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Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo — Page 653

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Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Having police officers in schools not only doesn’t work. It’s a negative to students, especially minority ones.

https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1109&context=njlsp

The fate of school discipline and security in America is at a crucial turning point. While the “school-to-prison pipeline” has recently received an increased amount of attention from policy makers interested in improving public education, the recent shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut led to renewed calls for the heightened security measures that helped give rise to the pipeline. This article provides clear evidence that heightened disciplinary and security measures in schools are faulty policy responses, as they have adverse impacts on the students they intend to protect and siphon resources away from policies that more effectively ensure student safety and success.

A relatively small number of the students arrested in Delaware were charged with felony offenses (approximately 9%), while the overwhelming majority of students were charged with misdemeanors and violations (approximately 91%). Moreover, students rarely faced high-level felony charges.

Although the Delaware student population is evenly split between genders, 65% of the arrested students were male, and 35% were female. Black students comprised 67% of the arrested students while only accounting for 32% of the student body. Meanwhile, white students accounted for 31% of those arrested in school, but half of the student body. Black students, therefore, were approximately three-and-a-half times more likely to be arrested than white students.

Yeah, I know, all cops are bigoted gun crazy a-holes who will shoot black kids because they hate them and shoot others for talking back. What horrible monsters cops are. I know.

I never said anything about race, although that’s a big issue too. My problem is that a sizable enough minority of cops are abusing that you can’t just assume you’re dealing with a decent one. Also, the so-called good cops are extremely quick to side with the bad cops when things go to court. A great example would be the video you shared a while back that was made by a pretty friendly-seeming cop that played the whole “Well, he was unarmed so I guess I’m sad he got shot to death but he shouldn’t have moved his hands so the cop was justified in killing him.” That’s an example of one of the “good cops” we always hear about, except in this case he’s stubbornly unwilling to call out the lethal incompetence of a deranged and violent officer. That’s why people are nervous about cops as a whole. There’s a lot more nuance to the fear than just “That cop is bad so they’re all bad!”

It is pointless to continue with this. No one will listen.

My hearing isn’t very good these days so I don’t listen well. My vision is pretty bad too for that matter, but I have been reading your posts.

So we can protect our kids, we can’t get the guns off the streets and nothing will get done. See you at the next school shooting. Have a nice day.

Oh, the “blood’s on your hands” game.

The Person in Question

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 (Edited)

You don’t even have to look to other countries to prove that gun control works. You just have to look at other states.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/01/the-geography-of-gun-deaths/69354/

And what about gun control? As of July 29 of last year, Arizona became one of only three states that allows its citizens to carry concealed weapons without a permit. Might tighter gun control laws make a difference? Our analysis suggests that they do.

The map overlays the map of firearm deaths above with gun control restrictions by state. It highlights states which have one of three gun control restrictions in place - assault weapons’ bans, trigger locks, or safe storage requirements.

Firearm deaths are significantly lower in states with stricter gun control legislation. Though the sample sizes are small, we find substantial negative correlations between firearm deaths and states that ban assault weapons (-.45), require trigger locks (-.42), and mandate safe storage requirements for guns (-.48).

States with fewer guns have fewer gun deaths, on average.

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I guess that Hawaii is the exception that proves the rule.

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 (Edited)

I think we should all be pleased we’re talking about gun control (mostly large scale banning of guns) exclusively, while some are)admitting it’s almost certainly not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Meanwhile we ignore the enormous numerous failings that could have been avoided to prevent the deaths here and at other schools. Round of applause!

The blue elephant in the room.

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Mrebo said:

I think we should all be pleased we’re talking about gun control (mostly large scale banning of guns) exclusively, while some are)admitting it’s almost certainly not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Meanwhile we ignore the enormous numerous failings that could have been avoided to prevent the deaths here and at other schools. Round of applause!

Okay, why don’t you start? What sort of failings?

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TV’s Frink said:

I guess that Hawaii is the exception that proves the rule.

Actually there were some other statistics a while back that used gun ownership rates per household rather than per adult and Hawaii ranked pretty low on that one. I’m not exactly sure how they calculated household though, so that would be something to look into. Part of the weirdness about gun stats is that the rate of gun ownership is trending downward at the same time the number of guns is going up, because while fewer people have guns, those that have them have more of them.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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CatBus said:

TV’s Frink said:

I guess that Hawaii is the exception that proves the rule.

Actually there were some other statistics a while back that used gun ownership rates per household rather than per adult and Hawaii ranked pretty low on that one. I’m not exactly sure how they calculated household though, so that would be something to look into. Part of the weirdness about gun stats is that the rate of gun ownership is trending downward at the same time the number of guns is going up, because while fewer people have guns, those that have them have more of them.

Fake Math!

The blue elephant in the room.

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Mrebo said:

CatBus said:

TV’s Frink said:

I guess that Hawaii is the exception that proves the rule.

