The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 213

DrDre said:

Matt.F said:

This has already been discussed - Dre already went through this ‘hyperspace kamikaze’ plothole many pages ago. He got shut down thoroughly and convincingly by Adywan and others at the time. That is why I used the word trolling, by posting up a ‘mocking’ cartoon image (which is about as funny as a funeral) and was just designed to mock and denigrate the movie. Poor show.

Not at all. That discussion was about why the hyperspace kamikaze wasn’t used in general, considering its destructive potential, like against the Death Star in ANH, and was shut down only on your mind. This argument pertains specifically to TLJ’s internal logic, and no it is not illogical to assume there are ships in the FO fleet, that are large enough to destroy a rebel cruiser, or at the very least incapacitate it.

Talk about going round and round. You had it out very thoroughly over this ‘supposed’ plothole already, and if this forum had a search function it would be easy to re-read. But to tell the truth it wasn’t that thrilling a discussion the first time around, and adding in a “hilarious” cartoon hasn’t improved it the second time.

Frank your Majesty said:

DrDre said:

Frank your Majesty said:

Collipso said:

Frank your Majesty said:

Collipso said:

Frank your Majesty said:

In that case: An unmanned kamikaze ship still needs the mass and size of a capital ship, it needs sublight engines and a hyperdrive and it needs an advanced piloting system. It has to stay with the main fleet in case it’s needed, so it costs additional money to operate. Why not buy a regular ship for the same price, which is much more versatile and not limited to one single use? And don’t tell me “it’s just a joke”.

I’m pretty sure a small TIE Fighter could do some damage to the Rebel cruiser.

In Rogue One, we see that the smaller rebel ships didn’t do much damage to the Stardestroyer, when they crashed in hyperspace, so no.

I was talking about the bridge.

So, you assume they can aim their hyperspace jump to directly fly into the bridge?

They can make calculations to avoid stars and what not en route, I think a bridge should not be much of a problem.

Because avoiding a huge star is the same as aiming at a tiny bridge.

No, but avoiding stars, planets and all sorts of other objects seems pretty advanced. I don’t see why aiming a ship at a bridge would be so difficult.

Image-only post incoming. It is on-topic (well at least certainly relevant to the current discussion) and adds value.

Frank your Majesty said:

You can avoid hitting a house with your car, so it shouldn’t be a problem for you to attach a thread to your car and fit it in the eye of a needle, which is placed on the road, while going 100 mph.

WRONG THREAD

TV’s Frink said:

I would have been happy with just leaving it with the cartoon, which may have left a smile on some people’s faces, and gotten a meh by others, but it was not to be.

So, I will take the high ground (pun intended), and leave the discussion with this very on-topic meme:

Miss click.

Collipso said:

Miss click.

so, you missed the “report button” ?

dahmage said:

Collipso said:

Miss click.

so, you missed the “report button” ?

I wish that was the case, major.

If there’s one thing we know about the Empire/First Order, it’s that they are never ever over confident.

Shut up loser you know Tarkin wouldn’t hesitate in evacuating in their moment of triumph, and would ALWAYS overestimate our chances, just in case. You know, be ready for anything.

Collipso said:

Miss click.

Show some respect and capitalize her last name thank you very much.

I do think that those who defend the movie go out of their ways to defend it. I mean, sure you can disagree the weaponizing hyperspace created inconsistencies, but you don’t have to disregard everything the opposite side of the discussion is saying because there IS value in what they’re saying. Dre presented some very good arguments. He also posted a meme to illustrate and make it clear in a lighthearted way what he was trying to say. His arguments were indeed very good and did convince me.

I mean, I think Rian got to several points where he didn’t know what to write, so he had to come up with something quickly, such as the slow sublight chase, or Holdo not telling Poe the plan.

See from my perspective these kinds of complaints are from people going out of their way to criticize.

chyron8472 said:

I suppose it comes down to whether you decide you want to like it or not. If you want to like it, you focus more on why you like it; if you don’t, you focus more on why you don’t. You can certainly discuss flaws in something you like, but primarily after it’s been established that the thing you like is the thing they like. Kind of like picking on a mutual friend behind their back, as opposed to listening to someone who hates their guts.

It’s not even really that. It’s just nitpicking I can’t stand. Yeah, you can nitpick and find seeming logic flaws in the plot or whatever. But it’s just as easy to find reasonable excuses for them. For me, these kind of little things ultimately don’t matter in regards to the movie’s quality.

