that has resulted in some very tasty meals, while the current creators deliberately stuck to Lucas’ old recipe, and added a few twists to disguise the fact that they couldn’t come up with a new recipe. The meal might still be edible, but it’s just so similar to Lucas’ recipe in many respects, while altering a few key aspects of Lucas’ recipe for the worse, that I can’t shake the notion, that I’ve tasted far better versions of it in the past.
I think Lucas was more than simply “influenced.” I don’t have a problem with not calling the original Star Wars original because I don’t think that’s a bad thing. It’s still my favorite film after all.
I’d just argue that no SW film since the first has had the same “new and original recipe,” including ESB and ROTJ. Their “recipes” are firmly rooted in what was done in the previous film(s). Same with the ST, only there’ve been more previous films. Are the tropes that the ST is pulling from SW tropes? Absolutely, you’ve nailed that that’s how I see it. And again, to me that just makes sense, it seems a natural extension of the franchise at this point in time (it only seems fitting for these films to be influenced by what came before, just like Lucas, only now what’s come before are SW movies - films which have had an enormous impact on cinema in general and this genre of storytelling specifically).
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Also,
Story =/= Plot
(I feel like I should make this my signature so I don’t have to keep saying it)
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Anchorhead said:
That’s incorrect.
https://youtu.be/sx15aXjcDZgI really don’t see how being influenced by a dozen old movies is in any way comparable to blantantly recycling story elements, structure, and visuals from the same movie series.
It’s not, nor was I addressing that issue. I was responding specifically to Collipso saying “Neither Star Wars nor Empire ripped off any movie whatsoever”. In fact, it ripped off several films. For the record; I’m not bothered by that. Not now, not in 1977.
Regarding your claim that TFA recycled elements from the OT; I can’t imagine there is anyone on here who doesn’t see that to be the case. There are all sorts of parallels between the OT and the ST. The differences seem to be more about the level at which people are bothered by them.
I would be fine if that were the case, but I don’t believe it is. Some posters here conflate recycling Star Wars tropes with being influenced by other film makers, and works of fiction, thus arguing in a sense, that the current creators are more or less doing what Lucas did in 1977. Lucas’ Star Wars wasn’t original in their view, because he was obviously influenced by many sources while making the first film, and it’s sequels. The current creators are doing the same thing, theu argue, but they just happened to be influenced by Star Wars movies. My argument is Lucas didn’t invent the ingredients, but he did invent a new and original recipe, and one that has resulted in some very tasty meals, while the current creators deliberately used Lucas’ recipe and added a few twists to disguise the fact that they couldn’t come up with a new recipe. The meal might still be edible, but it’s just so similar to Lucas’ recipe, that I can’t shake the notion, that I’ve tasted far better versions of it in the past.
Brilliant.
+1
-1, net result no impact.
Show me a star wars movie that hasn’t recycled star wars tropes. I don’t know why that is such a turn off.
Every Star Wars movie before the ST has provided plenty of new story threads, and new visuals. The ST is unique in the sense that it (IMO delibirately) recycles complete plot sequences, story structure and visuals. All sequels and prequels made by Lucas contained new stories. They were not loose remakes of the previous films. While for TLJ it’s less obvious than for TFA, there’s no denying TLJ’s story structure echos TESB’s, while it also incorporates entire story sequences from the OT, such as the battle of Hoth, albeit with a twist, and the ROTJ throne room sequence, again with a twist.
the ST has provided plenty of new story threads a new visuals too, or are claiming it didn’t?
You try to cover way too much with your ‘but with a twist’ argument. Only those who want to agree with you accept that argument.
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Anchorhead said:
That’s incorrect.
https://youtu.be/sx15aXjcDZgI really don’t see how being influenced by a dozen old movies is in any way comparable to blantantly recycling story elements, structure, and visuals from the same movie series.
It’s not, nor was I addressing that issue. I was responding specifically to Collipso saying “Neither Star Wars nor Empire ripped off any movie whatsoever”. In fact, it ripped off several films. For the record; I’m not bothered by that. Not now, not in 1977.
Regarding your claim that TFA recycled elements from the OT; I can’t imagine there is anyone on here who doesn’t see that to be the case. There are all sorts of parallels between the OT and the ST. The differences seem to be more about the level at which people are bothered by them.
