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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 165

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LuckyGungan2001 said:

Michael Ward said:

Mrebo said:

Remind me of the 3PO moments?

Seems like one was about the time that he was saying mutiny was against his programming, but I don’t remember the line. They’re were a couple of others. One might have been when Finn and Poe and Rose were discussing their plan. They were not hilarious, but mildly amusing and not cringe worthy like most. The audience laughed out loud at them which I think made me enjoy them more than if I’d been by myself. Most of the other jokes landed with a thud with the audience when I saw it.

Funny how everyone who dislikes the movie seems to have gone to a showing where the jokes weren’t laughed at. All the jokes (even the dumb ones) were huge hits with the audience both times I saw it.

Was this in St. Olaf, Minnesota, by any chance?

This is a scene I would have laughed at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7I0xJNIxiE

The blue elephant in the room.

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ExNihilo said:

Valheru_84 said:

Current discussions aside, I think this is a fantastic video on why many people can’t accept what they did to Luke’s character in TLJ:

https://youtu.be/c4tTSB_yH8k

I just started watching this guys’s The Lost Jedi series and so far I really like it!

Yeah I’m finding his various analysis and opinion videos on TLJ to be great and he does a pretty good job on presenting and articulating his points in a way that’s not confronting or antagonistic if people with an opposite view were to watch his videos. Here is another good one on what he believes shows that RJ and JJ were not on the same page which obviously led to the many consistency issues and the binning of TFA’s setups:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP6Ckhg9tOk

But yeah, regarding The Lost Jedi series - Holy shit! I’ve listened to part 1 and 2, Disney should have hired this bloke to write the story for TLJ, it’s fricken awesome! Can’t wait to listen to the remaining parts. I also wish somehow that it were possible to make his vision for Episode 8 via a fan edit of TLJ but I don’t think that would be possible 😕

For anyone that is interested in a different take on the story of Episode 8 that is more inline with the OT and what was setup in TFA, I highly recommend checking out the below two videos. The video explains that he’s not trying to say how TLJ should have been done or that he could do it better (personally though I would have loved to see his story made into Ep8 and I felt this way after only the first 5 minutes into it), he makes fan fiction for fun and this is his take on an alternate story set around the same time as TLJ and after the events of TFA:

The Lost Jedi - Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BWlIdbjG60
The Lost Jedi - Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46TVij-rm8g

.Val

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LuckyGungan2001 said:

Michael Ward said:

Mrebo said:

Remind me of the 3PO moments?

Seems like one was about the time that he was saying mutiny was against his programming, but I don’t remember the line. They’re were a couple of others. One might have been when Finn and Poe and Rose were discussing their plan. They were not hilarious, but mildly amusing and not cringe worthy like most. The audience laughed out loud at them which I think made me enjoy them more than if I’d been by myself. Most of the other jokes landed with a thud with the audience when I saw it.

Funny how everyone who dislikes the movie seems to have gone to a showing where the jokes weren’t laughed at. All the jokes (even the dumb ones) were huge hits with the audience both times I saw it.

My theatre was a mixture. Had some people giggling their heads off nearly the entire time, other people laughing during the jokes but other sections of the theatre dead quiet. Myself, I was holding my head in my hands by the time we got to Canto Bight…

I think two jokes / skits resonated with me enough for a muted chuckle but that was it. The thing is, the OT never had me roaring with laughter at any point but when I did laugh quietly or inside my head, it was genuine amusement while still taking in the serious story unfolding. As Mrebo said, the humour was understated and well-incorporated, even in ROTJ. No references that pulled you out of the movie or made you think “this is not SW”.

.Val

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Collipso said:
That’s the point for Poe, that he can now see when a suicide mission is a suicide mission instead of just an opportunity for heroism. The point for Finn was he didn’t care it was a suicide mission or not, as long as he saves the Resistance. The point for Finn isn’t affected because Rose him, seeing as the intention is what matters here.

But I think that, had Rose not saved Finn, he would’ve killed himself and destroyed the weapon and saved everyone/bought them more than enough time. If this was the case, then Rose was very selfish by saving him.

The situation in the end works for every character except for Rose.

