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ROTS: The Droids...

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So I know GL says the droids are an overarching theme through all six and its reallllllly all about them (no, wait Luke, no wait Anakin…no). How many plot holes do they create that memory wipes can not account for. How do you feel about rocket booster for r2d2…its cool, but why is it never present in the OT? Why is it Anakin does not remember c3po which he built and r2d2 who he flew with? Why does “uncle owen” not remember c3po if Shmi his step mother and the droid lived with them for years? Obi-wan in a new hope, not discussing both of them? It makes no sense without proposterous fanboy justification.

16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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R2D2's rockets: basically, he didn't have the technology to do it during the 70s, and he does now. GL never cared for plot holes, he IS a walking plot hole, all he wanted is a neat visual effect for R2.

No, I don't think Vader ever saw Threepio on the OT... On ANH, he MIGHT have seen C3PO while he was fighting with Obi-Wan ("this is our chance, come on"), but he wouldn't stop fighting and say hello to his droid. Besides, he didn't care anymore about him anyway...

Uncle Owen: Yes, it is a plot hole. Maybe Owen had his memory wiped out too. Or maybe he thought it was a different droid. Who cares anyway, Owen and Beru get toasted 20 minutes later anyway.

Obi-Wan: he didn't want to discuss them, maybe?

Of course, these are all huge plot holes because GL wanted to have the droids on the prequels so he could sell products with them, such as toys.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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I wouldnt say its proposterous (i wouldnt even say its preposterous)

When did Anakin/Vader encounter 3PO? maybe on bespin he saw him on Chewie's back, but I dont think vader was examing the droid to see if it was the one he made. TC-14 looks similar to 3PO, as does the other droid threepio encounters on bespin.

Same with Artoo. He wouldnt have even seen him at this point so when did Vader see Artoo in the OT? when he was trying to shoot down Luke's X-Wing in ANH? Im sure that was his concern. 'Oooh, I see a blue dome of an astromech droid...could that possibly be my artoo unit?' I dont buy it.

Uncle Owen. Similar info with 3PO, he has very little contact with Owen in ANH. He never is told or hears threepios name. Maybe he put it together when Luke mentiond the R2/Kenobi thing, but it wasnt like he was gonna say he recognized the droids at that point since he's trying to hide all that info about Anakin from Luke. And he did purposly tell luke to get the memory erased.

Obi-Wan, similar to uncle owen. Why would he tell Luke all that info that is obviously stuff that Luke isnt ready to hear yet, and wouldnt help their cause of saving Leia and the Rebellion anyway. (its like a need to know basis) He 'lies' to luke before we find out this info about the droids, but now that we know it it becomes more unacceptable, why?

preposterous fanboy justification? sorry, think your stretching just a bit much to discount reasonable explanations

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Uncle owen lived with 3po for years, I was listening to the ATOC novelization and Shmi and the droid are there since not long after anakin left, I think they said 10 years. And it was after they got married Shmi finished putting the metal on him herself, covering him as he is seen with her funeral in ATOC. So he isn't going to recognize the look, the voice, none of it? I can't remember exactly, but doesn't 3po actually introduce himself when he's picking out droids in ANH..."saying my name is c3po, human cyborg relations"? Thanks for pointing out my misspelling! I may have been examing and examining your statement too closely , but there is some irony to saying I am stretching by saying when speaking of fanboy justification as those that blindly follow will make everything fit. It is a story after all and it takes on religious following, zealousness, and justification for things that aren't there. It is not real. It is a story. There always will be holes. It is a question of how many and the level of acceptability. My point is just that. Does this reach a point of frustration to anyone or pull you out of some level of culpability? I think certainly anakin/vader did see c3po in ANH and Empire at cloud city and again the voice is unmistakable. The rockets on r2? Umm, I kind of like it, but then again it makes you watch the OT differently...so you ask yourself how much more of the OT has to be altered to fit the mythology/storyline of the PT. Technology alone can not be justification.

I may be wrong, I am not trying to win a war. I was simply asking a question of does this pull anyone else out of the mythos of the star wars saga?
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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Threepio never mentions his name when he introduces himself to Owen, Ive watched it and paid close attention to this for this exact reason. In fact his only contact with him is when he first buys him. I think its (paraphrasing)

Owen: I suppose your programmed for etiquette and protocol.
C-3PO: why yes sir, its my primary function
O: I have no need for a protocol droid
C: of course not sir, that is why i have been programmed...
O: what i really need is a droid that understands the binary language of vaporators.
C: vaporators, my first job was programing binary load lifters, quite similar to your vaporators in most respects
O: do you speek bocce (sp?)
C: Why yes sir, its like a second language

thats pretty much it. Also, 3PO looks much different as the coverings he has now are shiney gold as apposed to the old dirty metal he had while with Owen. Plus, if his actions in ANH are any indication its not like he spent much time hanging out with the droids on the farm. And 20 some odd years later your really gonna recognize a voice of a droid that you have no emotional attacthment to. I know people that cant recognize other peoples voices who they would have more of an emotional attachment to after much shorter periods of time.