I would be fine if that were the case, but I don’t believe it is. Some posters here conflate recycling Star Wars tropes with being influenced by other film makers, and works of fiction, thus arguing in a sense, that the current creators are more or less doing what Lucas did in 1977. Lucas’ Star Wars wasn’t original in their view, because he was obviously influenced by many sources while making the first film, and it’s sequels. The current creators are doing the same thing, theu argue, but they just happened to be influenced by Star Wars movies. My argument is Lucas didn’t invent the ingredients, but he did invent a new and original recipe, and one that has resulted in some very tasty meals, while the current creators deliberately used Lucas’ recipe and added a few twists to disguise the fact that they couldn’t come up with a new recipe. The meal might still be edible, but it’s just so similar to Lucas’ recipe, that I can’t shake the notion, that I’ve tasted far better versions of it in the past.
Brilliant.
+1
-1, net result no impact.
Show me a star wars movie that hasn’t recycled star wars tropes. I don’t know why that is such a turn off.
Every Star Wars movie before the ST has provided plenty of new story threads, and new visuals. The ST is unique in the sense that it (IMO delibirately) recycles complete plot sequences, story structure and visuals. All sequels and prequels made by Lucas contained new stories. They were not loose remakes of the previous films. While for TLJ it’s less obvious than for TFA, there’s no denying TLJ’s story structure echos TESB’s, while it also incorporates entire story sequences from the OT, such as the battle of Hoth, albeit with a twist, and the ROTJ throne room sequence, again with a twist.
the ST has provided plenty of new story threads a new visuals too
Nah but there are X-wings and some of the plot points are vaguely similar.
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Would you all just shut up and stop whining. Please let’s get back on topic.
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Anchorhead said:
That’s incorrect.
https://youtu.be/sx15aXjcDZgI really don’t see how being influenced by a dozen old movies is in any way comparable to blantantly recycling story elements, structure, and visuals from the same movie series.
It’s not, nor was I addressing that issue. I was responding specifically to Collipso saying “Neither Star Wars nor Empire ripped off any movie whatsoever”. In fact, it ripped off several films. For the record; I’m not bothered by that. Not now, not in 1977.
Regarding your claim that TFA recycled elements from the OT; I can’t imagine there is anyone on here who doesn’t see that to be the case. There are all sorts of parallels between the OT and the ST. The differences seem to be more about the level at which people are bothered by them.
I would be fine if that were the case, but I don’t believe it is. Some posters here conflate recycling Star Wars tropes with being influenced by other film makers, and works of fiction, thus arguing in a sense, that the current creators are more or less doing what Lucas did in 1977. Lucas’ Star Wars wasn’t original in their view, because he was obviously influenced by many sources while making the first film, and it’s sequels. The current creators are doing the same thing, theu argue, but they just happened to be influenced by Star Wars movies. My argument is Lucas didn’t invent the ingredients, but he did invent a new and original recipe, and one that has resulted in some very tasty meals, while the current creators deliberately used Lucas’ recipe and added a few twists to disguise the fact that they couldn’t come up with a new recipe. The meal might still be edible, but it’s just so similar to Lucas’ recipe, that I can’t shake the notion, that I’ve tasted far better versions of it in the past.
Brilliant.
+1
-1, net result no impact.
Show me a star wars movie that hasn’t recycled star wars tropes. I don’t know why that is such a turn off.
Every Star Wars movie before the ST has provided plenty of new story threads, and new visuals. The ST is unique in the sense that it (IMO delibirately) recycles complete plot sequences, story structure and visuals. All sequels and prequels made by Lucas contained new stories. They were not loose remakes of the previous films. While for TLJ it’s less obvious than for TFA, there’s no denying TLJ’s story structure echos TESB’s, while it also incorporates entire story sequences from the OT, such as the battle of Hoth, albeit with a twist, and the ROTJ throne room sequence, again with a twist.
the ST has provided plenty of new story threads a new visuals too, or are claiming it didn’t?
Some new story threads yes, but compared to previous entries far too little IMO.
You try to cover way too much with your ‘but with a twist’ argument. Only those who want to agree with you accept that argument.
Not at all. Much of TLJ is based on the premise to rethread OT story threads, but to then “surprise” people with a twist. There are very few original story lines not in some way based on the OT. The most obvious original story line is the Canto Bight sequence, which is widely considered the movie’s weakest part, since it is pointless to the overall plot.
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Would you all just shut up and stop whining. Please let’s get back on topic.
How is any of this not on-topic?
The only off-topic post I see is yours.
(and mine)
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Anchorhead said:
That’s incorrect.
https://youtu.be/sx15aXjcDZgI really don’t see how being influenced by a dozen old movies is in any way comparable to blantantly recycling story elements, structure, and visuals from the same movie series.
It’s not, nor was I addressing that issue. I was responding specifically to Collipso saying “Neither Star Wars nor Empire ripped off any movie whatsoever”. In fact, it ripped off several films. For the record; I’m not bothered by that. Not now, not in 1977.