ExNihilo said:
I can agree with this assessment

Yeah same. Spot on Collipso, at least for my take on it anyway 😉

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LuckyGungan2001 said:

Funny how everyone who dislikes the movie seems to have gone to a showing where the jokes weren’t laughed at. All the jokes >
(even the dumb ones) were huge hits with the audience both times I saw it.

In addition to the 3PO moments, Luke saying that Jakku was pretty much nowhere got a good laugh. I found that line really funny too. I also recall one woman laughing a couple of times when no one else did because that really stuck out. I wasn’t consciously gauging the audience reaction so maybe some other jokes went over better than I remember, but any time there was a joke that made me cringe (as opposed to just not making me laugh) I remember noticing no one else was laughing.

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DominicCobb said:

Star Wars movie is like other Star Wars movie in superficial ways… tricky RJ thought he could get away with it, but he was sorely mistaken! True Fans know that the only way to judge a movie is on a scale of perceived originality.

You might want to keep your snide, rude side in check otherwise I’ll have to start reporting you for being a dick to other members (me in this case) like we both promised each other 😉

MaestroDavros said:

I often wonder about when an idea or story beat goes from being similar to something done decades earlier, to when it becomes directly appropriated from it. In the case of ROTJ I would argue the similarities are more superficial, since there are shared locations like Tatooine and a Death Star, but what they do with those places is entirely different.

Contrast this to the sequel trilogy, which quite clearly contains many scenes that are similar not only on a superficial level, but directly reference earlier plot points, sometimes with similar events and even dialogue, all to elicit an emotional reaction like: “OMG DO YOU REMEMBER THAT SCENE WHERE ___ HAPPENED IN EPISODE ___?! THEY JUST REFERENCED IT OMG!! OMG!!!” Meanwhile I’m like “I’d rather watch the original version of that scene instead of someone else’s version that doesn’t do anything new”. And that’s just it: I want them to do something different that doesn’t rely on events that already happened. To do otherwise is IMO a poor attempt at fan-service, and just incredibly lazy writing in general. I get it’s hard to come up with ideas in Hollywood films that differ from something else done 40-50 years ago, but please don’t also bring attention and make a big deal of the fact that you are “borrowing” the idea in the first place.

Star Wars isn’t the only franchise with this problem BTW.

Exactly. Thank you for articulating just what my problem is with these movies in regards to constantly just recycling things straight out of the OT. TFA did it in spades but I accepted it on the premise of re-establishing a franchise, setting the tone and playing it safe while Disney was testing the waters with their newly purchased franchise that they want to make a lot of money with. TFA was a decent enough movie anyway with all of the recycled beats aside that I generally enjoyed despite the issues I did have with the movie.

This of course was all on the premise that TLJ didn’t then also do the same thing. This was their chance to take original and new characters and go in a completely new direction and this was a common expectation of the movie which is why one would almost think that RJ has specifically done the opposite, borrowing and mashing together as many pieces of the OT as he could as another way to go against the grain of what was reasonably expected of this movie.

So now that we’ve had ANH 2.0 and TESB/ROTJ remix 2018, what are they going to rely on for Ep9? Or will they finally tread new ground? With what TLJ left on the table though, it feels like it’s leading into ANH 3.0 or ANH/TESB remix 2020…I’ll never know though because as stated, Ep8 is the end of the SW road for me.

canofhumdingers said:

So I just noticed on my second viewing that the falcon gets its (new rectangular) radar dish knocked off while flying through the crystal cave (ROTJ Rehash!! ;-P ).

LOL, the recycling IS getting ridiculous. I don’t even remember that detail but it just lends extra weight to exactly what I am saying.

yotsuya said:

Valheru_84 said:

Having seen TLJ though, I now understand it could never be what I was expecting and that’s because RJ has a compulsion with this movie to do the exact opposite of what is expected. It was a pretty common belief that everyone was expecting TLJ to be the movie that was going to be different, darker and setting new ground after the safe bet that TFA was. So in order to do the opposite he just made another rehash movie (simply disguised a bit better by jumbling it up a bit with the edges blurred) which is what everyone didn’t want. Even the darker themes are subverted by the constant stream of tone killing humour. This movie is literally RJ giving the middle finger to a fandom and it’s expectations, making writing choices solely directed at doing the opposite of what the fandom wanted or expected, no matter the cost to the story and cohesion to the overarching saga and previously established characters and lore.

