The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 178

SilverWook said:

DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

Well I wasn’t fooled by fake Luke not even for a second, but didn’t know how he was doing what he was doing until revealed. Not only the footprints, but the haircut, hair color and lightsaber totally gave it away for me. That took tension away, which made it all a bit disappointing.

What tension? That he wouldn’t die? Wouldn’t the tension of that be cut anyway when the walkers don’t leave a scratch?

Not to mention, of course, that he does die.

Presumably tension would remain in the showdown with Kylo.

But I imagine most people were fooled, as I was, although confused about Luke’s different look.

I wasn’t fooled at all, but I was on the edge of my seat wondering what is Luke doing? and what is going to happen?.

The movie isn’t trying to fool anyone. All the evidence that something is up with Luke is on the screen. You either notice it or not. All I caught on to first time was the hair color.

Exactly. (The only person being “fooled” is Kylo, even though the truth is right in front of him and he’s too angry to see it.) Whether you notice or not doesn’t impact the scene’s power at all, which is basically my point.

Pardon my language guys, but fuck me, I’ve been pretty grumpy today (and the past few days). I mean, yeah I wasn’t fooled and all, but what Dom said was great, I was on the edge of my seat wondering what he was doing, I was interested, even though I wasn’t tense. What an awesome scene that was.

It’s just that I’ve been so frustrated with the council…

DominicCobb said:

SilverWook said:

DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

Well I wasn’t fooled by fake Luke not even for a second, but didn’t know how he was doing what he was doing until revealed. Not only the footprints, but the haircut, hair color and lightsaber totally gave it away for me. That took tension away, which made it all a bit disappointing.

What tension? That he wouldn’t die? Wouldn’t the tension of that be cut anyway when the walkers don’t leave a scratch?

Not to mention, of course, that he does die.

Presumably tension would remain in the showdown with Kylo.

But I imagine most people were fooled, as I was, although confused about Luke’s different look.

I wasn’t fooled at all, but I was on the edge of my seat wondering what is Luke doing? and what is going to happen?.

The movie isn’t trying to fool anyone. All the evidence that something is up with Luke is on the screen. You either notice it or not. All I caught on to first time was the hair color.

Exactly. (The only person being “fooled” is Kylo, even though the truth is right in front of him and he’s to angry to see it.) Whether you notice or not doesn’t impact the scene’s power at all, which is basically my point.

Yes! The Rebels too, because presumably most of them had never seen Luke before. Leia too, probably, because that was the last Luke she saw and last time she saw Rey, Rey was on her way to give Luke the blue lightsaber.

Just another fun thing, no one seems to talk about how Luke destroyed an entire hut with the wave of a hand (when Kylo and Rey were almost touching hands). That was also one of my favorite scenes, and am awesome display of power and awesomeness. And I loved how he outclassed Rey with the stick too. Unfortunately Rey just annoys me so much and that makes me so sad, because I’d be loving the new movies if I liked her I think…

SilverWook said:

Arguably you can only pin the bomber crews on Poe. 😉

Poe, Finn, and Rose get almost everyone killed. Their plan to disable the tracking not only completely fails, but trusting a complete stranger they found in prison well enough to discuss the plan to sneak everyone away in the small transports in front of him leads to most of the rebels dying when they become sitting ducks.

At first Admiral Purple Hair seems like a complete jerk for hiding her plan from Poe, but since his finding out is what allows him to get everyone killed, in hindsight she was absolutely right not to trust him.

I really loathed this aspect of them film. When Leia seemingly turns leadership over to Poe at the end because she likes bad boys, I kept thinking this is nuts. They should have been executing him without trial for mutiny and treason resulting in the deaths of hundreds not looking to him to lead them out of the cave.

Finn should have been put on his knees and shot in the back of the head too, but at least he got some redemption trying to sacrifice himself for everyone else.

I actually thought Finn almost had a good arc in this movie. The whole killing everyone mucks it up a bit, but I enjoyed seeing him go from thinking only about himself at the beginning of TFA to thinking of Rey at the end of TFA and beginning of TLJ to thinking about everyone at the end of TLJ.

Poe I just hate. He was just boring in the first movie, and arrogantly self-centered beyond all redemption in this movie.