Regarding your claim that TFA recycled elements from the OT; I can’t imagine there is anyone on here who doesn’t see that to be the case. There are all sorts of parallels between the OT and the ST. The differences seem to be more about the level at which people are bothered by them.
I would be fine if that were the case, but I don’t believe it is. Some posters here conflate recycling Star Wars tropes with being influenced by other film makers, and works of fiction, thus arguing in a sense, that the current creators are more or less doing what Lucas did in 1977. Lucas’ Star Wars wasn’t original in their view, because he was obviously influenced by many sources while making the first film, and it’s sequels. The current creators are doing the same thing, theu argue, but they just happened to be influenced by Star Wars movies. My argument is Lucas didn’t invent the ingredients, but he did invent a new and original recipe, and one that has resulted in some very tasty meals, while the current creators deliberately used Lucas’ recipe and added a few twists to disguise the fact that they couldn’t come up with a new recipe. The meal might still be edible, but it’s just so similar to Lucas’ recipe, that I can’t shake the notion, that I’ve tasted far better versions of it in the past.
Brilliant.
+1
-1, net result no impact.
Show me a star wars movie that hasn’t recycled star wars tropes. I don’t know why that is such a turn off.
Every Star Wars movie before the ST has provided plenty of new story threads, and new visuals. The ST is unique in the sense that it (IMO delibirately) recycles complete plot sequences, story structure and visuals. All sequels and prequels made by Lucas contained new stories. They were not loose remakes of the previous films. While for TLJ it’s less obvious than for TFA, there’s no denying TLJ’s story structure echos TESB’s, while it also incorporates entire story sequences from the OT, such as the battle of Hoth, albeit with a twist, and the ROTJ throne room sequence, again with a twist.
the ST has provided plenty of new story threads a new visuals too, or are claiming it didn’t?
Some new story threads yes, but compared to previous entries far too little IMO.
You try to cover way too much with your ‘but with a twist’ argument. Only those who want to agree with you accept that argument.
Not at all. Much of TLJ is based on the premise to rethread OT story threads, but to then “surprise” people with a twist. There are very few original story lines not in some way based on the OT. The most obvious original story line is the Canto Bight sequence, which is widely considered the movie’s weakest part, since it is pointless to the overall plot.
You can’t just dismiss the canto bight sequence as pointless… not sure i need to rethread that discussion though. Back out of this thread again for me…
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Anchorhead said:
That’s incorrect.
https://youtu.be/sx15aXjcDZgI really don’t see how being influenced by a dozen old movies is in any way comparable to blantantly recycling story elements, structure, and visuals from the same movie series.
It’s not, nor was I addressing that issue. I was responding specifically to Collipso saying “Neither Star Wars nor Empire ripped off any movie whatsoever”. In fact, it ripped off several films. For the record; I’m not bothered by that. Not now, not in 1977.
Regarding your claim that TFA recycled elements from the OT; I can’t imagine there is anyone on here who doesn’t see that to be the case. There are all sorts of parallels between the OT and the ST. The differences seem to be more about the level at which people are bothered by them.
I would be fine if that were the case, but I don’t believe it is. Some posters here conflate recycling Star Wars tropes with being influenced by other film makers, and works of fiction, thus arguing in a sense, that the current creators are more or less doing what Lucas did in 1977. Lucas’ Star Wars wasn’t original in their view, because he was obviously influenced by many sources while making the first film, and it’s sequels. The current creators are doing the same thing, theu argue, but they just happened to be influenced by Star Wars movies. My argument is Lucas didn’t invent the ingredients, but he did invent a new and original recipe, and one that has resulted in some very tasty meals, while the current creators deliberately used Lucas’ recipe and added a few twists to disguise the fact that they couldn’t come up with a new recipe. The meal might still be edible, but it’s just so similar to Lucas’ recipe, that I can’t shake the notion, that I’ve tasted far better versions of it in the past.
Brilliant.
+1
-1, net result no impact.
Show me a star wars movie that hasn’t recycled star wars tropes. I don’t know why that is such a turn off.
Every Star Wars movie before the ST has provided plenty of new story threads, and new visuals. The ST is unique in the sense that it (IMO delibirately) recycles complete plot sequences, story structure and visuals. All sequels and prequels made by Lucas contained new stories. They were not loose remakes of the previous films. While for TLJ it’s less obvious than for TFA, there’s no denying TLJ’s story structure echos TESB’s, while it also incorporates entire story sequences from the OT, such as the battle of Hoth, albeit with a twist, and the ROTJ throne room sequence, again with a twist.
the ST has provided plenty of new story threads a new visuals too, or are claiming it didn’t?