.Val

This attitude wearies me. Just because you didn’t like it and it wasn’t what you wanted to see does not mean RJ is giving fandom the middle finger. Some fans hate it. I get it. Some fans loved it. You didn’t like the humor. Some people did. You didn’t like how your expectations were turned. Some people loved how it made the story fresh and different. You didn’t like the homages to the past, some loved them. There are obviously very different opinions. But constantly saying that RJ or Disney set out to ruin the franchise is just so… Use your heads. You are part of the billion dollar package that Disney wants on board to buy tickets and merchandise. But they can’t tell the same old story. Heck, they can’t even seem to use anything similar. It sets up a catch-22. Sometimes there is no pleasing people. But at least come up with something that actually makes sense. RJ, Kennedy, or Disney trying to deliberately alienate fans makes no logical sense. It is a tired refrain that has been sung since GL sold to Disney.

If you don’t agree with it, that’s fine. Don’t tell me to adjust my opinion though because you’re tired of hearing it from me and other people with the same feelings.

It’s not that I didn’t get to see what I wanted to see, I went in not really expecting all that much outside of what was setup by TFA and that it would be a darker chapter of the trilogy much like TESB was which is a pretty standard trilogy trope to expect, which it did except for all the tone killing humour that also meant…that it didn’t really. I was actually properly excited to see where TLJ went, I’d watched all the trailers multiple times but not looked into it any further than that (not wanting to spoil anything). I did notice the walkers on a white planet and knew that would be a call back to the battle of Hoth but did not think for a second that nearly the whole movie would be OT re-used and recycled. But everything else looked properly interesting and potentially awesome from the trailer perspective.

What I certainly didn’t expect though was to watch everything I never could have imagined would come to pass in a SW movie and that every expectation built by TFA and even RJ himself was summarily turned on it’s head again and again. Like WTF am I watching? Subversion 101 on how to shock your audience simply because it doesn’t make fucking sense? Because as a self proclaimed SW fan, RJ knows exactly what SW fans would not expect and so he does that just for sensational shock value? What a joke of a film. The entire movie is one sarcastic middle finger to people that feel and understand SW the way I do. He/Disney trod all over what many people loved about SW and then trolled them on it.

I think Disney know exactly what they are doing. They’re riding out the pain of damaging parts of the franchise’s existing fan base in order to reach for what they see is a much broader common audience to make more money and secure future large audiences. Did they have to do it in Ep8 of a 9 part saga though? They’ve just given RJ a whole trilogy to himself that’s completely separate from the main saga and the Jedi/Sith, Rebellion/Empire, Skywalker narrative - the perfect place to explore and take new stories in completely new and fresh directions.

DominicCobb said:
Incorrect yotsuya. If I didn’t like a movie it means the creators hate me. This is simple stuff, don’t get why it’s so hard for you to understand.

Again, can you please reign yourself in. Between you and Frink I’m starting to feel a wee bit harassed…

Frank your Majesty said:

The Ring Theory looks for things that are vaguely similar and tries to describe them in the most crude way, leaving out important details, to make two very different scenes look alike, and putting importance on small details that are smimilar, but insignificant in the movies itself. This rehash argument is just the Ring theory with a twist. Instead of using these constructed superficial “similarities” to show how great the prequels are, they are now a sign of how bad the new movies are. Why can’t angry fans come up with something new? Do they want to alienate other fans? Is Disney paying them as part of their great plan to soft-reboot the whole world?

Thank you Frank “not Frink’s wife” your Majesty (honestly sorry about that, not exactly sure how I came to that conclusion), but this has nothing to do with the Ring Theory that does try to twist things in favour of the PT. The plain similarities and recycling are clearly there in TLJ if you simply look for them.

The talk of being paid of just sounds like more denial tactics such as the whole Rotten Tomatoes audience score rumour. It’s a pretty low insult really and I’d appreciate it not being used again.

Anchorhead said:
By all means feel free to vent, deconstruct, debate, rage, etc. I do it occasionally myself. It’s what makes this forum work. However, maybe give some serious thought to focusing on what you like. The stuff we don’t like about the franchise isn’t going away.

