The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 123

yhwx said:

DrDre said:

yhwx said:

DrDre said:

NFBisms said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Literally the whole point of Luke showing up and making a scene is inspiring hope across the galaxy.

“The Rebellion is reborn today.”

The Resistance won’t be able to fit on the Falcon for long. This is made pretty clear in the film.

Yeah, but that all depends how the FO will rule the galaxy. It’s not two major organisations backed by various systems like in the OT. In ANH many systems were rebellung against the Empire, because it was oppressing the galaxy. Now it’s hundreds of thousands of troops versus fifty people. If the FO are smart, there won’t be a Resistance ever.

Luke didn’t just inspire little kids with brooms. He inspired everyone who sympathizes with the Resistance’s plight, including, as is implied, their allies in the Outer Rim.

Sympathy that will only last if the FO are an oppressive force. The Resistance have no allies. Their socalled allies in the outer rim didn’t answer.

If the FO set up a benevolent form of government, the Resistance will never rise again, and quickly fade into obscurity. That is as decisive a victory as victories can be. It’s completely up to the FO to drop the ball.

Not technically wrong about how the FO can win, but that’s probably not how it’s going to go lol.

They’re probably going to continue being an evil empire.

I suspect they will. 😃

If the FO continues to act as it does, then some sort of rebellion will win. All oppressive regimes eventually end. Oppression works in the short term but it will eventually lose.

I agree, but it’s an odd way to end the second part of a trilogy. It closely mirrors the end of the PT, where the bad guys win, and the good guys are decimated, and retreat in hopes to fight again one day, which may be decades away.

Isn’t that kind of how ESB ends? I mean, sure, the Resistance in TLJ is in far worse shape than the Rebellion ever was, but as Dom said, they still have the spark that could light the fire — the legend of Luke.

So is IX going to be ANH x2? Because Galaxy-wise, the ending of TLJ was pretty similar to the end of RotS with the promise of a new hope, which could also be phrased “the spark that will light the fire”. There will likely be a time gap between TLJ and IX. So we’re going to have the galactical situation of ANH x2. Is that right?

Collipso said:

yhwx said:

DrDre said:

yhwx said:

DrDre said:

NFBisms said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Literally the whole point of Luke showing up and making a scene is inspiring hope across the galaxy.

“The Rebellion is reborn today.”

The Resistance won’t be able to fit on the Falcon for long. This is made pretty clear in the film.

Yeah, but that all depends how the FO will rule the galaxy. It’s not two major organisations backed by various systems like in the OT. In ANH many systems were rebellung against the Empire, because it was oppressing the galaxy. Now it’s hundreds of thousands of troops versus fifty people. If the FO are smart, there won’t be a Resistance ever.

Luke didn’t just inspire little kids with brooms. He inspired everyone who sympathizes with the Resistance’s plight, including, as is implied, their allies in the Outer Rim.

Sympathy that will only last if the FO are an oppressive force. The Resistance have no allies. Their socalled allies in the outer rim didn’t answer.

If the FO set up a benevolent form of government, the Resistance will never rise again, and quickly fade into obscurity. That is as decisive a victory as victories can be. It’s completely up to the FO to drop the ball.

Not technically wrong about how the FO can win, but that’s probably not how it’s going to go lol.

They’re probably going to continue being an evil empire.

I suspect they will. 😃

If the FO continues to act as it does, then some sort of rebellion will win. All oppressive regimes eventually end. Oppression works in the short term but it will eventually lose.

I agree, but it’s an odd way to end the second part of a trilogy. It closely mirrors the end of the PT, where the bad guys win, and the good guys are decimated, and retreat in hopes to fight again one day, which may be decades away.

Isn’t that kind of how ESB ends? I mean, sure, the Resistance in TLJ is in far worse shape than the Rebellion ever was, but as Dom said, they still have the spark that could light the fire — the legend of Luke.

So is IX going to be ANH x2? Because Galaxy-wise, the ending of TLJ was pretty similar to the end of RotS with the promise of a new hope, which could also be phrased “the spark that will light the fire”. There will likely be a time gap between TLJ and IX. So we’re going to have the galactical situation of ANH x2. Is that right?