SilverWook said:

How did they cheat with the dice? I don’t have my copy of The Force Can and Cannots handy…

They could be touched and held.

yhwx said:

DominicCobb said:

SilverWook said:

DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

Well I wasn’t fooled by fake Luke not even for a second, but didn’t know how he was doing what he was doing until revealed. Not only the footprints, but the haircut, hair color and lightsaber totally gave it away for me. That took tension away, which made it all a bit disappointing.

What tension? That he wouldn’t die? Wouldn’t the tension of that be cut anyway when the walkers don’t leave a scratch?

Not to mention, of course, that he does die.

Presumably tension would remain in the showdown with Kylo.

But I imagine most people were fooled, as I was, although confused about Luke’s different look.

I wasn’t fooled at all, but I was on the edge of my seat wondering what is Luke doing? and what is going to happen?.

The movie isn’t trying to fool anyone. All the evidence that something is up with Luke is on the screen. You either notice it or not. All I caught on to first time was the hair color.

Exactly. (The only person being “fooled” is Kylo, even though the truth is right in front of him and he’s to angry to see it.) Whether you notice or not doesn’t impact the scene’s power at all, which is basically my point.

It does change the surprise factor though. I was pretty surprised when I figured it out. I wouldn’t have liked that to have been taken away.

To an extent. Like I said, I knew something was up, but when it cut to Luke floating above the rock on Ahch-to, it was still a big “oh shit” moment for me.

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

SilverWook said:

DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

Well I wasn’t fooled by fake Luke not even for a second, but didn’t know how he was doing what he was doing until revealed. Not only the footprints, but the haircut, hair color and lightsaber totally gave it away for me. That took tension away, which made it all a bit disappointing.

What tension? That he wouldn’t die? Wouldn’t the tension of that be cut anyway when the walkers don’t leave a scratch?

Not to mention, of course, that he does die.

Presumably tension would remain in the showdown with Kylo.

But I imagine most people were fooled, as I was, although confused about Luke’s different look.

I wasn’t fooled at all, but I was on the edge of my seat wondering what is Luke doing? and what is going to happen?.

The movie isn’t trying to fool anyone. All the evidence that something is up with Luke is on the screen. You either notice it or not. All I caught on to first time was the hair color.

Exactly. (The only person being “fooled” is Kylo, even though the truth is right in front of him and he’s to angry to see it.) Whether you notice or not doesn’t impact the scene’s power at all, which is basically my point.

Yes! The Rebels too, because presumably most of them had never seen Luke before. Leia too, probably, because that was the last Luke she saw and last time she saw Rey, Rey was on her way to give Luke the blue lightsaber.

Yes, though I don’t know if I’d really call that fooling. Kylo should’ve known better, the Rebels weren’t fooled, they were inspired. Whether Leia knew something was up is open to interpretation (my guess is she ultimately knew exactly what was going on).

yhwx said:

Collipso said:

Just another fun thing, no one seems to talk about how Luke destroyed an entire hut with the wave of a hand (when Kylo and Rey were almost touching hands). That was also one of my favorite scenes. And I loves how he outclassed Rey with the stick too.

Yes, I agree with you on the hut scene. You think Luke outclassed Rey with the staff? I thought Luke eventually got cornered by Rey there. Interesting.

She did corner him, but she pulled the lightsaber to her. If Luke wanted he could’ve taken the lightsaber instead of the stick and the duel would be over in 10s. In other words, she cheated.

Unfortunately Rey just annoys me so much and that makes me so sad, because I’d be loving the new movies I think…

Really? Why? Rey’s supposed to be the protagonist there, the one you sympathize with. Luke is not supposed to be a sympathetic characer, at least in the first part of the movie.

Yep, I know. That’s why it’s unfortunate. She annoyed me in TFA because mostly of the mind trick, and I didn’t really sympathize with her cause or didn’t relate with her struggles and now, the payoffs and consequences in TLJ were much less impactful than what they could’ve and should’ve been. Plus I’m still not entirely sold on how quickly she picked up her abilities.

yhwx said:

Rey and Kylo are seen (almost) touching hands via Force projection earlier in the movie, so obviously physical things can be transmitted via it too.

I actually didn’t think they could really touch when I saw that scene. It’s possible, but they were in each others minds.

I’m sure some convoluted fan explanation can be created. Maybe Luke is projecting sensations into people’s minds, and he can project fake images easily but fake sensations of touch are more difficult and have to be limited. There I fixed it.

I just feel that while the movie drops some hints that Luke isn’t really there, it drops others that he is so it’s not just a matter us not noticing the hints that are there.

