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Which franchise is bigger and more iconic Star Wars or Harry Potter — Page 2

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Star Wars. But Harry Potter does share some interesting similarities. And to be brutally honest I wish Lucas had followed Rowling’s example and trusted the audience to grow with the series. I’m amazed at the depth, nuance, and darkness in the Deathly Hallows - especially when compared to the wide-eyed innocence of Philosopher’s Stone. JK clearly trusted her audience to mature and take it all on board as things got progressively heavier. I wish George had taken the same route with ROTJ.

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Shopping Maul said:

Star Wars. But Harry Potter does share some interesting similarities. And to be brutally honest I wish Lucas had followed Rowling’s example and trusted the audience to grow with the series. I’m amazed at the depth, nuance, and darkness in the Deathly Hallows - especially when compared to the wide-eyed innocence of Philosopher’s Stone. JK clearly trusted her audience to mature and take it all on board as things got progressively heavier. I wish George had taken the same route with ROTJ.

Dammit. Well said.

Dammit.

Han Shot. Period.

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Shopping Maul said:

Star Wars. But Harry Potter does share some interesting similarities. And to be brutally honest I wish Lucas had followed Rowling’s example and trusted the audience to grow with the series. I’m amazed at the depth, nuance, and darkness in the Deathly Hallows - especially when compared to the wide-eyed innocence of Philosopher’s Stone. JK clearly trusted her audience to mature and take it all on board as things got progressively heavier. I wish George had taken the same route with ROTJ.

Well, RotJ is visually and graphically darker than Empire. If not for the slapstick and if better executed the whole concept of Luke getting closer and closer to turning to the dark side, it could’ve been a pretty dark movie.

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Collipso said:

Shopping Maul said:

Star Wars. But Harry Potter does share some interesting similarities. And to be brutally honest I wish Lucas had followed Rowling’s example and trusted the audience to grow with the series. I’m amazed at the depth, nuance, and darkness in the Deathly Hallows - especially when compared to the wide-eyed innocence of Philosopher’s Stone. JK clearly trusted her audience to mature and take it all on board as things got progressively heavier. I wish George had taken the same route with ROTJ.

Well, RotJ is visually and graphically darker than Empire. If not for the slapstick and if better executed the whole concept of Luke getting closer and closer to turning to the dark side, it could’ve been a pretty dark movie.

Yes, it could have been. And of course there’s the alleged ‘Kurtz version’ of ROTJ which lines up with Deathly Hallows pretty well (Han dying in action, Leia left to rule a galaxy in tatters, Luke walking off into the sunset all disillusioned etc etc). I understand that Lucas always intended SW to be good wholesome fun, but I think he overcompensated somewhat with ROTJ.

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 (Edited)

What is the “Kurtz version?”

I’d say Star Wars, if only by virtue of simply having been around longer.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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ZigZig said:

Anyway, Star Wars and Harry Potter share the same villain: Snoke aka Voldemort.

What?? o.O

Okay, Voldemort is a narcissistic psychopath. Not the cultural trope usage of the word—a literal DSM5-definition psychopath. He’s not merely evil; he literally can not form emotional attachments with anyone, and he has no conscience whatsoever. Plus, he succeeded in splitting his soul such that he can not be killed. And only a single person, by virtue of being singled out by Voldemort himself, was capable of killing him.

Snoke is a stereotypically mustache-twirling bad guy. He’s just similar in that he’s been CGI’d.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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 (Edited)

Mike O said:

What is the “Kurtz version?

Gary Kurtz, co-producer of Star Wars and TESB, wanted ROTJ to end on a bittersweet, poignant tone. Were Lucas not to have intervened and changed the story to be more fun and have a happy ending, among other things Han Solo would have died a sacrificial death for his friends (and completed his character arc from a selfish scoundrel to a loyal hero), there would have been no second Death Star, and also no Ewok Celebration (or “teddy bear picnic” as Harrison Ford put it).

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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 (Edited)

Like almost all other successful franchises, Harry Potter has a much higher rate of good content than Star Wars.

The Person in Question

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chyron8472 said:

Mike O said:

What is the “Kurtz version?

Gary Kurtz, co-producer of Star Wars and TESB, wanted ROTJ to end on a bittersweet, poignant tone. Were Lucas not to have intervened and changed the story to be more fun and have a happy ending, among other things Han Solo would have died a sacrificial death for his friends (and completed his character arc from a selfish scoundrel to a loyal hero), there would have been no second Death Star, and also no Ewok Celebration (or “teddy bear picnic” as Harrison Ford put it).

In the novelization Han’s arc is much more satisfactory, mostly because of the sandstorm scene.