I think you’re making the mistake of assuming things that ought not be assumed.

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

yhwx said:

DrDre said:

yhwx said:

DrDre said:

NFBisms said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Literally the whole point of Luke showing up and making a scene is inspiring hope across the galaxy.

“The Rebellion is reborn today.”

The Resistance won’t be able to fit on the Falcon for long. This is made pretty clear in the film.

Yeah, but that all depends how the FO will rule the galaxy. It’s not two major organisations backed by various systems like in the OT. In ANH many systems were rebellung against the Empire, because it was oppressing the galaxy. Now it’s hundreds of thousands of troops versus fifty people. If the FO are smart, there won’t be a Resistance ever.

Luke didn’t just inspire little kids with brooms. He inspired everyone who sympathizes with the Resistance’s plight, including, as is implied, their allies in the Outer Rim.

Sympathy that will only last if the FO are an oppressive force. The Resistance have no allies. Their socalled allies in the outer rim didn’t answer.

If the FO set up a benevolent form of government, the Resistance will never rise again, and quickly fade into obscurity. That is as decisive a victory as victories can be. It’s completely up to the FO to drop the ball.

Not technically wrong about how the FO can win, but that’s probably not how it’s going to go lol.

They’re probably going to continue being an evil empire.

I suspect they will. 😃

If the FO continues to act as it does, then some sort of rebellion will win. All oppressive regimes eventually end. Oppression works in the short term but it will eventually lose.

I agree, but it’s an odd way to end the second part of a trilogy. It closely mirrors the end of the PT, where the bad guys win, and the good guys are decimated, and retreat in hopes to fight again one day, which may be decades away.

Isn’t that kind of how ESB ends? I mean, sure, the Resistance in TLJ is in far worse shape than the Rebellion ever was, but as Dom said, they still have the spark that could light the fire — the legend of Luke.

So is IX going to be ANH x2? Because Galaxy-wise, the ending of TLJ was pretty similar to the end of RotS with the promise of a new hope, which could also be phrased “the spark that will light the fire”. There will likely be a time gap between TLJ and IX. So we’re going to have the galactical situation of ANH x2. Is that right?

I think you’re making the mistake of assuming things that ought not be assumed.

I shall not assume them anymore.

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Literally the whole point of Luke showing up and making a scene is inspiring hope across the galaxy.

“The Rebellion is reborn today.”

The Resistance won’t be able to fit on the Falcon for long. This is made pretty clear in the film.

Yeah, but that all depends how the FO will rule the galaxy. It’s not two major organisations backed by various systems like in the OT. In ANH many systems were rebellung against the Empire, because it was oppressing the galaxy. Now it’s hundreds of thousands of troops versus fifty people. If the FO are smart, there won’t be a Resistance ever.

Luke didn’t just inspire little kids with brooms. He inspired everyone who sympathizes with the Resistance’s plight, including, as is implied, their allies in the Outer Rim.

Sympathy that will only last if the FO are an oppressive force. The Resistance have no allies. Their socalled allies in the outer rim didn’t answer.

If the FO set up a benevolent form of government, the Resistance will never rise again, and quickly fade into obscurity. That is as decisive a victory as victories can be. It’s completely up to the FO to drop the ball.

First of all, the FO does not control the galaxy yet. They are in the process of picking up the pieces during the course of TLJ, that is why the quest for Luke is so dire (Rey states this outright in the film). Their ruling style is irrelevant. They are a fascist regime that favors the wealthy and corrupt. The only way the gain power is by leveling whole communities. The goal is to stop them before they can take full control.

And the allies didn’t answer because “the spark has gone out.” Luke reignited the spark. That’s literally the whole point of the climax.

According to the info from the film, the FO will take full control in weeks. That seems a very short time frame for our miniscule group of rebels.

But don’t you understand that it’s not just the “minuscule” group anymore by the end because of Luke?