Collipso said:

Yep, I know. That’s why it’s unfortunate. She annoyed me in TFA because mostly of the mind trick, and I didn’t really sympathize with her cause or didn’t relate with her struggles and now, the payoffs and consequences in TLJ were much less impactful than what they could’ve and should’ve been.

I agree with all of this though I will add that for all the things I hate about this movie, I like Rey in TLJ and find her a lot more interesting and sympathetic now. Everything I liked about TLJ involved her or Kylo or both.

Plus I’m still not entirely sold on how quickly she picked up her abilities.

Me neither, but at least she’s got some training now–I guess, though it didn’t really seem like much–but it’s more than the last movie where she’s just a natural Jedi or something.

DominicCobb said:

yhwx said:

DominicCobb said:

SilverWook said:

DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

Well I wasn’t fooled by fake Luke not even for a second, but didn’t know how he was doing what he was doing until revealed. Not only the footprints, but the haircut, hair color and lightsaber totally gave it away for me. That took tension away, which made it all a bit disappointing.

What tension? That he wouldn’t die? Wouldn’t the tension of that be cut anyway when the walkers don’t leave a scratch?

Not to mention, of course, that he does die.

Presumably tension would remain in the showdown with Kylo.

But I imagine most people were fooled, as I was, although confused about Luke’s different look.

I wasn’t fooled at all, but I was on the edge of my seat wondering what is Luke doing? and what is going to happen?.

The movie isn’t trying to fool anyone. All the evidence that something is up with Luke is on the screen. You either notice it or not. All I caught on to first time was the hair color.

Exactly. (The only person being “fooled” is Kylo, even though the truth is right in front of him and he’s to angry to see it.) Whether you notice or not doesn’t impact the scene’s power at all, which is basically my point.

It does change the surprise factor though. I was pretty surprised when I figured it out. I wouldn’t have liked that to have been taken away.

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

SilverWook said:

DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

Well I wasn’t fooled by fake Luke not even for a second, but didn’t know how he was doing what he was doing until revealed. Not only the footprints, but the haircut, hair color and lightsaber totally gave it away for me. That took tension away, which made it all a bit disappointing.

What tension? That he wouldn’t die? Wouldn’t the tension of that be cut anyway when the walkers don’t leave a scratch?

Not to mention, of course, that he does die.

Presumably tension would remain in the showdown with Kylo.

But I imagine most people were fooled, as I was, although confused about Luke’s different look.

I wasn’t fooled at all, but I was on the edge of my seat wondering what is Luke doing? and what is going to happen?.

The movie isn’t trying to fool anyone. All the evidence that something is up with Luke is on the screen. You either notice it or not. All I caught on to first time was the hair color.

Exactly. (The only person being “fooled” is Kylo, even though the truth is right in front of him and he’s to angry to see it.) Whether you notice or not doesn’t impact the scene’s power at all, which is basically my point.

Yes! The Rebels too, because presumably most of them had never seen Luke before. Leia too, probably, because that was the last Luke she saw and last time she saw Rey, Rey was on her way to give Luke the blue lightsaber.

Yes, though I don’t know if I’d really call that fooling. Kylo should’ve known better, the Rebels weren’t fooled, they were inspired. Whether Leia knew something was up is open to interpretation (my guess is she ultimately knew exactly what was going on).

Yeah, what I meant is that they didn’t know how Luke was supposed to look like. So they believed in what they were seeing. Leia looked like she knew what was going on, yes, but it’s not as if she knew how Luke actually looked like or something. She might as well have been tricked by good old farm boy.

At first I thought “hey, he shaved!” Then I started picturing Luke trimming his own hair with a lightsaber and so I proceeded to look for the green one, naturally, and ended up finding the blue one. Once that happened I was like “wait what?” Then there was the footprint thing, then the snakey moves to dodge Kylo, etc

DominicCobb said:

Yes, though I don’t know if I’d really call that fooling. Kylo should’ve known better, the Rebels weren’t fooled, they were inspired. Whether Leia knew something was up is open to interpretation (my guess is she ultimately knew exactly what was going on).

Her knowing would at least explain why she left the dice behind, but my opinion (just mine so everyone stay calm) is that Johnson just creates individual moments without worrying too much if they really fit together into a coherent whole.