Vader never speaks with C-3PO. He may over hear threepio talking to chewie or something but there is so much going on and Vader's attention is on much more important things that 'hey, i wonder if that droid is the one i built 30 years ago'. In ANH threepio runs through the hanger while Vader is in the middle of a sword fight on the other side...i seriously doubt Vader even saw him. No exposure no chance of recognition. This isnt a plot hole as there is nothing wrong here.

dont get me wrong, im not trying to justify the inclusion of the droids, or say it worked perfectly and was done superbly. I personally think Anakin making 3PO is a dumb idea, I like the idea someone else had (i forget who, sorry) in another thread about how if lucas wanted to do it 3PO should have been Padme's while on Naboo as it would make sense for a Queen to have a protocol droid. And Artoo should have been a scrapped droid that Anakin fixed up and modified to his liking...maybe, and this wasnt part of the idea, but make Anakin a bit of a loner (ie remove his useless friends) and have him fix up R2 and program and tweek him and that be his only close friend before Obi-Wan shows up and befriends him and takes him under his wing.

my point is that even though this aspect wasnt done the best its not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be. It takes very little imagination to discount this 'plot holes' there are much bigger holes that people can base their hate on. Plus it amazes me how most plot holes, even fairly large ones, in the OT are overlooked (with the PT's out, it seems more of these are discussed however) but details like this (caused by the PT) are scrutinized.

-Darth Simon

p.s. The spelling error was more of a bit of humor, wasnt meant to be part of my arguement or an attack on yours...i spell things wrong all the time...hell i still have to think about that 'i before e' thing
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
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Darth Simon, I hear ya. I wasn't sure about the introduction maybe it all runs together for me (they are in all six films after all). I am just not sure I like them being in all six films period. Like the wookie thing in ROTS, it feels so forced and again, my point is it pulls me out a bit. That's the "stretch" I don't like. I have read innumerous posts on disliking the droids roll in the PT and how there is some incompatability. Like the Padme death thread...there's things that feel forced and therefore is a stretch in that it doesn't add to the story it takes away from it. Further, that is time that could be spent developing the central characters, instead introducing more and more peripheral ones. Every scene that got deleted on the ATOC GL and Rick introduce saying how much this scenes adds to the plot or enriches the character. My question is why? Why add chewbacca? I know I am not alone on some of the culpability of the PT to OT bridge.
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
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Well, it's just more double talk. Lucas continues to insist that the films are supposed to be watched in numerical order. That's his (latest) vision. But anyone who watches can tell that all those things are there for is to remind us of the original trilogy, like the droids, Chewbacca, Owen looking into the twin sunset. Things we would never understand or begin to appreciate if we didn't see the original first and just seem awkward and out of place taken by themselves.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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it goes both ways though. a person who see the stuff in teh PT will be reminded of it when the see it in the OT.
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Not exactly, though, because the two instances are done different from a stylistic perspective. Those scenes in the original trilogy aren't treated like nostalgia or anything special. When you first see Chewbacca, there isn't this lingering camera on him or a huge emphasis on his name. In Revenge of the Sith, remember the, "And goodbye.... CHEWBACCA!" just to make sure that those of us who didn't recognize him would be sure to do so. So, yes, while someone watching them for the first time in numerical order (makes me want to cry thinking about it) will see those and realize it, they weren't created with that purpose in mind. I doubt even Mr. Lucas would deny that.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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well some times things are just the way they are.
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
well some times things are just the way they are.


Exactly! And the PT is just awful the way they are!
"Drink the Kool-Aid. Wear blinders. Cover your ears. Because that's the only way you can totally enjoy Revenge of the Sith -- the final and most futile attempt from skilled producer, clumsy director and tin-eared writer George Lucas to create a prequel trilogy to match the myth-making spirit of the original Star Wars saga he unleashed twenty-eight years ago. Fan boys, of course, have convinced themselves otherwise. So have several critics, if you go by early reviews."
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and you can do better, i suppose. cause your the all great man, who can do anything. except for accept the movies as being a good kick at the can and with some half decent parts.
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Originally posted by: fans own the trilogy
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
well some times things are just the way they are.


Exactly! And the PT is just awful the way they are!


Boring!! Is that all you can say, man?

http://www.facebook.com/DirtyWookie

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appently. he doesnt seem to like discussing things, probably why he thinks that lucas doesnt own the trilogy.
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Oh, come on. Be nice. Just because he thinks the prequels suck (which isn't that bizarre of an idea around here...) doesn't mean he has to be bashed.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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One could argue the rocket boosters don't work properly anymore by the time of the OT. Is Artoo simply spat out violently by the swamp critter on Dagobah, or does he manage a short burst to escape?

Where were you in '77?

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He also never really needed them in the OT as well. Also, Artoo was serving on the Tantive IV (as we are meant to understand) for the time between ROTS and ANH. Since he would have had no need for boosters on a ship such as that, they might have been removed by Antilles.

And come on guys, Star Wars is not the first series of films to have plot holes. Terminator, Back to the Future, Indiana Jones, etc. They do not have plot holes because Lucas is an idiot (which he is), they have plot holes simply because that's the way things happen.

Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here, this is the war room!

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Originally posted by: SilverWook
One could argue the rocket boosters don't work properly anymore by the time of the OT. Is Artoo simply spat out violently by the swamp critter on Dagobah, or does he manage a short burst to escape?


Noooo! Please! Don't say that! Now GL is going to alter that scene and put on some rockets on R2!
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Or he might go the really intelligent route and have R2 fire his rockets while they're falling out of the Ewok net. Everybody else dies, and the Rebels are destroyed (some Ewoks probably get burnt too), but at least George has managed to save his continuity for his vision!!!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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He writes this stuff as he goes along.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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I'm aware of that, Kev... It was a joke.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.