Rebellions require organisation, a base of operations, personel, extensive training, equipment, and financial resources to support all of the previous. Boys with brooms ain’t gonna cut it. That’s an other thing TLJ threw out of the window, a sense of realism in conflicts, and a sense of scale and time. The FO almost instanteneously wiped out the New Republic at the start of TLJ, and now the Rebellion has to be rebuilt from scratch, much like at the end of ROTS. It took the Alliance two decades to build their organisation between the PT and the OT, but I’m sure by episode IX there will be a full fledged Rebel Alliance ready to resume control of the galaxy, where if the film adhered to previous Star Wars continuity, Rey should be looking for the next new hope.

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

yhwx said:

DrDre said:

yhwx said:

DrDre said:

NFBisms said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Literally the whole point of Luke showing up and making a scene is inspiring hope across the galaxy.

“The Rebellion is reborn today.”

The Resistance won’t be able to fit on the Falcon for long. This is made pretty clear in the film.

Yeah, but that all depends how the FO will rule the galaxy. It’s not two major organisations backed by various systems like in the OT. In ANH many systems were rebellung against the Empire, because it was oppressing the galaxy. Now it’s hundreds of thousands of troops versus fifty people. If the FO are smart, there won’t be a Resistance ever.

Luke didn’t just inspire little kids with brooms. He inspired everyone who sympathizes with the Resistance’s plight, including, as is implied, their allies in the Outer Rim.

Sympathy that will only last if the FO are an oppressive force. The Resistance have no allies. Their socalled allies in the outer rim didn’t answer.

If the FO set up a benevolent form of government, the Resistance will never rise again, and quickly fade into obscurity. That is as decisive a victory as victories can be. It’s completely up to the FO to drop the ball.

Not technically wrong about how the FO can win, but that’s probably not how it’s going to go lol.

They’re probably going to continue being an evil empire.

I suspect they will. 😃

If the FO continues to act as it does, then some sort of rebellion will win. All oppressive regimes eventually end. Oppression works in the short term but it will eventually lose.

I agree, but it’s an odd way to end the second part of a trilogy. It closely mirrors the end of the PT, where the bad guys win, and the good guys are decimated, and retreat in hopes to fight again one day, which may be decades away.

Isn’t that kind of how ESB ends? I mean, sure, the Resistance in TLJ is in far worse shape than the Rebellion ever was, but as Dom said, they still have the spark that could light the fire — the legend of Luke.

So is IX going to be ANH x2? Because Galaxy-wise, the ending of TLJ was pretty similar to the end of RotS with the promise of a new hope, which could also be phrased “the spark that will light the fire”. There will likely be a time gap between TLJ and IX. So we’re going to have the galactical situation of ANH x2. Is that right?

I think you’re making the mistake of assuming things that ought not be assumed.

I shall not assume them anymore.

I just feel like people are speculating about what IX can and can’t do based solely on what previous films it could hypothetically emulate.

“TLJ ended things like ROTS, so the next one must be like ANH.”
“TLJ was basically an ROTJ-esque conclusion, so there’s no way to go”

The truth is TLJ ended things on it’s own terms. Just because Snoke and the OT trio are dead doesn’t mean there’s nothing left to tell. Just because Kylo Ren is in charge doesn’t mean his story is over - just because Rey can use the force doesn’t mean her’s is over either.

Thing is, it isn’t exactly like ROTS or ESB or ROTJ. But all that means is that IX can go any direction. People are thinking too small about the possibilities (“all that’s left is for Kylo to die”). There’s so much more (that we haven’t even thought of).

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Literally the whole point of Luke showing up and making a scene is inspiring hope across the galaxy.

“The Rebellion is reborn today.”

The Resistance won’t be able to fit on the Falcon for long. This is made pretty clear in the film.

Yeah, but that all depends how the FO will rule the galaxy. It’s not two major organisations backed by various systems like in the OT. In ANH many systems were rebellung against the Empire, because it was oppressing the galaxy. Now it’s hundreds of thousands of troops versus fifty people. If the FO are smart, there won’t be a Resistance ever.

Luke didn’t just inspire little kids with brooms. He inspired everyone who sympathizes with the Resistance’s plight, including, as is implied, their allies in the Outer Rim.