So Poe seems to save the entire fleet from the dreadnought one moment and seems to have gotten the bomber crews all killed for nothing the next. And we watch the Jedi books burned up with satisfaction one moment as we know we need to move on from the past, and are relieved to see they survived later. And so on.

Collipso said:

At first I thought “hey, he shaved!” Then I started picturing Luke trimming his own hair with a lightsaber and so I proceeded to look for the green one, naturally, and ended up finding the blue one. Once that happened I was like “wait what?” Then there was the footprint thing, then the snakey moves to dodge Kylo, etc

Good job! Doesn’t it feel good when it starts to dawn on you as you figure it out though?

I remember watching The Sixth Sense (back in '99!–where did the time go?!) as the truth slowly dawned on me, and I was like wait could he be? Surely not. Well, maybe. Yeah, that makes sense now. And that makes sense. My Goodness! HE IS!

It’s a very satisfying feeling I think.

SilverWook said:

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

yhwx said:

DominicCobb said:

SilverWook said:

DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

Well I wasn’t fooled by fake Luke not even for a second, but didn’t know how he was doing what he was doing until revealed. Not only the footprints, but the haircut, hair color and lightsaber totally gave it away for me. That took tension away, which made it all a bit disappointing.

What tension? That he wouldn’t die? Wouldn’t the tension of that be cut anyway when the walkers don’t leave a scratch?

Not to mention, of course, that he does die.

Presumably tension would remain in the showdown with Kylo.

But I imagine most people were fooled, as I was, although confused about Luke’s different look.

I wasn’t fooled at all, but I was on the edge of my seat wondering what is Luke doing? and what is going to happen?.

The movie isn’t trying to fool anyone. All the evidence that something is up with Luke is on the screen. You either notice it or not. All I caught on to first time was the hair color.

Exactly. (The only person being “fooled” is Kylo, even though the truth is right in front of him and he’s to angry to see it.) Whether you notice or not doesn’t impact the scene’s power at all, which is basically my point.

It does change the surprise factor though. I was pretty surprised when I figured it out. I wouldn’t have liked that to have been taken away.

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

SilverWook said:

DominicCobb said:

Mrebo said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

Well I wasn’t fooled by fake Luke not even for a second, but didn’t know how he was doing what he was doing until revealed. Not only the footprints, but the haircut, hair color and lightsaber totally gave it away for me. That took tension away, which made it all a bit disappointing.

What tension? That he wouldn’t die? Wouldn’t the tension of that be cut anyway when the walkers don’t leave a scratch?

Not to mention, of course, that he does die.

Presumably tension would remain in the showdown with Kylo.

But I imagine most people were fooled, as I was, although confused about Luke’s different look.

I wasn’t fooled at all, but I was on the edge of my seat wondering what is Luke doing? and what is going to happen?.

The movie isn’t trying to fool anyone. All the evidence that something is up with Luke is on the screen. You either notice it or not. All I caught on to first time was the hair color.

Exactly. (The only person being “fooled” is Kylo, even though the truth is right in front of him and he’s to angry to see it.) Whether you notice or not doesn’t impact the scene’s power at all, which is basically my point.

Yes! The Rebels too, because presumably most of them had never seen Luke before. Leia too, probably, because that was the last Luke she saw and last time she saw Rey, Rey was on her way to give Luke the blue lightsaber.

Yes, though I don’t know if I’d really call that fooling. Kylo should’ve known better, the Rebels weren’t fooled, they were inspired. Whether Leia knew something was up is open to interpretation (my guess is she ultimately knew exactly what was going on).

Yeah, what I meant is that they didn’t know how Luke was supposed to look like. So they believed in what they were seeing. Leia looked like she knew what was going on, yes, but it’s not as if she knew how Luke actually looked like or something. She might as well have been tricked by good old farm boy.

I’m sure they all had seen images of Luke before. He’s a legend you know! The important detail is he looks like he does in the flashback, which fits the mental image Leia and everyone else who hasn’t seen him in years(?) had.

I guess that’s what I meant haha. But I’m not sure if they had seen images of him before. Star Wars has a very medieval aspect in this regard, as in how the stories usually spread the good old fashioned way.

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Michael Ward said:

SilverWook said:

How did they cheat with the dice? I don’t have my copy of The Force Can and Cannots handy…

They could be touched and held.

Or Luke projected them into her hands as a clue. She never seemed shocked during that sequence, just watched calmly as they disappeared.

Kylo Ren held them as they disappeared.