Actually there were some other statistics a while back that used gun ownership rates per household rather than per adult and Hawaii ranked pretty low on that one. I’m not exactly sure how they calculated household though, so that would be something to look into. Part of the weirdness about gun stats is that the rate of gun ownership is trending downward at the same time the number of guns is going up, because while fewer people have guns, those that have them have more of them.

Fake Math!

Foiled again!

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Mrebo said:

I think we should all be pleased we’re talking about gun control (mostly large scale banning of guns) exclusively, while some are)admitting it’s almost certainly not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Meanwhile we ignore the enormous numerous failings that could have been avoided to prevent the deaths here and at other schools. Round of applause!

Yes you’re right, I want to get rid of guns and I insist that we stop there.

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ChainsawAsh said:

Mrebo said:

I think we should all be pleased we’re talking about gun control (mostly large scale banning of guns) exclusively, while some are)admitting it’s almost certainly not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Meanwhile we ignore the enormous numerous failings that could have been avoided to prevent the deaths here and at other schools. Round of applause!

Okay, why don’t you start? What sort of failings?

They’ve been in the news and I’ve mentioned them previously in the thread. But there were the calls to the FBI, including a post by Cruz that he wanted to be a “professional school shooter.” He was expelled from school because he had bullets in his backpack. The family he lived with knew he was deeply troubled, knew he had guns (but apparently not how many and where). Kids at school were afraid of him. People knew he tortured and killed animals. Numerous police and social service visits to the house with no actions taken. The deputy working at the school that day stayed outside when the shooting was going on.

The blue elephant in the room.

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TV’s Frink said:

Mrebo said:

I think we should all be pleased we’re talking about gun control (mostly large scale banning of guns) exclusively, while some are)admitting it’s almost certainly not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Meanwhile we ignore the enormous numerous failings that could have been avoided to prevent the deaths here and at other schools. Round of applause!

Yes you’re right, I want to get rid of guns and I insist that we stop there.

Yes, let’s get past that gate first!

The blue elephant in the room.

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Mrebo said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Mrebo said:

I think we should all be pleased we’re talking about gun control (mostly large scale banning of guns) exclusively, while some are)admitting it’s almost certainly not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Meanwhile we ignore the enormous numerous failings that could have been avoided to prevent the deaths here and at other schools. Round of applause!

Okay, why don’t you start? What sort of failings?

They’ve been in the news and I’ve mentioned them previously in the thread. But there were the calls to the FBI, including a post by Cruz that he wanted to be a “professional school shooter.” He was expelled from school because he had bullets in his backpack. The family he lived with knew he was deeply troubled, knew he had guns (but apparently not how many and where). Kids at school were afraid of him. People knew he tortured and killed animals. Numerous police and social service visits to the house with no actions taken. The deputy working at the school that day stayed outside when the shooting was going on.

Yes and these are all problems. Does anyone disagree?

No?

Ok that’s why we’re not talking about them.

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 (Edited)

Mrebo said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Mrebo said:

I think we should all be pleased we’re talking about gun control (mostly large scale banning of guns) exclusively, while some are)admitting it’s almost certainly not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Meanwhile we ignore the enormous numerous failings that could have been avoided to prevent the deaths here and at other schools. Round of applause!

Okay, why don’t you start? What sort of failings?

They’ve been in the news and I’ve mentioned them previously in the thread. But there were the calls to the FBI, including a post by Cruz that he wanted to be a “professional school shooter.” He was expelled from school because he had bullets in his backpack. The family he lived with knew he was deeply troubled, knew he had guns (but apparently not how many and where). Kids at school were afraid of him. People knew he tortured and killed animals. Numerous police and social service visits to the house with no actions taken. The deputy working at the school that day stayed outside when the shooting was going on.

But if he hadn’t had a gun, we wouldn’t be talking about this right now. We would be talking about Trump’s claim that he is, in fact, one-fourth Chinese.

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yhwx said:

Trump’s claim that he is, in fact, one-fourth Chinese.

[infinite facepalm]

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I feel like Mrebo’s argument is just the usual “don’t look at guns because we’re afraid you’ll take them away, look at all this other stuff” sleight of hand.

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yhwx said:

Mrebo said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Mrebo said:

I think we should all be pleased we’re talking about gun control (mostly large scale banning of guns) exclusively, while some are)admitting it’s almost certainly not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Meanwhile we ignore the enormous numerous failings that could have been avoided to prevent the deaths here and at other schools. Round of applause!

Okay, why don’t you start? What sort of failings?

They’ve been in the news and I’ve mentioned them previously in the thread. But there were the calls to the FBI, including a post by Cruz that he wanted to be a “professional school shooter.” He was expelled from school because he had bullets in his backpack. The family he lived with knew he was deeply troubled, knew he had guns (but apparently not how many and where). Kids at school were afraid of him. People knew he tortured and killed animals. Numerous police and social service visits to the house with no actions taken. The deputy working at the school that day stayed outside when the shooting was going on.

But if he hadn’t had a gun, we wouldn’t be talking about this right now. We would be talking about Trump’s claim that he is, in fact, one-fourth Chinese.