Sympathy that will only last if the FO are an oppressive force. The Resistance have no allies. Their socalled allies in the outer rim didn’t answer.

If the FO set up a benevolent form of government, the Resistance will never rise again, and quickly fade into obscurity. That is as decisive a victory as victories can be. It’s completely up to the FO to drop the ball.

First of all, the FO does not control the galaxy yet. They are in the process of picking up the pieces during the course of TLJ, that is why the quest for Luke is so dire (Rey states this outright in the film). Their ruling style is irrelevant. They are a fascist regime that favors the wealthy and corrupt. The only way the gain power is by leveling whole communities. The goal is to stop them before they can take full control.

And the allies didn’t answer because “the spark has gone out.” Luke reignited the spark. That’s literally the whole point of the climax.

According to the info from the film, the FO will take full control in weeks. That seems a very short time frame for our miniscule group of rebels.

But don’t you understand that it’s not just the “minuscule” group anymore by the end because of Luke?

Rebellions require organisation, a base of operations, personel, extensive training, equipment, and financial resources to support all of the previous. Boys with brooms ain’t gonna cut it. That’s an other thing TLJ threw out of the window, a sense of realism in conflicts, and a sense of scale and time. The FO almost instanteneously wiped out the New Republic at the start of FO, and now the Rebellion has to be rebuild from scratch, much like at the end of ROTS. It took the Alliance two decades to build their organisation between the PT and the OT, but I’m sure by episode IX there will be a full fledged Rebel Alliance ready to resume control of the galaxy, where if the film adhered to previous Star Wars continuity, Rey should be looking for the next new hope.

This conversation is literally going in circles.

So here’s what I said a few posts ago:

Luke didn’t just inspire little kids with brooms. He inspired everyone who sympathizes with the Resistance’s plight, including, as is implied, their allies in the Outer Rim.

Mrebo said:

Ryan said:

One thing I didn’t like was you have Return of the Jedi. And then a couple of movies later you have The Last Jedi with apparently Luke being the last Jedi. It kind of makes the “Return” rather pointless.

Ah, but remember Yoda’s words in ROTJ, “Luke, when gone am I… the last of the Jedi will you be.”

He was being totally serious and literal.

Yes, last of the Jedi in that moment as Obi-Wan had already died and Yoda was dying. But after watching ROTJ with it being called “Return of the Jedi”. I always took that to mean that the Jedi were back at the end of the movie. i.e. the Jedi were previously hunted down and nearly all killed pre-Episode IV. And Luke caused the death of Vader and the Emperor and then Luke became a “new” Jedi.

And so I had always imagined that after ROTJ, that the Jedi were back. i.e. Luke trains new Jedi, plus they’re not being hunted down anymore, etc.

Collipso said:

Of course the rebels will win. Episode VIII had some “refreshing twists” but ultimately the story it sets up is literally the one where the outcome is incredibly predictable for IX

• First Order loses.
• Kylo Ren dies/is turned (probably dies not to be called RotJ rehash).

It’ll be a pleasant surprise if they come up with something really new, and I’d be impressed that they had the guts to do something new, and that they managed to think of something new.

It would be interesting if in IX that Kylo wins and kills Rey and destroys the Resistance and becomes a new Sith lord or something.

I’m seeing that there are pre-orders available for 4K versions of The Last Jedi. I plan on getting the 4K version even though I don’t have a 4K player or TV. But it also comes with a Blu-Ray disc, so I can watch that. And then already have the 4K version when I get a 4K TV and player down the road.

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Literally the whole point of Luke showing up and making a scene is inspiring hope across the galaxy.

“The Rebellion is reborn today.”

The Resistance won’t be able to fit on the Falcon for long. This is made pretty clear in the film.

Yeah, but that all depends how the FO will rule the galaxy. It’s not two major organisations backed by various systems like in the OT. In ANH many systems were rebellung against the Empire, because it was oppressing the galaxy. Now it’s hundreds of thousands of troops versus fifty people. If the FO are smart, there won’t be a Resistance ever.

Luke didn’t just inspire little kids with brooms. He inspired everyone who sympathizes with the Resistance’s plight, including, as is implied, their allies in the Outer Rim.