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moviefreakedmind said:

Like almost all other successful franchises, Harry Potter has a much higher rate of good content than Star Wars.

If you say so. I can’t judge because I just can’t make myself care about Harry Potter.

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chyron8472 said:

Mike O said:

What is the “Kurtz version?

Gary Kurtz, co-producer of Star Wars and TESB, wanted ROTJ to end on a bittersweet, poignant tone. Were Lucas not to have intervened and changed the story to be more fun and have a happy ending, among other things Han Solo would have died a sacrificial death for his friends (and completed his character arc from a selfish scoundrel to a loyal hero), there would have been no second Death Star, and also no Ewok Celebration (or “teddy bear picnic” as Harrison Ford put it).

No kidding? I’m fascinated. Did Lucas kick Kurtz off the project because of creative differences or something? I read just recently that McQuarrie had some clashes with him and was running out of ideas by ROTJ. Did they originally want to bring Kershner back to direct?

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Mike O said:

chyron8472 said:

Mike O said:

What is the “Kurtz version?

Gary Kurtz, co-producer of Star Wars and TESB, wanted ROTJ to end on a bittersweet, poignant tone. Were Lucas not to have intervened and changed the story to be more fun and have a happy ending, among other things Han Solo would have died a sacrificial death for his friends (and completed his character arc from a selfish scoundrel to a loyal hero), there would have been no second Death Star, and also no Ewok Celebration (or “teddy bear picnic” as Harrison Ford put it).

No kidding? I’m fascinated. Did Lucas kick Kurtz off the project because of creative differences or something? I read just recently that McQuarrie had some clashes with him and was running out of ideas by ROTJ. Did they originally want to bring Kershner back to direct?

Lucas wanted Kershner for VI too, but he turned it down.

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 (Edited)

Mike O said:

chyron8472 said:

Mike O said:

What is the “Kurtz version?

Gary Kurtz, co-producer of Star Wars and TESB, wanted ROTJ to end on a bittersweet, poignant tone. Were Lucas not to have intervened and changed the story to be more fun and have a happy ending, among other things Han Solo would have died a sacrificial death for his friends (and completed his character arc from a selfish scoundrel to a loyal hero), there would have been no second Death Star, and also no Ewok Celebration (or “teddy bear picnic” as Harrison Ford put it).

No kidding? I’m fascinated. Did Lucas kick Kurtz off the project because of creative differences or something? I read just recently that McQuarrie had some clashes with him and was running out of ideas by ROTJ. Did they originally want to bring Kershner back to direct?

Kurtz has done a few interviews (they’re all over the internet) talking about his dislike for the direction George was taking with ROTJ. There was also supposedly a question of budget - Kurtz allowed Kershner some extra time on TESB which led to the shoot going over budget. Kurtz ended up directing some scenes himself to save time. I’m not sure how significant the budgetary factor was in Lucas’ and Kurtz’ parting of ways.

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chyron8472 said:

ZigZig said:

Anyway, Star Wars and Harry Potter share the same villain: Snoke aka Voldemort.

What?? o.O

Okay, Voldemort is a narcissistic psychopath. Not the cultural trope usage of the word—a literal DSM5-definition psychopath. He’s not merely evil; he literally can not form emotional attachments with anyone, and he has no conscience whatsoever. Plus, he succeeded in splitting his soul such that he can not be killed. And only a single person, by virtue of being singled out by Voldemort himself, was capable of killing him.

Snoke is a stereotypically mustache-twirling bad guy. He’s just similar in that he’s been CGI’d.

After seeing TFA, I was actually really hoping that they would take some inspiration from the Harry Potter novels/movies for the sequel trilogy. What with Luke tracking down ancient locations and artifacts, and Snoke being some ancient villian to somehow rose back to power. I think the later Harry Potter stories (6-7/8) would have made a great basic outline from which to construct Episodes 8 and 9.

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Shopping Maul said:

Mike O said:

chyron8472 said:

Mike O said:

What is the “Kurtz version?

Gary Kurtz, co-producer of Star Wars and TESB, wanted ROTJ to end on a bittersweet, poignant tone. Were Lucas not to have intervened and changed the story to be more fun and have a happy ending, among other things Han Solo would have died a sacrificial death for his friends (and completed his character arc from a selfish scoundrel to a loyal hero), there would have been no second Death Star, and also no Ewok Celebration (or “teddy bear picnic” as Harrison Ford put it).

No kidding? I’m fascinated. Did Lucas kick Kurtz off the project because of creative differences or something? I read just recently that McQuarrie had some clashes with him and was running out of ideas by ROTJ. Did they originally want to bring Kershner back to direct?