This is what I will be doing once I’m all talked out. I’m not one to continue investing energy into something that’s simply wasting it when it could be put to better uses. For now, it’s helping me to talk about it. Also, my best mate has finally seen the movie so I actually have someone to talk to in person now about it, so I’ll probably peter out in the near future with only the occasional comment here and there from that point onward 😉

From an initial online chat, he said he liked it but was also disappointed and was conflicted on many matters that would take him a few days to let it all sink in and settle. He did also say and I’m quoting here - “empire strikes back + return of the jedi rolled into one haha”

.Val

PS. Sorry for such a lengthy post, but there were many other posts I wanted to get back to that I couldn’t reply to at the time and so I’ve just done it all in one hit. I’m pretty much caught up with the thread again thankfully.

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TV’s Frink said:

Third watch today. Wife insisted. I had a ridiculous lunch of Chicken strips, fries, and a grasshopper milkshake. Felt like a kid again for a few hours.

Still really, really good. 3rd best or 4th best SW movie. Yeah there’s little issues here and there but it’s a movie, to paraphrase Joel, and we all should really just relax.

8.72ish/10

What kind of unholy rating system is that? Did it gain .72 points because of the good food?

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I will say that I feel like the droids and non-human creatures are way underused/misused in this trilogy.

I thought this was something RO did well, even with a new Droid character.

Maybe now that the trinity are all dead (either on screen or off) they will give Chewbacca a bigger role. Or 3PO/R2 will be given to some of the new characters.

The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Hardcore Legend said:

I will say that I feel like the druids and non-human creatures are way underused/misused in this trilogy.

I thought this was something RO did well, even with a new Droid character.

Maybe now that the trinity are all dead (either on screen or off) they will give Chewbacca a bigger role. Or 3PO/R2 will be given to some of the new characters.

I felt the same, but more so I felt C3PO was especially treated badly. When Poe just outright tells C3PO to shut-up, almost hostily, I almost felt insulted myself with how the character was treated. It was the old “be quiet C3PO, we know and it’s not important right now while serious shit is happening” but it was so harsh and actually disrespectful to C3PO that it actually took me out of the movie and made me feel bad for him 😕

On another note - below is a recent interview with Mark where he further confirms in plain speak, that there was never any grand vision or overarching plan to the ST and the way he explains it, it was nearly a race as to who would get their script in first and that they’re just running up to the next director and handing the baton over (except in the case of TLJ Rian just tosses it over his shoulder and goes in a different direction altogether). Mark also again demonstrates how even he is going “wtf is going on, this movie doesn’t work with the other”:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLrzBLH5I2s

I agree with one of the commenters in that many of the interviews I’ve watched of Mark, he often walks a fine line between promoting the film and absolutely shitting on it and should actually be commended for cleverly telling people how badly written his character is without openly saying it and drawing the wrath of Disney and obviously his contract.

.Val

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Oh cool, ignore what Mark Hamill says today, and keep posting what he said yesterday. Cherry picking.

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dahmage said:

Oh cool, ignore what Mark Hamill says today, and keep posting what he said yesterday. Cherry picking.

What did he say today? Got a link? I watch a fair few videos (too many according to Frink) and read plenty of articles as I find them but I haven’t seen and heard everything. However whatever he did say, I don’t see how it would nullify what he plainly says here and in one go. The video is not cut together, it’s one full section of an interview.

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Val if you truly feel people are still harassing and attacking you, you should probably just report it. I don’t think it will get you far, since I don’t see it in the slightest, but that’s probably more likely to do something than just complaining about it here.

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dahmage said:

TV’s Frink said:

Third watch today. Wife insisted. I had a ridiculous lunch of Chicken strips, fries, and a grasshopper milkshake. Felt like a kid again for a few hours.

Still really, really good. 3rd best or 4th best SW movie. Yeah there’s little issues here and there but it’s a movie, to paraphrase Joel, and we all should really just relax.

8.72ish/10

What kind of unholy rating system is that? Did it gain .72 points because of the good food?

It gained 0.31 points for the food.

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LuckyGungan2001 said:

Michael Ward said:

Mrebo said:

Remind me of the 3PO moments?

Seems like one was about the time that he was saying mutiny was against his programming, but I don’t remember the line. They’re were a couple of others. One might have been when Finn and Poe and Rose were discussing their plan. They were not hilarious, but mildly amusing and not cringe worthy like most. The audience laughed out loud at them which I think made me enjoy them more than if I’d been by myself. Most of the other jokes landed with a thud with the audience when I saw it.