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

I suppose it comes down to whether you decide you want to like it or not. If you want to like it, you focus more on why you like it; if you don’t, you focus more on why you don’t. You can certainly discuss flaws in something you like, but primarily after it’s been established that the thing you like is the thing they like. Kind of like picking on a mutual friend behind their back, as opposed to listening to someone who hates their guts.

It’s not even really that. It’s just nitpicking I can’t stand. Yeah, you can nitpick and find seeming logic flaws in the plot or whatever. But it’s just as easy to find reasonable excuses for them. For me, these kind of little things ultimately don’t matter in regards to the movie’s quality.

That depends. The criticism of the logic behind the hyperspace kamikaze might be a bit of a nitpick, but it is a symptom of larger issues surrounding the slow chase, which is the backbone of the film. That entire sequence is built around the idea that all the rebel cruisers are being chased at a slow pace by the enemy, who conveniently cannot catch up or hit the good guys with their lasers or torpedos for 75% of the runtime of the movie (I can’t remember, if the film provided an explanation for why Hux didn’t send a squadron of fighters, which were very effective earlier in the film), with the element of suspense centered around the idea, the good guys are running out of fuel. Add to this the mutiny, which is based on two rebel leaders not communicating, leading to a side mission, that ultimately goes nowhere. I don’t think this largely plot driven sequence was well written, even if several parts had some entertainment value. Despite not liking the way Luke was handled or for what purpose, I think RJ did much better on the Ach-To and throne room sequences, which were both clever and suspenseful, as was the final confrontation between Luke and Kylo.

OutboundFlight said:

Maybe Holdo was the first person to think up the kamakizee lightspeed attack. As others have pointed out kamakizee is only useful in certain situations, it makes sense no one would have thought of it until now. They did say she was a brilliant general, and Poe + Hux (both experienced in the military) are confused when she turns the ship around.

That seems highly unlikely. Self-sacrifice is probably older than the discovery of fire, and kamikazee was actually fairly widely used by the Japanese in WWII. If we have invented it many times over throughout our earthly history, I would expect Holdo not to be the first to think of it in the much more advanced GFFA. Considering the energy released on impact is proportionate to the mass times the velocity squared, if hyperspace is really nothing more than traveling very fast in real space and time, as it appears to be in TLJ, then an obstacle travelling at lightspeed would obviously inflict the most damage. A lightspeed torpedo should therefore logically exist. Not having it would be the earthly equivalent of having super sonic planes, whilst inexplicably not having super sonic missiles.

Edit: consider that an object of 1kg travelling at the speed of light would have a the same energy released on impact as a nuclear bomb.

DrDre said:

OutboundFlight said:

Maybe Holdo was the first person to think up the kamakizee lightspeed attack. As others have pointed out kamakizee is only useful in certain situations, it makes sense no one would have thought of it until now. They did say she was a brilliant general, and Poe + Hux (both experienced in the military) are confused when she turns the ship around.

That seems highly unlikely. Self-sacrifice is probably older than the discovery of fire, and kamikazee was actually fairly widely used by the Japanese in WWII. If we have invented it many times over throughout our earthly history, I would expect Holdo not to be the first to think of it in the much more advanced GFFA. Considering the energy released on impact is proportionate to the mass times the velocity squared, if hyperspace is really nothing more than traveling very fast in real space and time, as it appears to be in TLJ, then an obstacle travelling at lightspeed would obviously inflict the most damage. A lightspeed torpedo should therefore logically exist. Not having it would be the earthly equivalent of having super sonic planes, whilst inexplicably not having super sonic missiles.

Edit: consider that an object of 1,000kg travelling at lightspeed would have a 1,000 times more energy released on impact than a nuclear bomb.

Did you just justify SKB? 😁

I don’t think you understand how torpedo’s work. The speed that they strike the target is irrelevant in fact many torpedo don’t physically even contact the target, but proximity detonate.

Matt.F said:

I don’t think you understand how torpedo’s work. The speed that they strike the target is irrelevant in fact many torpedo don’t physically even contact the target, but proximity detonate.

No, I don’t think, you understand how the laws of physics work. If an object travels that fast, you don’t need to detonate anything. The energy released on impact would rival a nuclear bomb even for a very tiny object.

DrDre said:
No, I don’t think, you understand how the laws of physics work.

I work in the space sector and in fact I credit seeing Star Wars at a young age as being the catalyst for that interest. So I assure you my understanding of physics is fine, albeit entirely unnecessary for an appreciation of Star Wars.

I don’t want to turn today into another episode of “The Dre Show” so suffice to say that this discussion has already happened, and you have already been given many sound and sensible reasons. If you’ve forgotten them already then I would suggest you read back through the thread for your answers.