Sympathy that will only last if the FO are an oppressive force. The Resistance have no allies. Their socalled allies in the outer rim didn’t answer.

If the FO set up a benevolent form of government, the Resistance will never rise again, and quickly fade into obscurity. That is as decisive a victory as victories can be. It’s completely up to the FO to drop the ball.

First of all, the FO does not control the galaxy yet. They are in the process of picking up the pieces during the course of TLJ, that is why the quest for Luke is so dire (Rey states this outright in the film). Their ruling style is irrelevant. They are a fascist regime that favors the wealthy and corrupt. The only way the gain power is by leveling whole communities. The goal is to stop them before they can take full control.

And the allies didn’t answer because “the spark has gone out.” Luke reignited the spark. That’s literally the whole point of the climax.

According to the info from the film, the FO will take full control in weeks. That seems a very short time frame for our miniscule group of rebels.

But don’t you understand that it’s not just the “minuscule” group anymore by the end because of Luke?

Rebellions require organisation, a base of operations, personel, extensive training, equipment, and financial resources to support all of the previous. Boys with brooms ain’t gonna cut it. That’s an other thing TLJ threw out of the window, a sense of realism in conflicts, and a sense of scale and time. The FO almost instanteneously wiped out the New Republic at the start of FO, and now the Rebellion has to be rebuild from scratch, much like at the end of ROTS. It took the Alliance two decades to build their organisation between the PT and the OT, but I’m sure by episode IX there will be a full fledged Rebel Alliance ready to resume control of the galaxy, where if the film adhered to previous Star Wars continuity, Rey should be looking for the next new hope.

Even at it’s height, the rebellion was not always in unison. Leia’s group is almost wiped out. The other groups may have just been in fear that they weren’t up to the task. It doesn’t mean they won’t help later.

And your concept of Luke is off. ROTJ starts with him accepting that Vader is his father. The scene was cut, but is shows us where he was at when the movie starts. He isn’t shaken to the core about it. At the end of TESB he is upset that Ben didn’t tell him, not over the revelation. In ROTJ he then goes on to carry out a plan to free Han, rejoin the Alliance, land on Endor, help get the strike force in position until he realizes Vader is there and he is endangering the mission. Even his surrender is done with self assuredness and confidence. The danger to his friends brings out his attacks. But even then, everything he does works. ROTJ is a great success for Luke.

Then he goes to rebuild the Jedi order and things go south. Nothing goes his way. How would the Luke of the OT react? That is where we differ. I feel that the Luke we see in ROTJ is confident and the events TFA and TLJ describe would destroy that confidence and lead to the Luke we see in TLJ. It is the same dejection we see in TESB, but older and grumpier and greatly magnified. I don’t know why you think that side won’t come out again. Human nature says it will. That ultimately is what makes Star Wars compelling - the human side of these archtypes. I am not ignoring ROTJ, but neither am I ignoring the rest of Luke’s journey, which you are by focusing on where he was in ROTJ. I’m not ignoring it as much as saying it didn’t last and he reverted to his older personality traits.

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Literally the whole point of Luke showing up and making a scene is inspiring hope across the galaxy.

“The Rebellion is reborn today.”

The Resistance won’t be able to fit on the Falcon for long. This is made pretty clear in the film.

Yeah, but that all depends how the FO will rule the galaxy. It’s not two major organisations backed by various systems like in the OT. In ANH many systems were rebellung against the Empire, because it was oppressing the galaxy. Now it’s hundreds of thousands of troops versus fifty people. If the FO are smart, there won’t be a Resistance ever.

Luke didn’t just inspire little kids with brooms. He inspired everyone who sympathizes with the Resistance’s plight, including, as is implied, their allies in the Outer Rim.

Sympathy that will only last if the FO are an oppressive force. The Resistance have no allies. Their socalled allies in the outer rim didn’t answer.

If the FO set up a benevolent form of government, the Resistance will never rise again, and quickly fade into obscurity. That is as decisive a victory as victories can be. It’s completely up to the FO to drop the ball.