Wait is that true? I can’t find anything on it.

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TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

Trump’s claim that he is, in fact, one-fourth Chinese.

[infinite facepalm]

To be clear, I pulled that out of my ass as an example of a plausible headline in an alternate universe.

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TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

Mrebo said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Mrebo said:

I think we should all be pleased we’re talking about gun control (mostly large scale banning of guns) exclusively, while some are)admitting it’s almost certainly not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Meanwhile we ignore the enormous numerous failings that could have been avoided to prevent the deaths here and at other schools. Round of applause!

Okay, why don’t you start? What sort of failings?

They’ve been in the news and I’ve mentioned them previously in the thread. But there were the calls to the FBI, including a post by Cruz that he wanted to be a “professional school shooter.” He was expelled from school because he had bullets in his backpack. The family he lived with knew he was deeply troubled, knew he had guns (but apparently not how many and where). Kids at school were afraid of him. People knew he tortured and killed animals. Numerous police and social service visits to the house with no actions taken. The deputy working at the school that day stayed outside when the shooting was going on.

But if he hadn’t had a gun, we wouldn’t be talking about this right now. We would be talking about Trump’s claim that he is, in fact, one-fourth Chinese.

Wait is that true? I can’t find anything on it.

Everything is true, all the time. Except on Thursday.

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TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

Mrebo said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Mrebo said:

I think we should all be pleased we’re talking about gun control (mostly large scale banning of guns) exclusively, while some are)admitting it’s almost certainly not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Meanwhile we ignore the enormous numerous failings that could have been avoided to prevent the deaths here and at other schools. Round of applause!

Okay, why don’t you start? What sort of failings?

They’ve been in the news and I’ve mentioned them previously in the thread. But there were the calls to the FBI, including a post by Cruz that he wanted to be a “professional school shooter.” He was expelled from school because he had bullets in his backpack. The family he lived with knew he was deeply troubled, knew he had guns (but apparently not how many and where). Kids at school were afraid of him. People knew he tortured and killed animals. Numerous police and social service visits to the house with no actions taken. The deputy working at the school that day stayed outside when the shooting was going on.

But if he hadn’t had a gun, we wouldn’t be talking about this right now. We would be talking about Trump’s claim that he is, in fact, one-fourth Chinese.

Wait is that true? I can’t find anything on it.

Ha! I almost fooled you.

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yhwx said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

Trump’s claim that he is, in fact, one-fourth Chinese.

[infinite facepalm]

To be clear, I pulled that out of my ass as an example of a plausible headline in an alternate universe.

This is going on your record

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 (Edited)

dahmage said:

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

Mrebo said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Mrebo said:

I think we should all be pleased we’re talking about gun control (mostly large scale banning of guns) exclusively, while some are)admitting it’s almost certainly not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Meanwhile we ignore the enormous numerous failings that could have been avoided to prevent the deaths here and at other schools. Round of applause!

Okay, why don’t you start? What sort of failings?

They’ve been in the news and I’ve mentioned them previously in the thread. But there were the calls to the FBI, including a post by Cruz that he wanted to be a “professional school shooter.” He was expelled from school because he had bullets in his backpack. The family he lived with knew he was deeply troubled, knew he had guns (but apparently not how many and where). Kids at school were afraid of him. People knew he tortured and killed animals. Numerous police and social service visits to the house with no actions taken. The deputy working at the school that day stayed outside when the shooting was going on.

But if he hadn’t had a gun, we wouldn’t be talking about this right now. We would be talking about Trump’s claim that he is, in fact, one-fourth Chinese.

Wait is that true? I can’t find anything on it.

Everything is true, all the time. Except on Tuesday.

How complacent you’ve become. Already accepting that every day will always be Tuesday.

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Mrebo said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Mrebo said:

I think we should all be pleased we’re talking about gun control (mostly large scale banning of guns) exclusively, while some are)admitting it’s almost certainly not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Meanwhile we ignore the enormous numerous failings that could have been avoided to prevent the deaths here and at other schools. Round of applause!

Okay, why don’t you start? What sort of failings?

They’ve been in the news and I’ve mentioned them previously in the thread. But there were the calls to the FBI, including a post by Cruz that he wanted to be a “professional school shooter.” He was expelled from school because he had bullets in his backpack. The family he lived with knew he was deeply troubled, knew he had guns (but apparently not how many and where). Kids at school were afraid of him. People knew he tortured and killed animals. Numerous police and social service visits to the house with no actions taken. The deputy working at the school that day stayed outside when the shooting was going on.

Yeah, those were the things I thought you meant. Those things have been talked about, but there’s no real debate to be had about any of them since everyone’s on the same page pretty much across the board, whereas there’s still a debate to be had about guns.

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Giant Trump got past the secret service but chickened out at the last moment.

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TV’s Frink said:

I feel like Mrebo’s argument is just the usual “don’t look at guns because we’re afraid you’ll take them away, look at all this other stuff” sleight of hand.

Yeah, pretty much.