Some new story threads yes, but compared to previous entries far too little IMO.
You try to cover way too much with your ‘but with a twist’ argument. Only those who want to agree with you accept that argument.
Not at all. Much of TLJ is based on the premise to rethread OT story threads, but to then “surprise” people with a twist. There are very few original story lines not in some way based on the OT. The most obvious original story line is the Canto Bight sequence, which is widely considered the movie’s weakest part, since it is pointless to the overall plot.
You can’t just dismiss the canto bight sequence as pointless… not sure i need to rethread that discussion though. Back out of this thread again for me…
Samesies.
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Anchorhead said:
That’s incorrect.
https://youtu.be/sx15aXjcDZgI really don’t see how being influenced by a dozen old movies is in any way comparable to blantantly recycling story elements, structure, and visuals from the same movie series.
It’s not, nor was I addressing that issue. I was responding specifically to Collipso saying “Neither Star Wars nor Empire ripped off any movie whatsoever”. In fact, it ripped off several films. For the record; I’m not bothered by that. Not now, not in 1977.
Regarding your claim that TFA recycled elements from the OT; I can’t imagine there is anyone on here who doesn’t see that to be the case. There are all sorts of parallels between the OT and the ST. The differences seem to be more about the level at which people are bothered by them.
I would be fine if that were the case, but I don’t believe it is. Some posters here conflate recycling Star Wars tropes with being influenced by other film makers, and works of fiction, thus arguing in a sense, that the current creators are more or less doing what Lucas did in 1977. Lucas’ Star Wars wasn’t original in their view, because he was obviously influenced by many sources while making the first film, and it’s sequels. The current creators are doing the same thing, theu argue, but they just happened to be influenced by Star Wars movies. My argument is Lucas didn’t invent the ingredients, but he did invent a new and original recipe, and one that has resulted in some very tasty meals, while the current creators deliberately used Lucas’ recipe and added a few twists to disguise the fact that they couldn’t come up with a new recipe. The meal might still be edible, but it’s just so similar to Lucas’ recipe, that I can’t shake the notion, that I’ve tasted far better versions of it in the past.
Brilliant.
+1
-1, net result no impact.
Show me a star wars movie that hasn’t recycled star wars tropes. I don’t know why that is such a turn off.
Every Star Wars movie before the ST has provided plenty of new story threads, and new visuals. The ST is unique in the sense that it (IMO delibirately) recycles complete plot sequences, story structure and visuals. All sequels and prequels made by Lucas contained new stories. They were not loose remakes of the previous films. While for TLJ it’s less obvious than for TFA, there’s no denying TLJ’s story structure echos TESB’s, while it also incorporates entire story sequences from the OT, such as the battle of Hoth, albeit with a twist, and the ROTJ throne room sequence, again with a twist.
the ST has provided plenty of new story threads a new visuals too, or are claiming it didn’t?
Some new story threads yes, but compared to previous entries far too little IMO.
You try to cover way too much with your ‘but with a twist’ argument. Only those who want to agree with you accept that argument.
Not at all. Much of TLJ is based on the premise to rethread OT story threads, but to then “surprise” people with a twist. There are very few original story lines not in some way based on the OT. The most obvious original story line is the Canto Bight sequence, which is widely considered the movie’s weakest part, since it is pointless to the overall plot.
You can’t just dismiss the canto bight sequence as pointless… not sure i need to rethread that discussion though. Back out of this thread again for me…
It’s pointless to the overall plot. There’s some character development between Finn and Rose, but I didn’t think it was a very strong sequence, and it felt like filler to me. They needed Finn to have something to do, so he goes on this little mission, which allows RJ to introduce a new character, but the sequence sadly ends up going nowhere. They conveniently run into a second code breaker, who doesn’t look very trustworthy, and surprise, surprise he ends up betraying them. I guess Finn get’s his little moment with Phasma though, which sadly wasn’t properly set up. It’s not all bad, but it doesn’t improve the pacing of this 150 min movie in my view. Canto Bight looked nice though, so there’s that.
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It’s pointless to the overall plot.
I don’t know if I would say that something is pointless just because it doesn’t affect the outcome of the plot. It did affect the outcome of the plot in this case, but even if it didn’t it wouldn’t be pointless.
You can compare it to the claim that Indiana Jones doesn’t affect the plot of Raiders of the Lost Ark. Even if he doesn’t, he’s not pointless.
You can compare it to almost any episode of a sitcom like The Simpsons where each episode ends with everything back to status quo, which means you can skip any episode and you won’t know that you missed anyhing. Still, the episodes aren’t pointless.
You can say that you didn’t like it, that’s fine, but that doesn’t make it pointless either.