First of all, the FO does not control the galaxy yet. They are in the process of picking up the pieces during the course of TLJ, that is why the quest for Luke is so dire (Rey states this outright in the film). Their ruling style is irrelevant. They are a fascist regime that favors the wealthy and corrupt. The only way the gain power is by leveling whole communities. The goal is to stop them before they can take full control.

And the allies didn’t answer because “the spark has gone out.” Luke reignited the spark. That’s literally the whole point of the climax.

According to the info from the film, the FO will take full control in weeks. That seems a very short time frame for our miniscule group of rebels.

But don’t you understand that it’s not just the “minuscule” group anymore by the end because of Luke?

The thing is, who else was there to witness Jake’s actions? No one except the FO and the remaining 20 or so reliance / rebel fighters left at the end. Who is going to listen to and believe them when no one took heed in TFA when they were thousands strong and trying to warn of an imminent threat to the entire New Republic who were only there in the first place because of the efforts of Leia, Han, Luke and the rebellion? If no one came to their aid then or after the destruction of those 5 planets OR after they broadcast a call for help near the end of TLJ in the aftermath of what the FO clearly represent for the future of the Galaxy, who the hell are going to help them in IX when they are a handful of rugged people on a single small ship?

.Val

NFBisms said:
Honestly? I wasn’t even talking really about what you’re ranting about here…

I’m not ranting thank you.

NFBisms said:
…but if you want my thoughts, a lot of what you have to say - the entire premise of it, actually - is too presumptive about what TLJ was doing or trying to say. We don’t have a hard and fast answer about the nature of Rey’s or broom boy’s force sensitivity, so I personally haven’t really been touching that. I have my own ideas, but it’s just speculation and not anything the movies explicitly say at all. I don’t actually think TLJ was saying that the force works the way you described, though.

Too presumptive? Snoke, the most powerful force user we’ve ever seen who’s character hints at having been around for a long, long time, probably influencing events before even the PT (we know at least long enough to see the rise and fall of the Empire) and who seems to have an immense knowledge of the force to the extent he can perform force-skype calls between other force users light years apart without them realising it, proclaims that as Kylo has been increasing in strength, so would his equal opponent in the light side appear. This was a clear explanation to the audience in response to all the flak Rey got in TFA for advancing in her force use too quickly and easily. Jake also only a little earlier in the movie explains the balance in the force which now in retrospect seems like it’s also priming us for the explanation Snoke gives. I’m only going off what TLJ has served up in regards to how the force apparently works now. Other people have also picked up on this, asking why then had Snoke’s opposite equal in the force not shown up from the light side? Maybe that is now Luke, but what about during the events of the OT?

NFBisms said:
But yes, if that (ending the Jedi = good idea) is what is supposedly going through Luke or Jake’s mind, it is at odds with the idea that the force naturally balances itself. The thing is - the movie goes out of it’s way to tell us Luke was wrong to do and think what he did. So. There you go. Again, though. I don’t think the force works the way you think it does.

The movie would also have us think that Jake was that powerful and in touch with the force that he understands at its root level the source and relationship that the force shares with everything in the universe which causes him to reject the dogma of the Jedi teachings and enables him to astro project himself and objects even when he’s not present (the dice) across light years which is not that dissimilar to Snoke’s force-skype calls and speaks to the same level of mastery and knowledge of the force. So why would Luke not also know about this fact of the force self balancing? That his self sacrifice would essentially be for nothing, lending more weight to the fact the reasons for his actions are inherently flawed regardless of conflicts with his OT character and that he should have just gone to confront Kylo in person, if at the very least to still just buy the resistance fighters time to flee and then fade away into the force as Kylo is about to strike, like Obi-wan does as Vader strikes. They actually set this scene up just like that to create this expectation but because the entire movie is built on subverting expectations, at the very last second RJ yanks the rug with Jake instead pulling a matrix move and shortly after is revealed to be an astro projection. Then he fades away into the force anyway as a double subvert.

NFBisms said:
There’s nothing to prove definitively that it’s random magic.

No there’s nothing 100% definitive but there’s not much missing to make it so.