Funny how everyone who dislikes the movie seems to have gone to a showing where the jokes weren’t laughed at. All the jokes (even the dumb ones) were huge hits with the audience both times I saw it.

Agreed, I’ve seen it three times and it’s been the same for me.

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Michael Ward said:

Mrebo said:

Remind me of the 3PO moments?

Seems like one was about the time that he was saying mutiny was against his programming, but I don’t remember the line. They’re were a couple of others. One might have been when Finn and Poe and Rose were discussing their plan. They were not hilarious, but mildly amusing and not cringe worthy like most. The audience laughed out loud at them which I think made me enjoy them more than if I’d been by myself. Most of the other jokes landed with a thud with the audience when I saw it.

My favorite was when 3PO is trying to tell Poe the odds and Poe is trying to get him to shut up (which is great because Oscar is such a great actor and really does it in that Oscar way) but 3PO still gets in the last word - “to one.”

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TV’s Frink said:

Michael Ward said:

Mrebo said:

Remind me of the 3PO moments?

Seems like one was about the time that he was saying mutiny was against his programming, but I don’t remember the line. They’re were a couple of others. One might have been when Finn and Poe and Rose were discussing their plan. They were not hilarious, but mildly amusing and not cringe worthy like most. The audience laughed out loud at them which I think made me enjoy them more than if I’d been by myself. Most of the other jokes landed with a thud with the audience when I saw it.

My favorite was when 3PO is trying to tell Poe the odds and Poe is trying to get him to shut up (which is great because
Oscar is such a great actor and really does it in that Oscar way) but 3PO still gets in the last word - “to one.”

I remember that one now. That’s the kind of thing I was talking about. Maybe not hilarious, but entertaining moments.

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TV’s Frink said:

dahmage said:

TV’s Frink said:

Third watch today. Wife insisted. I had a ridiculous lunch of Chicken strips, fries, and a grasshopper milkshake. Felt like a kid again for a few hours.

Still really, really good. 3rd best or 4th best SW movie. Yeah there’s little issues here and there but it’s a movie, to paraphrase Joel, and we all should really just relax.

8.72ish/10

What kind of unholy rating system is that? Did it gain .72 points because of the good food?

It gained 0.31 points for the food.

What is a grasshopper milkshake? Is it really liquified and frozen grasshoppers or did you have to snatch out of the dude’s hand who made it, with ninja like reflexes to which he responded ‘you are now ready to enjoy this tasty beverage, grasshopper’?

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Crème de Cacao, Crème de Menthe, Vanilla Ice Cream, Whipped Cream.

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I guess I can’t confirm but yeah it does.

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The worst part of TLJ is the characters disrespecting 3PO. This is the worst part because never before have the characters in a Star Wars movie disrespected 3PO or told him to shut up.

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DominicCobb said:

The worst part of TLJ is the characters disrespecting 3PO. This is the worst part because never before have the characters in a Star Wars movie disrespected 3PO or told him to shut up.

Canto Bight would have been totally justified if, at the end, when Rose takes the saddle off the fathier, it had turned to her and said, “Rose, I am your fathier.”

It would have been like E.T. meets ESB, very touching and funny.

The blue elephant in the room.

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DominicCobb said:

The worst part of TLJ is the characters disrespecting 3PO. This is the worst part because never before have the characters in a Star Wars movie disrespected 3PO or told him to shut up.

Why are you the way you are?

The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Hardcore Legend said:

DominicCobb said:

The worst part of TLJ is the characters disrespecting 3PO. This is the worst part because never before have the characters in a Star Wars movie disrespected 3PO or told him to shut up.

Why are you the way you are?

I resist the sarcastic impulse so much it hurts and sometimes I just can’t help it. So I can’t really fault Dominic, I get it. I think he mostly meant it in good humor anyway.

So, even though we disagree, this song goes out to Dominic.

The blue elephant in the room.

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Hardcore Legend said:

DominicCobb said:

The worst part of TLJ is the characters disrespecting 3PO. This is the worst part because never before have the characters in a Star Wars movie disrespected 3PO or told him to shut up.

Why are you the way you are?

That’s rude…