Kurtz has done a few interviews (they’re all over the internet) talking about his dislike for the direction George was taking with ROTJ. There was also supposedly a question of budget - Kurtz allowed Kershner some extra time on TESB which led to the shoot going over budget. Kurtz ended up directing some scenes himself to save time. I’m not sure how significant the budgetary factor was in Lucas’ and Kurtz’ parting of ways.

Damn, fascinating. I didn’t know any of this! So in some parallel universe, there’s a version of ROTJ that actually pays off everything in ESB, I like the weak version we got? I’d be willing to bet it was a combination of going over budget with Lucas money and Lucas probably wanting more creative control over things after ESB. I really had no idea about any of this, it’s really interesting to me. I’m a disgrace to these forums, I know 😉.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Time

Mike O said:

Shopping Maul said:

Mike O said:

chyron8472 said:

Mike O said:

What is the “Kurtz version?

Gary Kurtz, co-producer of Star Wars and TESB, wanted ROTJ to end on a bittersweet, poignant tone. Were Lucas not to have intervened and changed the story to be more fun and have a happy ending, among other things Han Solo would have died a sacrificial death for his friends (and completed his character arc from a selfish scoundrel to a loyal hero), there would have been no second Death Star, and also no Ewok Celebration (or “teddy bear picnic” as Harrison Ford put it).

No kidding? I’m fascinated. Did Lucas kick Kurtz off the project because of creative differences or something? I read just recently that McQuarrie had some clashes with him and was running out of ideas by ROTJ. Did they originally want to bring Kershner back to direct?

Kurtz has done a few interviews (they’re all over the internet) talking about his dislike for the direction George was taking with ROTJ. There was also supposedly a question of budget - Kurtz allowed Kershner some extra time on TESB which led to the shoot going over budget. Kurtz ended up directing some scenes himself to save time. I’m not sure how significant the budgetary factor was in Lucas’ and Kurtz’ parting of ways.

Damn, fascinating. I didn’t know any of this! So in some parallel universe, there’s a version of ROTJ that actually pays off everything in ESB, I like the weak version we got? I’d be willing to bet it was a combination of going over budget with Lucas money and Lucas probably wanting more creative control over things after ESB. I really had no idea about any of this, it’s really interesting to me. I’m a disgrace to these forums, I know 😉.

Lucas wanted to bring in Spielberg in for VI after Kershner refused, and he didn’t want to have anything to do with the movie besides writing the story and giving Kasdan the screenplay. I don’t think he asks as power hungry as he’s made out to be. Only that’s how things turned out: McCallum challenged him more in TPM than Kazanjian in RotJ. And Marquand was not a good choice for director, so Lucas basically had to co-direct the film with him. Don’t think Lucas was enjoying this though, he lost his wife because of it.

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Mike O said:

Shopping Maul said:

Mike O said:

chyron8472 said:

Mike O said:

What is the “Kurtz version?

Gary Kurtz, co-producer of Star Wars and TESB, wanted ROTJ to end on a bittersweet, poignant tone. Were Lucas not to have intervened and changed the story to be more fun and have a happy ending, among other things Han Solo would have died a sacrificial death for his friends (and completed his character arc from a selfish scoundrel to a loyal hero), there would have been no second Death Star, and also no Ewok Celebration (or “teddy bear picnic” as Harrison Ford put it).

No kidding? I’m fascinated. Did Lucas kick Kurtz off the project because of creative differences or something? I read just recently that McQuarrie had some clashes with him and was running out of ideas by ROTJ. Did they originally want to bring Kershner back to direct?

Kurtz has done a few interviews (they’re all over the internet) talking about his dislike for the direction George was taking with ROTJ. There was also supposedly a question of budget - Kurtz allowed Kershner some extra time on TESB which led to the shoot going over budget. Kurtz ended up directing some scenes himself to save time. I’m not sure how significant the budgetary factor was in Lucas’ and Kurtz’ parting of ways.

Damn, fascinating. I didn’t know any of this! So in some parallel universe, there’s a version of ROTJ that actually pays off everything in ESB, I like the weak version we got? I’d be willing to bet it was a combination of going over budget with Lucas money and Lucas probably wanting more creative control over things after ESB. I really had no idea about any of this, it’s really interesting to me. I’m a disgrace to these forums, I know 😉.

Well, I confess to being on the Kurtz side of the debate, only because ROTJ was a disappointment to me and I’d have much preferred a continuation of the TESB vibe. Given that Lucas has consistently claimed he was 30% happy with ANH, and 100% happy with TPM, it’s clear that he and I have differing opinions on what constitutes a great SW movie!