NFBisms said:
FWIW I personally think Lucasfilm not having an overarching plan for the trilogy is fine, because it ensured we got at least one actual movie and not just run-of-mill product flicks. I liked that Johnson was able to imprint more of himself onto TLJ and that it was allowed to be more of a character study than a “can’t you wait for even more SW buy your tickets now1!1!” kind of movie. I know a lot of people wanted something else than what we got, but characters/themes are right up my alley, and I’m ok with it.

In regards to an overarching plan - I’m fine for directors to take trilogy movies in unexpected ways but they still need to maintain some logical connection to the main story arcs it is part of and stay within the rules already established by previous movies or at most, expand upon them. Not fundamentally change them.

Also when I go to see a SW movie, I’d like to see a SW movie - not a RJ imprinted fan film of SW.

.Val

SilverWook said:

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Literally the whole point of Luke showing up and making a scene is inspiring hope across the galaxy.

“The Rebellion is reborn today.”

The Resistance won’t be able to fit on the Falcon for long. This is made pretty clear in the film.

Yeah, but that all depends how the FO will rule the galaxy. It’s not two major organisations backed by various systems like in the OT. In ANH many systems were rebellung against the Empire, because it was oppressing the galaxy. Now it’s hundreds of thousands of troops versus fifty people. If the FO are smart, there won’t be a Resistance ever.

Luke didn’t just inspire little kids with brooms. He inspired everyone who sympathizes with the Resistance’s plight, including, as is implied, their allies in the Outer Rim.

Sympathy that will only last if the FO are an oppressive force. The Resistance have no allies. Their socalled allies in the outer rim didn’t answer.

If the FO set up a benevolent form of government, the Resistance will never rise again, and quickly fade into obscurity. That is as decisive a victory as victories can be. It’s completely up to the FO to drop the ball.

First of all, the FO does not control the galaxy yet. They are in the process of picking up the pieces during the course of TLJ, that is why the quest for Luke is so dire (Rey states this outright in the film). Their ruling style is irrelevant. They are a fascist regime that favors the wealthy and corrupt. The only way the gain power is by leveling whole communities. The goal is to stop them before they can take full control.

And the allies didn’t answer because “the spark has gone out.” Luke reignited the spark. That’s literally the whole point of the climax.

According to the info from the film, the FO will take full control in weeks. That seems a very short time frame for our miniscule group of rebels.

But don’t you understand that it’s not just the “minuscule” group anymore by the end because of Luke?

The thing is, who else was there to witness Jake’s actions? No one except the FO and the remaining 20 or so reliance / rebel fighters left at the end. Who is going to listen to and believe them when no one took heed in TFA when they were thousands strong and trying to warn of an imminent threat to the entire New Republic who were only there in the first place because of the efforts of Leia, Han, Luke and the rebellion? If no one came to their aid then or after the destruction of those 5 planets OR after they broadcast a call for help near the end of TLJ in the aftermath of what the FO clearly represent for the future of the Galaxy, who the hell are going to help them in IX when they are a handful of rugged people on a single small ship?

.Val

The scuttlebutt about what Luke did is going to spread through the ranks of the FO like wildfire.
Jake who? 😉

Like it spread through the ranks of the Empire? With the Resistance becoming the Rebels again (can’t rightly call them the Rebel ‘Alliance’ currently 😉 ) and the FO as good as becoming the Empire again, I don’t see how it is going to be any different. You could point at Finn, but he was one in at least 10s of thousands and with TLJ dropping everything that TFA setup, I wouldn’t count on the possibility of storm troopers having a conscious and able to defect being carried through.

Also the FO being the prime and nearly only method of spreading the news of Jake en masse doesn’t bode well for the Rebels and not something to base a respectable plot on for the next movie.

Zak fett said:

SilverWook said:

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Literally the whole point of Luke showing up and making a scene is inspiring hope across the galaxy.

“The Rebellion is reborn today.”

The Resistance won’t be able to fit on the Falcon for long. This is made pretty clear in the film.

