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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 220

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Collipso said:

doubleofive said:

I’m really proud this thread isn’t a giant bitch session about how Discovery Changed Things Now It Sucks. We may be growing up as a forum.

checks the TLJ thread

Oh, never mind.

TLJ thread isn’t that bad these days

TV’s Frink said:

Collipso said:

doubleofive said:

I’m really proud this thread isn’t a giant bitch session about how Discovery Changed Things Now It Sucks. We may be growing up as a forum.

checks the TLJ thread

Oh, never mind.

TLJ thread isn’t that bad these days

The hot takes eventually have to run out.

Wow did I ever speak too soon.

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Anchorhead said:

darthrush said:
TFA left you with a point at which everything was left off at in just the same manner that ANH did…

?
Star Wars ended with a closure to everything. Bad guys defeated, weapon destroyed, good people safe, the pirate turns trustworthy, and the princess gives the good guys their medals of honor. All is right with the universe.

TFA has one of the heroes in critical condition, one of the long time heroes killed, the main villain still at large and coming after the good guys, and one of the heroes solemnly going off to find another hero who’s gone into exile, in hopes of getting his help in the war.

I don’t see those as even remotely similar in tone of story.

ANH has one of the heroes in critical condition (R2), one of the long time heroes killed (Obi-Wan), the main villain (Empire) is still at large (just check ESB for evidence) and coming after the good guys (again, ESB shows this), and one of the heroes does go to seek help that will benefit the good fight but instead of it being shoehorned in at the end of the first film it comes in the second.

It really is just a matter of interpretation, and again, I like The Force Awakens. I just find it’s lack of creativity to be one of it’s downsides. But it is still a fun story with good characters and a compelling villain. Which is why I enjoy it. But I enjoy TLJ even more since it took more creative risks.

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

Lord of the Rings: The Darth Rush Definitives

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Um…R2 is perfectly fine in the last scene of ANH, while Finn is decidedly not in the last scene of TFA.

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ChainsawAsh said:

Um…R2 is perfectly fine in the last scene of ANH, while Finn is decidedly not in the last scene of TFA.

Yeah that’s a big stretch.

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I’d definitely agree that the ST to a certain degree is pointless and it essentially makes the events of the OT pointless. The PT may have been bad in a lot of aspects but at least they told their own story that tied into the OT rather than rehashing it while also making it redundant at the same time.

Val

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darthrush said:
ANH has one of the heroes in critical condition (R2), one of the long time heroes killed (Obi-Wan), the main villain (Empire) is still at large (just check ESB for evidence) and coming after the good guys (again, ESB shows this), and one of the heroes does go to seek help that will benefit the good fight but instead of it being shoehorned in at the end of the first film it comes in the second.

R2 was fine and in fact looked like new. Ben was someone we’d only known an hour, not 40 years/three films, and The Empire had been defeated. As far as “ESB shows this” and “check ESB for evidence” ; In 1977 there was no second story, no second film planned, and no untold story in the only film. What was years-later written and filmed was not part of the 1977 film, nor was it on the screen at the end of the only film.

Your comment was that Star Wars and TFA ended the same. They did not. Using a film that was written, shot, and released years later doesn’t apply to your statement because none of that existed in Star Wars. Empire is not on the screen at the end of Star Wars, nor is it implied in 1977.

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DominicCobb said:

Okay so now you actually are saying that. Jesus

Both are absolutely pointless to the OT, much like TESB is pointless to SW.

The difference between the PT and the ST is that there was a story to tell in the PT, and there’s no story left to be told after RotJ. If they don’t really expand every aspect of the universe and make it interesting that is, like TESB, which they did to an extent, even if rehashing the OT to a large degree.

So the ST is more pointless than the PT but of course better.

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Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Okay so now you actually are saying that. Jesus

Both are absolutely pointless to the OT, much like TESB is pointless to SW.

Okay, I was going to say, what’s to say ESB isn’t pointless.