Yeah, but that all depends how the FO will rule the galaxy. It’s not two major organisations backed by various systems like in the OT. In ANH many systems were rebellung against the Empire, because it was oppressing the galaxy. Now it’s hundreds of thousands of troops versus fifty people. If the FO are smart, there won’t be a Resistance ever.

Luke didn’t just inspire little kids with brooms. He inspired everyone who sympathizes with the Resistance’s plight, including, as is implied, their allies in the Outer Rim.

Sympathy that will only last if the FO are an oppressive force. The Resistance have no allies. Their socalled allies in the outer rim didn’t answer.

If the FO set up a benevolent form of government, the Resistance will never rise again, and quickly fade into obscurity. That is as decisive a victory as victories can be. It’s completely up to the FO to drop the ball.

First of all, the FO does not control the galaxy yet. They are in the process of picking up the pieces during the course of TLJ, that is why the quest for Luke is so dire (Rey states this outright in the film). Their ruling style is irrelevant. They are a fascist regime that favors the wealthy and corrupt. The only way the gain power is by leveling whole communities. The goal is to stop them before they can take full control.

And the allies didn’t answer because “the spark has gone out.” Luke reignited the spark. That’s literally the whole point of the climax.

According to the info from the film, the FO will take full control in weeks. That seems a very short time frame for our miniscule group of rebels.

But don’t you understand that it’s not just the “minuscule” group anymore by the end because of Luke?

The thing is, who else was there to witness Jake’s actions? No one except the FO and the remaining 20 or so reliance / rebel fighters left at the end. Who is going to listen to and believe them when no one took heed in TFA when they were thousands strong and trying to warn of an imminent threat to the entire New Republic who were only there in the first place because of the efforts of Leia, Han, Luke and the rebellion? If no one came to their aid then or after the destruction of those 5 planets OR after they broadcast a call for help near the end of TLJ in the aftermath of what the FO clearly represent for the future of the Galaxy, who the hell are going to help them in IX when they are a handful of rugged people on a single small ship?

.Val

The scuttlebutt about what Luke did is going to spread through the ranks of the FO like wildfire.
Jake who? 😉

So from here ren probably knows that luke is dead so that just gives The FO and advantage because Han is dead,Luke is dead and Rey is untrained.Unless the rebellion have a plan of where to go, they don’t appear to have a chance.

I get exactly what you mean except the fact that Rey is untrained bears little logical weight in Disney’s SW as to the chances of the Rebels somehow coming out of top of the FO. If anything, they are entirely leaning and relying on Rey to get them out of this predicament and completely turns things around. In a little under a 2-3 weeks Rey has gone from a scrap collector to the best chance of the newly re-formed gang of 20 rebels and somehow it seems the only possibility the next film has to take the story forward.

SilverWook said:

A lot of FO guys witnessed what Luke did. (More than the troopers who saw Obi Wan vanish, but those guys all got shot.) Gossip spreads pretty fast. The FO will find that a lot harder to spin doctor than rumors of a lone defector.

Will they care though? And even if they did, will that necessarily spread from there throughout the entire galaxy? Even if it does, that seems a pretty weak premise to rely on for the sole reason why the Rebel Alliance proper is able to reform. So the Resistance couldn’t convince other systems and factions to support their cause, especially after the atrocities the FO commits in TFA but somehow word of Jake Skywalker via the mouth of his enemies is supposed to somehow win people to the cause of the Rebellion? And this is the Luke Skywalker that in TFA is relegated to myth and legend like Han and the other characters are?

Sorry but I don’t buy TLJ’s depiction of hope renewed for the galaxy as none of it makes sense or has enough impact to make it believable.

SilverWook said:

So, everybody has forgotten or didn’t see the blink and you’ll miss it shot of those ancient Jedi books stashed away on the Falcon? Rey may not have a living trainer, but she’s got the instruction manuals.

I vaguely recall a scene of her closing a drawer I think aboard the Falcon with I think books or paper of some sort inside though I didn’t take particular notice of the drawer contents. I do understand though that this is the shot you speak of and do remember it to an extent.

I’d hardly call them instruction manuals though. As I understood it, they were at most dogmatic preachings, stories and histories of the first Jedis, not a step by step instruction manual on how to master the force.