The difference between the PT and the ST is that there was a story to tell in the PT, and there’s no story left to be told after RotJ. If they don’t really expand every aspect of the universe and make it interesting that is, like TESB, which they did to an extent, even if rehashing the OT to a large degree.

So the ST is more pointless than the PT but of course better.

I still don’t follow (and I strongly disagree that there’s no story to tell after ROTJ, which is an absurd statement). How is the PT adding anything by telling a story we already know?

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DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Okay so now you actually are saying that. Jesus

Both are absolutely pointless to the OT, much like TESB is pointless to SW.

Okay, I was going to say, what’s to say ESB isn’t pointless.

The difference between the PT and the ST is that there was a story to tell in the PT, and there’s no story left to be told after RotJ. If they don’t really expand every aspect of the universe and make it interesting that is, like TESB, which they did to an extent, even if rehashing the OT to a large degree.

So the ST is more pointless than the PT but of course better.

I still don’t follow (and I strongly disagree that there’s no story to tell after ROTJ, which is an absurd statement). How is the PT adding anything by telling a story we already know?

We might have known the outcome of the PT from the start, but it was a story that still hadn’t been told. And we’ll have to agree to disagree with the idea that there was more to be told after RotJ. I guess that in the end that’s what it comes down to.

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Well there is a story in the ST, and it is one that hasn’t been told.

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Collipso said:

imo a pointless one.

Pointless how? Is it something you yourself are not interested in or objectively pointless?

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Gotta agree with Collispo. In all technicality, the PT did expand the story of the OT and build upon the existing trilogy while the ST is simply a continuation or in a way just a soft reboot.

But yeah, you can say technically the same thing about ESB since Star Wars did leave things off so nicely.

And at the end of the day it doesn’t matter to me. I don’t watch the PT and I really enjoy the ST. That’s all it comes down to.

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

Lord of the Rings: The Darth Rush Definitives

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darthrush said:

Gotta agree with Collispo. In all technicality, the PT did expand the story of the OT and build upon the existing trilogy while the ST is simply a continuation or in a way just a soft reboot.

But yeah, you can say technically the same thing about ESB since Star Wars did leave things off so nicely.

And at the end of the day it doesn’t matter to me. I don’t watch the PT and I really enjoy the ST. That’s all it comes down to.

Exactly.

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Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

Ok so you agree ESB was pointless too.

In the context of the OT, no. In the context of SW, yes.

Yeah, it ain’t hard to understand and it’s a vastly accepted fact. After Star Wars, it felt like it ended. There are many people on this site even that don’t have ESB in their personal canon cause they like the self contained story of SW. But I really love and adore ESB so it doesn’t matter. That’s the entire point.

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

Lord of the Rings: The Darth Rush Definitives

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WW1 was called “the war to end all wars.” Then approximately 20 years later, WW2 started. There is no such thing as “and they lived happily ever after.” Life goes on. There is always another story.

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Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

Ok so you agree ESB was pointless too.

In the context of the OT, no. In the context of SW, yes.

Let’s not forget ESB told an original story, unlike the ST, which is content to recycle many OT the story threads, and in case of TLJ confuses plot twists with originality.

I have no problem admitting the PT, despite it’s poor execution of many elements, is far more interesting to me than the ST thusfar. So, for it’s originality, concepts, and design, I prefer the PT to the ST.

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rodneyfaile said:

WW1 was called “the war to end all wars.” Then approximately 20 years later, WW2 started. There is no such thing as “and they lived happily ever after.” Life goes on. There is always another story.

Exactly. Some people just didn’t get the next story they wanted.

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TV’s Frink said:

rodneyfaile said:

WW1 was called “the war to end all wars.” Then approximately 20 years later, WW2 started. There is no such thing as “and they lived happily ever after.” Life goes on. There is always another story.

Exactly. Some people just didn’t get the next story they wanted.

Some people didn’t get the backstory they wanted so PT = shit. As movies yes. As stories no.

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That’s nothing to do with what I said but ok.

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TV’s Frink said:

That’s nothing to do with what I said but ok.

I just used your reasoning for those who don’t like the story the ST tells against those who don’t like the story the PT tells.